Detroit Pistons offseason

[vege]

I know this has been discussed before, but I've added some information (feel free to check everything I said, don't accept it as the truth) and some guidelines.

Detroit has 10 wins this season, and they're expected to bring back 8 rotation guys they allegedly like

Jalen Duren
Isaiah Stewart
Simone Fontecchio
Ausar Thompson
Quentin Grimes
Jaden Ivey
Cade Cunningham
Marcus Sasser

Cade has been great and he has shown he could be the franchise player (his defense has been disgusting tho). He has great chemistry with Jalen Duren.

However, Detroit's "Core 5" have putrid advanced numbers playing together. Duren/Stewart/Ausar/Ivey/Cade are really bad together,

but if you replace one of them (any of Duren/Stewart/Ausar) with Fontecchio, the advanced stats are good.

Ausar Thompson has been shooting 3's in the low 30's for the past 6 games or so, much better than the 18% he was shooting previously.

Cade has been shooting almost 50% from 3 recently and has been north of 40% since Killian Hayes has not been his backcourt partner.

Simone Fontecchio has been shooting 40% from 3 since he was traded to Detroit.

Marcus Sasser is inconsistent, but he has been shooting close to 40% from 3 as a rookie.

Monty Williams has been doing a much better job handling the rotation recently. He is starting to stagger Cade and Ivey, Stewart and Duren.

There are games where Detroit has been shooting in the 20's% from 3 as a team recently and the defense has been very bad.

Cade/Ivey and Fontecchio are terrible defenders and Duren is not very good. Sasser and Grimes are ok, Stewart and Ausar are well above average as defenders.

So let's say, Tom Gores fire Troy Weaver, and hire YOU to be the new GM of the Detroit Pistons, and you have to bring those 8 guys back, but you still have a top 6 pick and 60 million in cap space to do something to improve the team.

What would you do? The expectations are for the team to win at least 30 games.

[aguiar95]

IMO Stewart and Ivey are the odd man out in the starting lineup. Go get Tobias in FA and draft BPA (Let's say Risacher is there). Start Grimes in for Ivey (for defensive purposes) and you have:

Cade/Sasser
Grimes/Ivey
Thompson/Risacher/Fontecchio
Harris/Stewart
Duren/Wiseman

Ideally you find a trade for a starting SG (3nD) next to Cade using Ivey/Stewart, but I couldn't find one.

[Mike lorenzo]

I think they need to improve now, they can't afford another terrible year...I would trade the pick for Lauri Markkanen, even add a small asset if necessary and pay Miles Bridges

Cade/Sasser
Grimes/Ivey
Bridges /Thompson
Lauri/Fontecchio
Stewart/Duren

[tmorgan]

I think they need to improve now, they can't afford another terrible year...I would trade the pick for Lauri Markkanen, even add a small asset if necessary and pay Miles Bridges

Cade/Sasser
Grimes/Ivey
Bridges /Thompson
Lauri/Fontecchio
Stewart/Duren

I’m pretty sure if we could trade our pick for Lauri we would, and i’m even more sure we can’t.

[vege]

IMO Stewart and Ivey are the odd man out in the starting lineup. Go get Tobias in FA and draft BPA (Let's say Risacher is there). Start Grimes in for Ivey (for defensive purposes) and you have:

Cade/Sasser
Grimes/Ivey
Thompson/Risacher/Fontecchio
Harris/Stewart
Duren/Wiseman

Ideally you find a trade for a starting SG (3nD) next to Cade using Ivey/Stewart, but I couldn't find one.

Wiseman is very bad. Stewart would be the backup 5 and Fontecchio the backup 4, but other than that I don't hate it, I wish we could get someone better than Tobias, especially for what he is going to cost.

Detroit's beat writter said he will cost something around 35 million per year, but at least that lineup can play defense and spread the floor, and be functional on both sides of the floor, which is a huge upgrade over what we've been watching this year.

