James Harden next contract

[HadAnEffectHere]

Harden reportedly declined a contract that was either 2/80 or 3/120 and demanded a trade away from the 76ers in response.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/james-harden-potentially-could-have-gotten-a-multi-year-max-deal-from-76ers-per-report/

He is now a FA once again and it's hard to say what his value is. Harden is eligible for a 3 year contract starting at 35% of the cap (49.35m), but things get very dicey financially for the Clippers if he gets more than 25% of the cap with declining percentages each year (so starting at roughly 35m for probably a contract of 3/105). If the Clippers only offer Harden 2/70 or 3/105, does he look elsewhere due to another feeling of betrayal?

[Mavrelous]

120/3, which is equivalent to 155/4 if he opted out and re-signed.

[HadAnEffectHere]

120/3, which is equivalent to 155/4 if he opted out and re-signed.

3/120 would make staying out of the second apron nearly impossible next year and cause significant issues in avoiding the second apron two or three years from now.

More than 2/70 seems like a big overpay that would really hurt the team (same if George gets more than 3/126)

[NBA4Lyfe]

120/3, which is equivalent to 155/4 if he opted out and re-signed.

3/120 would make staying out of the second apron nearly impossible next year and cause significant issues in avoiding the second apron two or three years from now.

More than 2/70 seems like a big overpay that would really hurt the team (same if George gets more than 3/126)

By every metric harden has been better than Paul George this szn by a significant margin. The clippers could easily find a player look within their g-league for Paul George level production offensively as Paul has turned into Tobias harris 2.0 since the start of 2024. The clippers are different team with harden and their front office knows they can’t lose him especially after giving up all of their draft picks till 2030 for him

[HadAnEffectHere]

120/3, which is equivalent to 155/4 if he opted out and re-signed.

3/120 would make staying out of the second apron nearly impossible next year and cause significant issues in avoiding the second apron two or three years from now.

More than 2/70 seems like a big overpay that would really hurt the team (same if George gets more than 3/126)

By every metric harden has been better than Paul George this szn by a significant margin. The clippers could easily find a player look within their g-league for Paul George level production offensively as Paul has turned into Tobias harris 2.0 since the start of 2024. The clippers are different team with harden and their front office knows they can’t lose him especially after giving up all of their draft picks till 2030 for him

The issue with George is that he has a PO that pays 34.6% of the cap and the Clippers really need him to decline that option and sign an extension with a lower number next year and this will require giving him extra years. Basically what the Bucks did with Middleton last year (who is also kind of toast). 3/126 seems like the lowest number George would take to decline that player option.

[Mavrelous]

120/3, which is equivalent to 155/4 if he opted out and re-signed.

3/120 would make staying out of the second apron nearly impossible next year and cause significant issues in avoiding the second apron two or three years from now.

More than 2/70 seems like a big overpay that would really hurt the team (same if George gets more than 3/126)

He's not signing 2/70, he'll get 3 years 100-120, if they can get him for 100/3 and PG from 120/3, they have a chance at ducking the 2nd Apron.

[TheNetsFan]

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[jayjaysee]

I think Harden gets 3yr120.

If you already have your rotation set, the second apron only impacts the owners pockets. And LAC has a respectable top 8-9 guys.

LAC can’t rebuild and they can’t really add comparable talent if they let Harden go. I’d say the same thing about Plumlee and any other free agent. they just have to keep the group together. Ballmer just needs to spend for 3 more years. Seen no sign of him not being willing to.

[HadAnEffectHere]

I think Harden gets 3yr120.

If you already have your rotation set, the second apron only impacts the owners pockets. And LAC has a respectable top 8-9 guys.

LAC can’t rebuild and they can’t really add comparable talent if they let Harden go. I’d say the same thing about Plumlee and any other free agent. they just have to keep the group together. Ballmer just needs to spend for 3 more years. Seen no sign of him not being willing to.

No, the second apron starts impacting your future draft picks pretty badly and makes it really hard to do trades.

