Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 3.0

[Knightro]

Ignoring the potential and development needs of lottery talents is a bad strategy, and expecting the team to do so is wishful thinking. Draft position, especially for lottery talent, is indicative of the player's potential ceiling AND the resources the team is willing to invest in reaching that ceiling. With Jett and Black it isn't about sunk costs, that's actually ridiculous to even introduce at this stage, it's about strategically developing assets that could significantly impact the team's future success. Disregarding their development could be a significant misstep and it's just not something I think the team's going to do.

Also, it's not necessarily a trade-off between winning now and developing AB and Jett. We're winning now and AB's played a critical role. Also, I think integrating AB and Jett into a winning culture and a winning environment will have a bigger return on their development.

You're framing it too much like it's an ether or scenario IMO.

"Blocking" a lottery pick implies that the lottery pick won't play at all and that simply isn't an accurate representation of how it could (and should) go.

The Magic can acquire multiple players this offseason that are better than the Fultz, Gary, Ingles, Cole group and still play Black *and* Jett rotation minutes next season if they're so inclined.

I certainly don't trust Weltman to make sweeping changes, but they should be on the table. The sooner this front office accepts they have four core players and like two or three players that supplement the core and everyone else is completely fungible, the better off everyone will be.

[eyriq]

Ignoring the potential and development needs of lottery talents is a bad strategy, and expecting the team to do so is wishful thinking. Draft position, especially for lottery talent, is indicative of the player's potential ceiling AND the resources the team is willing to invest in reaching that ceiling. With Jett and Black it isn't about sunk costs, that's actually ridiculous to even introduce at this stage, it's about strategically developing assets that could significantly impact the team's future success. Disregarding their development could be a significant misstep and it's just not something I think the team's going to do.

Also, it's not necessarily a trade-off between winning now and developing AB and Jett. We're winning now and AB's played a critical role. Also, I think integrating AB and Jett into a winning culture and a winning environment will have a bigger return on their development.

You're framing it too much like it's an ether or scenario IMO.

"Blocking" a lottery pick implies that the lottery pick won't play at all and that simply isn't an accurate representation of how it could (and should) go.

The Magic can acquire multiple players this offseason that are better than the Fultz, Gary, Ingles, Cole group and still play Black *and* Jett rotation minutes next season if they're so inclined.

I certainly don't trust Weltman to make sweeping changes, but they should be on the table. The sooner this front office accepts they have four core players and like two or three players that supplement the core and everyone else is completely fungible, the better off everyone will be.

If we bring in a young starting guard AB and Jett are blocked. Plain and simple.

[VFX]

Ignoring the potential and development needs of lottery talents is a bad strategy, and expecting the team to do so is wishful thinking. Draft position, especially for lottery talent, is indicative of the player's potential ceiling AND the resources the team is willing to invest in reaching that ceiling. With Jett and Black it isn't about sunk costs, that's actually ridiculous to even introduce at this stage, it's about strategically developing assets that could significantly impact the team's future success. Disregarding their development could be a significant misstep and it's just not something I think the team's going to do.

Also, it's not necessarily a trade-off between winning now and developing AB and Jett. We're winning now and AB's played a critical role. Also, I think integrating AB and Jett into a winning culture and a winning environment will have a bigger return on their development.

You're framing it too much like it's an ether or scenario IMO.

"Blocking" a lottery pick implies that the lottery pick won't play at all and that simply isn't an accurate representation of how it could (and should) go.

The Magic can acquire multiple players this offseason that are better than the Fultz, Gary, Ingles, Cole group and still play Black *and* Jett rotation minutes next season if they're so inclined.

I certainly don't trust Weltman to make sweeping changes, but they should be on the table. The sooner this front office accepts they have four core players and like two or three players that supplement the core and everyone else is completely fungible, the better off everyone will be.

If we bring in a young starting guard AB and Jett are blocked. Plain and simple.

Not if you moved Cole and Markelle…

Same with Gary Harris.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

You're framing it too much like it's an ether or scenario IMO.

"Blocking" a lottery pick implies that the lottery pick won't play at all and that simply isn't an accurate representation of how it could (and should) go.

The Magic can acquire multiple players this offseason that are better than the Fultz, Gary, Ingles, Cole group and still play Black *and* Jett rotation minutes next season if they're so inclined.

I certainly don't trust Weltman to make sweeping changes, but they should be on the table. The sooner this front office accepts they have four core players and like two or three players that supplement the core and everyone else is completely fungible, the better off everyone will be.

If we bring in a young starting guard AB and Jett are blocked. Plain and simple.

Not if you moved Cole and Markelle…

Same with Gary Harris.