The problem is, Monty clearly lost the locker room when he benched Ivey, so I don't think he will do it again, but he should.

[tmorgan]

In my opinion, Ivey should be dealt. Kid has electric speed and good offensive talent, but his defense remains suspect, the fit with Cade is clunky, and he’s clearly not seeing eye to eye with Monty. I’d dump the coach first, but I don’t think that’s going to happen.

I mentioned above that Utah won’t trade Markkanen for our top 5 pick. I’d be willing to consider Ivey AND our top 5 pick. If it’s high enough, Utah might consider that and then move Sexton for additional value and really tank next year.

Markkanen would do wonders for Cade. He’s basically a bigger, younger Bojan that is average instead of terrible on defense. Then you don’t need to spend on Tobias and still have a lot of money to work with.

Cade/Sasser
Grimes
Thompson/Fontecchio
Markkanen
Duren/Stewart

This is then your starting point, with money to spend on a SG (starter or backup, depending on Grimes), another wing, and the other five roster spots that likely won’t play regular minutes. That looks like a solid team with room to grow to me.

[GreekAlex]

In my opinion, Ivey should be dealt. Kid has electric speed and good offensive talent, but his defense remains suspect, the fit with Cade is clunky, and he’s clearly not seeing eye to eye with Monty. I’d dump the coach first, but I don’t think that’s going to happen.

I mentioned above that Utah won’t trade Markkanen for our top 5 pick. I’d be willing to consider Ivey AND our top 5 pick. If it’s high enough, Utah might consider that and then move Sexton for additional value and really tank next year.

Markkanen would do wonders for Cade. He’s basically a bigger, younger Bojan that is average instead of terrible on defense. Then you don’t need to spend on Tobias and still have a lot of money to work with.

Cade/Sasser
Grimes
Thompson/Fontecchio
Markkanen
Duren/Stewart

This is then your starting point, with money to spend on a SG (starter or backup, depending on Grimes), another wing, and the other five roster spots that likely won’t play regular minutes. That looks like a solid team with room to grow to me.

I kind of see the opposite for the Cade/Ivey pairing.

Cade and Ivey just had their best game together.

Developing chemistry takes time and it’s not like they’ve had a ton of game reps together with Cade missing so much of last season. I think that they’re just starting to click and that’s in part because Monty is just now figuring out how to maximize their talents together. FYI, they haven’t even played 60 games together to date (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jaden-ivey-stats-with-cade-cunningham).

As far as Utah, I’m confident that regardless what Utah poster may say, Ainge would trade Lauri for the top pick if he’s enamored with one of the top prospects.

The caveat is that we don’t know where the pick will be and he’s way more likely to trade Lauri for the first or second overall pick vs the 5th or 6th.

That being said, as a Pistons fan, I’d only deal the pick to Utah if there’s an extension in place for Lauri. It would be tremendously foolish and short sighted to blow an asset like that for 1 season left under contract of Markkanen.

[tmorgan]

I think the timeline for a R&E for Lauri doesn’t work pre-draft.

[GreekAlex]

I think the timeline for a R&E for Lauri doesn’t work pre-draft.

I’m not well versed on R&E’s, probably because of how infrequently they occur.

Even if that can’t be done pre-draft, agents and front offices are usually pretty comfortable making handshake/ wink wink agreements if the money is right.

[MoneyTalks41890]

I like them as a dark horse Mikal Bridges landing spot. He’d be a great partner for Cade in the backcourt.

[GreekAlex]

I like them as a dark horse Mikal Bridges landing spot. He’d be a great partner for Cade in the backcourt.

What would a deal look like between the Pistons & Nets?

I’d be thrilled to add him as long as it doesn’t require some absurd price and he’s willing to extend.

I love his durability and ability to fit with any roster.

[vege]

In my opinion, Ivey should be dealt. Kid has electric speed and good offensive talent, but his defense remains suspect, the fit with Cade is clunky, and he’s clearly not seeing eye to eye with Monty. I’d dump the coach first, but I don’t think that’s going to happen.