No access to the $5 million taxpayer midlevel exception

Starting at the end of the 2023-24 season, even more restrictions will be added to the second apron. These include:

Teams cannot use a trade exception generated by aggregating the salaries of multiple players
Teams cannot include cash in a trade
Teams cannot use a trade exception generated in a prior year
First-round picks seven years out are frozen (unable to be traded)
A team's first-round pick is moved to the end of the first round if they remain in the second apron for three out of five seasons

The Clippers also don't really have a core rotation of 8-9 guys that can't be improved upon. They desperately need a small ball center who can play with Zubac, Westbrook is nearly toast, Plumlee is toast, Tucker is toast. Without the TP MLE and without cash trades (they need to be able to make cash trades to buy second round picks as they traded all their seconds away until 2030...) and without being able to trade picks or aggregate salaries, they're basically locked out of making any moves other than minimum guys. They're also going to be getting a lot worse over the next few years as Kawhi and Harden and George will almost certainly decline even further.

Like, find a trade where the Clippers trade PJ Tucker and their 2030 and 2031 picks for a valuable player under the rules of the second apron (meaning they can't take in more salary than PJ Tucker's number)... It's stupidly hard.

[jayjaysee]

I think Harden gets 3yr120.

If you already have your rotation set, the second apron only impacts the owners pockets. And LAC has a respectable top 8-9 guys.

LAC can’t rebuild and they can’t really add comparable talent if they let Harden go. I’d say the same thing about Plumlee and any other free agent. they just have to keep the group together. Ballmer just needs to spend for 3 more years. Seen no sign of him not being willing to.

No, the second apron starts impacting your future draft picks pretty badly and makes it really hard to do trades.

No access to the $5 million taxpayer midlevel exception

Starting at the end of the 2023-24 season, even more restrictions will be added to the second apron. These include:

Teams cannot use a trade exception generated by aggregating the salaries of multiple players
Teams cannot include cash in a trade
Teams cannot use a trade exception generated in a prior year
First-round picks seven years out are frozen (unable to be traded)
A team's first-round pick is moved to the end of the first round if they remain in the second apron for three out of five seasons

The Clippers also don't really have a core rotation of 8-9 guys that can't be improved upon. They desperately need a small ball center who can play with Zubac, Westbrook is nearly toast, Plumlee is toast, Tucker is toast. Without the TP MLE and without cash trades (they need to be able to make cash trades to buy second round picks as they traded all their seconds away until 2030...) and without being able to trade picks or aggregate salaries, they're basically locked out of making any moves other than minimum guys. They're also going to be getting a lot worse over the next few years as Kawhi and Harden and George will almost certainly decline even further.

Like, find a trade where the Clippers trade PJ Tucker and their 2030 and 2031 picks for a valuable player under the rules of the second apron (meaning they can't take in more salary than PJ Tucker's number)... It's stupidly hard.

They can still trade Tucker and Brown for a player making less than Tucker. Doesn’t have to be a great player, they have the great players already on the roster...

They can still trade Powell and bank on Mann. They can pay Plumlee 15-20 mil on a one year deal and make him waive the NTC as part of the deal to be able to trade him midseason, toss in Bones/Brown for whatever value they add.

Once the team is no longer a clear playoff team and the stars decline in 2-4 years, then drop below the second apron and gift OKC/Philly a better pick or two while you prep for a retool or rebuild. But as long as there’s a chance. Just pay to keep what you have.

[balsamic_ducks]

120/3, which is equivalent to 155/4 if he opted out and re-signed.

3/120 would make staying out of the second apron nearly impossible next year and cause significant issues in avoiding the second apron two or three years from now.

More than 2/70 seems like a big overpay that would really hurt the team (same if George gets more than 3/126)

No chance he signs for that, clippers have no leverage here unless he's dead set on staying in LA.

[Scoot McGroot]

I think Harden gets 3yr120.

If you already have your rotation set, the second apron only impacts the owners pockets. And LAC has a respectable top 8-9 guys.

LAC can’t rebuild and they can’t really add comparable talent if they let Harden go. I’d say the same thing about Plumlee and any other free agent. they just have to keep the group together. Ballmer just needs to spend for 3 more years. Seen no sign of him not being willing to.

No, the second apron starts impacting your future draft picks pretty badly and makes it really hard to do trades.

No access to the $5 million taxpayer midlevel exception

Starting at the end of the 2023-24 season, even more restrictions will be added to the second apron. These include:

Teams cannot use a trade exception generated by aggregating the salaries of multiple players
Teams cannot include cash in a trade
Teams cannot use a trade exception generated in a prior year
First-round picks seven years out are frozen (unable to be traded)
A team's first-round pick is moved to the end of the first round if they remain in the second apron for three out of five seasons

The Clippers also don't really have a core rotation of 8-9 guys that can't be improved upon. They desperately need a small ball center who can play with Zubac, Westbrook is nearly toast, Plumlee is toast, Tucker is toast. Without the TP MLE and without cash trades (they need to be able to make cash trades to buy second round picks as they traded all their seconds away until 2030...) and without being able to trade picks or aggregate salaries, they're basically locked out of making any moves other than minimum guys. They're also going to be getting a lot worse over the next few years as Kawhi and Harden and George will almost certainly decline even further.