BINGO.. 11-man depth will look per below, both AB/Jett could very well get 15+ minutes a night.

New PG/AB
Suggs/Jett
Franz/ FA/Houstan
Paolo/Isaac
WCJ/Mo Wag

[CocoaFan]

Ignoring the potential and development needs of lottery talents is a bad strategy, and expecting the team to do so is wishful thinking. Draft position, especially for lottery talent, is indicative of the player's potential ceiling AND the resources the team is willing to invest in reaching that ceiling. With Jett and Black it isn't about sunk costs, that's actually ridiculous to even introduce at this stage, it's about strategically developing assets that could significantly impact the team's future success. Disregarding their development could be a significant misstep and it's just not something I think the team's going to do.

Also, it's not necessarily a trade-off between winning now and developing AB and Jett. We're winning now and AB's played a critical role. Also, I think integrating AB and Jett into a winning culture and a winning environment will have a bigger return on their development.

You're framing it too much like it's an ether or scenario IMO.

"Blocking" a lottery pick implies that the lottery pick won't play at all and that simply isn't an accurate representation of how it could (and should) go.

The Magic can acquire multiple players this offseason that are better than the Fultz, Gary, Ingles, Cole group and still play Black *and* Jett rotation minutes next season if they're so inclined.

I certainly don't trust Weltman to make sweeping changes, but they should be on the table. The sooner this front office accepts they have four core players and like two or three players that supplement the core and everyone else is completely fungible, the better off everyone will be.

If we bring in a young starting guard AB and Jett are blocked. Plain and simple.

For argument sake let's say we bring in Malik Monk. Monk or Suggs start at the point and the other the SG. AB backs up the point and Cole backs up the SG. AB and Cole can be interchangeable. We don't re-sign Ingles and Jett backs up the SF even though there aren't a lot of minutes there. If AB improves to the point he replaces Monk as a starter we trade Cole and Jett becomes the backup SG. For those who think Houstan would back up the SF in this scenario I don't believe Caleb is really a rotation player in the NBA. He's a one dimensional player with no creation and no defense. Good guy and nice 3rd string option. Both AB and Jett have to earn their minutes but both have a path to playing time.

[Knightro]

If we bring in a young starting guard AB and Jett are blocked. Plain and simple.

This is simply not accurate.

There's 144 minutes available at the 1, 2 and 3.

Suggs and Franz are only going to soak up 60-65 of those minutes every night.

That leaves anywhere from 79-84 minutes per night.

The Magic, if they were so inclined, could add a player (frankly they could add two players) to eat those minutes and still be able to carve out consistent rotation minutes for both Black and Jett every night.

They just have to be willing to move on from Fultz, Gary, Ingles and Cole. Which frankly they should be willing to do.

[eyriq]

If we bring in a young starting guard AB and Jett are blocked. Plain and simple.

This is simply not accurate.

There's 144 minutes available at the 1, 2 and 3.

Suggs and Franz are only going to soak up 60-65 of those minutes every night.

That leaves anywhere from 79-84 minutes per night.

The Magic, if they were so inclined, could add a player (frankly they could add two players) to eat those minutes and still be able to carve out consistent rotation minutes for both Black and Jett every night.

They just have to be willing to move on from Fultz, Gary, Ingles and Cole. Which frankly they should be willing to do.

I want AB starting with Suggs.

[JoshuaPotter]

If we bring in a young starting guard AB and Jett are blocked. Plain and simple.

This is simply not accurate.

There's 144 minutes available at the 1, 2 and 3.

Suggs and Franz are only going to soak up 60-65 of those minutes every night.

That leaves anywhere from 79-84 minutes per night.

The Magic, if they were so inclined, could add a player (frankly they could add two players) to eat those minutes and still be able to carve out consistent rotation minutes for both Black and Jett every night.

They just have to be willing to move on from Fultz, Gary, Ingles and Cole. Which frankly they should be willing to do.

The Narrator : they didn't

I really like the upside of P+F but I do not think the front office is sold that they found the lightning in the bottle that leads to championships. Ala like when we found Dwight Howard. So as a result I do not think we see a Reshard Lewis type signing to balance the roster out. I think its as likely we go after Claxton and fringe G veterans and run it back.

No, I am absolutely not saying that this the direction I would take it. I just think its being telegraphed and I am "hoping" the cap space is used on a Center as it fits the idea of the mold of the top being a top defensive team to a "T".

[Knightro]

I want AB starting with Suggs.

I know you do buddy

I just don't think that is the optimal lineup for this team to have maximum success next season.

That said...

It's not an either or scenario.