I mentioned above that Utah won’t trade Markkanen for our top 5 pick. I’d be willing to consider Ivey AND our top 5 pick. If it’s high enough, Utah might consider that and then move Sexton for additional value and really tank next year.

Markkanen would do wonders for Cade. He’s basically a bigger, younger Bojan that is average instead of terrible on defense. Then you don’t need to spend on Tobias and still have a lot of money to work with.

Cade/Sasser
Grimes
Thompson/Fontecchio
Markkanen
Duren/Stewart

This is then your starting point, with money to spend on a SG (starter or backup, depending on Grimes), another wing, and the other five roster spots that likely won’t play regular minutes. That looks like a solid team with room to grow to me.

I kind of see the opposite for the Cade/Ivey pairing.

Cade and Ivey just had their best game together.

Developing chemistry takes time and it’s not like they’ve had a ton of game reps together with Cade missing so much of last season. I think that they’re just starting to click and that’s in part because Monty is just now figuring out how to maximize their talents together. FYI, they haven’t even played 60 games together to date (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jaden-ivey-stats-with-cade-cunningham).

As far as Utah, I’m confident that regardless what Utah poster may say, Ainge would trade Lauri for the top pick if he’s enamored with one of the top prospects.

The caveat is that we don’t know where the pick will be and he’s way more likely to trade Lauri for the first or second overall pick vs the 5th or 6th.

That being said, as a Pistons fan, I’d only deal the pick to Utah if there’s an extension in place for Lauri. It would be tremendously foolish and short sighted to blow an asset like that for 1 season left under contract of Markkanen.

They had a good offensive game, and mostly because Monty staggered their minutes, so Ivey could have the ball on his hands more, but they got torched on defense by Schroder and Lonnie Walker (it was Fournier's fault as well fwiw, and Duren wasn't very good on the switches)

[aguiar95]

Wiseman is very bad. Stewart would be the backup 5 and Fontecchio the backup 4, but other than that I don't hate it, I wish we could get someone better than Tobias, especially for what he is going to cost.

Detroit's beat writter said he will cost something around 35 million per year, but at least that lineup can play defense and spread the floor, and be functional on both sides of the floor, which is a huge upgrade over what we've been watching this year.

The problem is, Monty clearly lost the locker room when he benched Ivey, so I don't think he will do it again, but he should.

Watching the game last night made me doubt if Duren is the COTF. He's an awesome rebounder, but his defense is a weak point. Wiseman did play pretty good overall. Ivey should be shipped off with Stewart for a better fitting player.

Maybe a Duren for Murphy III and drafting Sarr?

[Skybox]

I was really high on Duren initially, but not so sure he’s more than adequate defensively. Imo, anybody but Cade could be available and Ivey should be shopped actively. I think he’s capable of more elsewhere, but you’d need the other team to see it that way or the return wouldn’t be worth it…basically, he’s good but is potentially best as a lead ball handler- and that’s not going to happen in DET (and shouldn’t).

I always liked Tobias and his rep suffered because of the tremendous overpay that he’s coming off of. He’d be a good add if his deal is a more realistic $20m per. Similar value might be Miles Bridges…who’s also an incomplete player that can put up 20ppg and make Cade look great as an offensive creator (by finishing plays).

I think re-examining existing guys is as important as any addition…they’re healthier this year than last and much worse. Why?

[Canadafan]

I was really high on Duren initially, but not so sure he’s more than adequate defensively. Imo, anybody but Cade could be available and Ivey should be shopped actively. I think he’s capable of more elsewhere, but you’d need the other team to see it that way or the return wouldn’t be worth it…basically, he’s good but is potentially best as a lead ball handler- and that’s not going to happen in DET (and shouldn’t).

I always liked Tobias and his rep suffered because of the tremendous overpay that he’s coming off of. He’d be a good add if his deal is a more realistic $20m per. Similar value might be Miles Bridges…who’s also an incomplete player that can put up 20ppg and make Cade look great as an offensive creator (by finishing plays).

I think re-examining existing guys is as important as any addition…they’re healthier this year than last and much worse. Why?

Monty Williams. The guy had to be trying to get fired , there's no other reason for some of the moves he has made this season. Atrocity of a coaching job he has done

[HadAnEffectHere]

Weaver badly needs to find a stretch 5 to save his job because otherwise Ausar is just going to be coming off the bench forever and that will be the end of Weaver. I don't know if there's a guy out there, but I could see him drafting Sarr and just hoping Sarr learns how to shoot. If they draft Sarr, they have to trade Duren and who gets Duren becomes interesting.

[Skybox]

Maybe something around Wendell Carter for Ivey? Dell could play next to Duren as well as at C.

I’d actually hope to expand it with frps to DET and Duren to ORL. Duren is limited but solid and could actually be a better fit in ORL. I think Carter could show a lot more scoring and rebounding away from Paolo & Franz.

WCJ + ORL 24 frp + DEN 25 frp

For: Ivey & Duren

[vege]

Wiseman is very bad. Stewart would be the backup 5 and Fontecchio the backup 4, but other than that I don't hate it, I wish we could get someone better than Tobias, especially for what he is going to cost.

Detroit's beat writter said he will cost something around 35 million per year, but at least that lineup can play defense and spread the floor, and be functional on both sides of the floor, which is a huge upgrade over what we've been watching this year.

The problem is, Monty clearly lost the locker room when he benched Ivey, so I don't think he will do it again, but he should.

Watching the game last night made me doubt if Duren is the COTF. He's an awesome rebounder, but his defense is a weak point. Wiseman did play pretty good overall. Ivey should be shipped off with Stewart for a better fitting player.

Maybe a Duren for Murphy III and drafting Sarr?

That was a very bad game by Duren, he is much better than that, the early fouls bothered him, resulting in a pathetic game and his 2 T's and a well deserved ejection.

Wiseman is terrible, that was his best game in Detroit but he is completely lost on both sides of the floor, and despite of low minutes he is called by at least 1 moving screen every single game.

Stewart and Ivey are bench players imo. Ivey have potential, Stewart is clearly a backup 5 that Detroit is trying to turn into a starting 4 and that's never going to happen.

[JRoy]

Maybe something around Wendell Carter for Ivey? Dell could play next to Duren as well as at C.

I’d actually hope to expand it with frps to DET and Duren to ORL. Duren is limited but solid and could actually be a better fit in ORL. I think Carter could show a lot more scoring and rebounding away from Paolo & Franz.

WCJ + ORL 24 frp + DEN 25 frp

For: Ivey & Duren

DET is not giving up 2 recent lotto picks for WCJ and non lotto picks.

No reason for DET to donate those guys.

[vege]

I think re-examining existing guys is as important as any addition…they’re healthier this year than last and much worse. Why?

Partially is because of Monty Williams, partially is because the team rebelled when he benched Ivey, partially is because the roster is more dysfunctional than it was last year.

Last year we had CoJo playing well for us taking care of the ball and shooting 40%+ from 3.

The players respected and played hard for Casey, so the defense was much better, and the end of bench guys were much better, Diallo and McGruder were better than the garbage that have been playing for us this season.

I mean, we were a decent team with washed up veterans who knew how to play. Gallinari and Muscalla made us look respectable when they played.

Maybe something around Wendell Carter for Ivey? Dell could play next to Duren as well as at C.

I’d actually hope to expand it with frps to DET and Duren to ORL. Duren is limited but solid and could actually be a better fit in ORL. I think Carter could show a lot more scoring and rebounding away from Paolo & Franz.

WCJ + ORL 24 frp + DEN 25 frp

For: Ivey & Duren

WCJr is not much better than Stewart, so there's absolutely no point for Detroit to donate Ivey to Orlando. 2 late 1sts don't get you a player of Duren's caliber.