Even if the Magic acquire a quality veteran guard, Black should very much still be in the rotation and playing every game.

[Skybox]

I want AB starting with Suggs.

I know you do buddy

I just don't think that is the optimal lineup for this team to have maximum success next season.

That said...

It's not an either or scenario.

Even if the Magic acquire a quality veteran guard, Black should very much still be in the rotation and playing every game.

I have high hopes for AB...but, if he were anywhere close to ready for prime time, he'd have claimed the job already. He has had ample playing time (more than they clearly planned) due to injuries. Same for Cole or any guard not named Suggs. This was the season that any of them could have staked their claim to the job. Nobody rose to the occasion...Black and Jett will likely move into the regular rotation with a purging of expiring marginal vet guards (and maybe additional trades?). But bringing in a starter to "block" Black and Howard is the right move. If Black and/or Howard show a ton of improvement, they'll get more time - but, next year, I expect them to get a lot more time than this year as regular rotation players. They're not that good yet. It's not realistically debatable - we can all agree (or not) on potential but, right now, they're not starters and even Black is occasionally collecting DNPs...that's okay and that's reality FOR NOW and the immediate future. Having them continue (or begin to ) come off the bench is where they should be next season

...it's not anti-Black to suggest that bringing somebody in is a good idea. They didn't clear all of this cap space just to throw it at this year's Jeff Green - they are in a fantastic position to improve the team AND still have their recent lotto picks progress "without skipping steps" "organically" "without disrupting chemistry""without cutting corners" and all the other happy horses**t we like to regurgitate without any real definition of a vision.

[eyriq]

I want AB starting with Suggs.

I know you do buddy

I just don't think that is the optimal lineup for this team to have maximum success next season.

That said...

It's not an either or scenario.

Even if the Magic acquire a quality veteran guard, Black should very much still be in the rotation and playing every game.

I have high hopes for AB...but, if he were anywhere close to ready for prime time, he'd have claimed the job already. He has had ample playing time (more than they clearly planned) due to injuries. Same for Cole or any guard not named Suggs. This was the season that any of them could have staked their claim to the job. Nobody rose to the occasion...Black and Jett will likely move into the regular rotation with a purging of expiring marginal vet guards (and maybe additional trades?). But bringing in a starter to "block" Black and Howard is the right move. If Black and/or Howard show a ton of improvement, they'll get more time - but, next year, I expect them to get a lot more time than this year as regular rotation players. They're not that good yet. It's not realistically debatable - we can all agree (or not) on potential but, right now, they're not starters and even Black is occasionally collecting DNPs...that's okay and that's reality FOR NOW and the immediate future. Having them continue (or begin to ) come off the bench is where they should be next season

...it's not anti-Black to suggest that bringing somebody in is a good idea. They didn't clear all of this cap space just to throw it at this year's Jeff Green - they are in a fantastic position to improve the team AND still have their recent lotto picks progress "without skipping steps" "organically" "without disrupting chemistry""without cutting corners" and all the other happy horses**t we like to regurgitate without any real definition of a vision.

They cleared it to throw at Claxton.

[JoshuaPotter]

They cleared it to throw at Claxton.

and just like that, eyriq fixed it....

[eyriq]

I want AB starting with Suggs.

I know you do buddy

I just don't think that is the optimal lineup for this team to have maximum success next season.

That said...

It's not an either or scenario.

Even if the Magic acquire a quality veteran guard, Black should very much still be in the rotation and playing every game.

1. Pre-extension cap space is an asset.
2. #6 and #11 lottery picks are assets
3. Starting guard, backup guard, 3rd string center, and 3rd string wing roles are opening up without the team making any decisions
4. Team used the #6 and #11 picks on guards
5. Using pre-extension cap space on a guard is redundant
6. Using it on Claxton makes sense
7. Profit

[Knightro]

1. Pre-extension cap space is an asset.
2. #6 and #11 lottery picks are assets
3. Starting guard, backup guard, 3rd string center, and 3rd string wing roles are opening up without the team making any decisions
4. Team used the #6 and #11 picks on guards
5. Using pre-extension cap space on a guard is redundant
6. Using it on Claxton makes sense
7. Profit

[Knightro]

Klay Thompson since being moved to the bench on 2/15 (12 games, GSW is 8-4)

25.7 MPG, 18.2 PPG, 3.1 RPG, 1.9 APG, 0.7 SPG, 0.1 BPG, 1.3 TOV, .450/.435/.895 slash, .608 TS%.

He's made at least four 3PT in 8 of the 12 games.

[Knightro]

I have fully talked myself into giving Jrue Holiday the exact same offer Fred VanVleet got this past summer.

2 years, full max with a team option for a third year. Deal would come off the books right as Paolo's new deal kicked in, so there would be no overlap there.

Especially interested in this if the NBA is going to actually continue to allow physical play on the perimeter.

Imagine a Jrue/Suggs backcourt defensively with Black coming in behind them

[Skybox]

1. Pre-extension cap space is an asset.
2. #6 and #11 lottery picks are assets
3. Starting guard, backup guard, 3rd string center, and 3rd string wing roles are opening up without the team making any decisions
4. Team used the #6 and #11 picks on guards
5. Using pre-extension cap space on a guard is redundant
6. Using it on Claxton makes sense
7. Profit

Once you drive those picks off the Adam Silver meet n greet stage...they're all just players. Sunk Costs only get worse if you double down on something that's just NOT happening (yet-at least). Doesn't matter where they came from...

EXHIBIT A: Mr. Markelle Fultz (consensus overall #1 - other than Danny Ainge).

You're right about them being assets...they all are and all have a value to ORL and, maybe, even more to other teams.

*seriously, do the math...let's say, optimistically, Black improves 15% by next season and you replace WCJ with Claxton...that's a dismal offense, worse than today...and I believe Black WILL improve but not so much as an offensive generator. He could be a very useful rotation player but there's no viable evidence to confidently project that he'll suddenly look like an NBA starting PG anytime soon. I love the idea of him coming off the bench to maintain the defensive intensity that Suggs laid down.

[eyriq]

1. Pre-extension cap space is an asset.
2. #6 and #11 lottery picks are assets
3. Starting guard, backup guard, 3rd string center, and 3rd string wing roles are opening up without the team making any decisions
4. Team used the #6 and #11 picks on guards
5. Using pre-extension cap space on a guard is redundant
6. Using it on Claxton makes sense
7. Profit

Once you drive those picks off the Adam Silver meet n greet stage...they're all just players. Sunk Costs only get worse if you double down on something that's just NOT happening (yet-at least). Doesn't matter where they came from...

EXHIBIT A: Mr. Markelle Fultz (consensus overall #1 - other than Danny Ainge).

You're right about them being assets...they all are and all have a value to ORL and, maybe, even more to other teams.

*seriously, do the math...let's say, optimistically, Black improves 15% by next season and you replace WCJ with Claxton...that's a dismal offense, worse than today...and I believe Black WILL improve but not so much as an offensive generator. He could be a very useful rotation player but there's no viable evidence to confidently project that he'll suddenly look like an NBA starting PG anytime soon. I love the idea of him coming off the bench to maintain the defensive intensity that Suggs laid down.

Man, you can't sell low on picks in their rookies seasons. Calling them sunk costs is just way too premature. Both AB and Jett could easily end up among the ten best players from this draft in five seasons.

[Skybox]

I have fully talked myself into giving Jrue Holiday the exact same offer Fred VanVleet got this past summer.

2 years, full max with a team option for a third year. Deal would come off the books right as Paolo's new deal kicked in, so there would be no overlap there.

Especially interested in this if the NBA is going to actually continue to allow physical play on the perimeter.

Imagine a Jrue/Suggs backcourt defensively with Black coming in behind them

Exciting....his numbers are WAY down, but his efficiency is great and he's on a stacked team, so his pts and assists should be down. He's quietly put up star numbers offensively for years and he's a really good defender. But he's 33...In a vacuum, I prefer Dejounte Murray, a similar kind of player, but younger and cheaper...BUT, of course, Jrue would only be money out the door, not trade assets.

I wonder if a few mill at this point in his career would lead him to break up a superteam? I'd like to think it wouldn't, but I'm watching my MIA Dolphins fall apart in FA while their "leader" is expected to command the largest deal in NFL history...so, who knows?

Klay is interesting in the same way...big bucks, short term boost. There's also something to be said for making a bit of a splash on the national scene. Players might start to pay more attention to a bolder, competitive ORL Magic as a possible destination. I agree with comments in the other thread that a re-signed Mosely might also be a draw...for any X and O criticisms we might think we have, he really seems well-liked.

Ideally though, we come out with a guy the right age to stick around for the long run and on a deal that's not crippling but we've got a lot more $$$ than win-now trade assets, so FA might be the way and you rarely see guys jump strictly for the money because if their teams want them, they find a way to get some cap space by liquidating other assets.

[Knightro]

Man, you can't sell low on picks in their rookies seasons. Calling them sunk costs is just way too premature. Both AB and Jett could easily end up among the ten best players from this draft in five seasons.

No one is calling them sunk costs my guy.