Like, find a trade where the Clippers trade PJ Tucker and their 2030 and 2031 picks for a valuable player under the rules of the second apron (meaning they can't take in more salary than PJ Tucker's number)... It's stupidly hard.

They can still trade Tucker and Brown for a player making less than Tucker. Doesn’t have to be a great player, they have the great players already on the roster...

They can still trade Powell and bank on Mann. They can pay Plumlee 15-20 mil on a one year deal and make him waive the NTC as part of the deal to be able to trade him midseason, toss in Bones/Brown for whatever value they add.

Once the team is no longer a clear playoff team and the stars decline in 2-4 years, then drop below the second apron and gift OKC/Philly a better pick or two while you prep for a retool or rebuild. But as long as there’s a chance. Just pay to keep what you have.

Yeah. You don’t burn a bridge with James Harden or Paul George so that you can potentially use the taxpayer MLE or aggregate salaries, or try to trade PJ Tucker for a guy making more money.

[brackdan70]

Apron is t that big of a deal if you have good players. Clippers do. George probably opts in and extends and Harden gets a 3 year max. Mann and Zubic have another year left and then they’ll get paid. Powell is locked up for a couple more. Maybe Westbrook is back as well? Good teams won’t worry about the apron until their window closes. That could happen with the clippers due to health, but they deal with that when it happens.

[HadAnEffectHere]

120/3, which is equivalent to 155/4 if he opted out and re-signed.

3/120 would make staying out of the second apron nearly impossible next year and cause significant issues in avoiding the second apron two or three years from now.

More than 2/70 seems like a big overpay that would really hurt the team (same if George gets more than 3/126)

No chance he signs for that, clippers have no leverage here unless he's dead set on staying in LA.

I mean, the Magic are the only team that can sign Harden other than the Clippers?

And how much do the Magic want to pay?

[balsamic_ducks]

3/120 would make staying out of the second apron nearly impossible next year and cause significant issues in avoiding the second apron two or three years from now.

More than 2/70 seems like a big overpay that would really hurt the team (same if George gets more than 3/126)

No chance he signs for that, clippers have no leverage here unless he's dead set on staying in LA.

I mean, the Magic are the only team that can sign Harden other than the Clippers?

And how much do the Magic want to pay?

Harden is exactly what the magic need. A PG who can shoot and playmake. I'd imagine they would pay a lot

[HadAnEffectHere]

No chance he signs for that, clippers have no leverage here unless he's dead set on staying in LA.

I mean, the Magic are the only team that can sign Harden other than the Clippers?

And how much do the Magic want to pay?

Harden is exactly what the magic need. A PG who can shoot and playmake. I'd imagine they would pay a lot

I'm sure they would give him a huge one year deal and maybe even a big two year deal, but would they give him a huge three year deal when they're going to be paying Paolo and Franz a combined 50% of the cap by the third year of that contract? (And Suggs will probably get like 15% of the cap as well)

[jayjaysee]

No chance he signs for that, clippers have no leverage here unless he's dead set on staying in LA.

I mean, the Magic are the only team that can sign Harden other than the Clippers?

And how much do the Magic want to pay?

Harden is exactly what the magic need. A PG who can shoot and playmake. I'd imagine they would pay a lot

If Harden just wants money.. I don’t see why SAS or Prlando wouldn’t give him more than Houston gave FVV.. Same with Detroit, we hear talk of them giving Harris 35+..

Utah could give Lauri an actual star partner, then trade Clarkson or Sexton for an asset and maintain the money needed to renegotiate Lauri..

2year70 might be all Harden is worth, but IMO hes easily getting more than that

[HartfordWhalers]

120/3, which is equivalent to 155/4 if he opted out and re-signed.

3/120 would make staying out of the second apron nearly impossible next year and cause significant issues in avoiding the second apron two or three years from now.

More than 2/70 seems like a big overpay that would really hurt the team (same if George gets more than 3/126)

By every metric harden has been better than Paul George this szn by a significant margin. The clippers could easily find a player look within their g-league for Paul George level production offensively as Paul has turned into Tobias harris 2.0 since the start of 2024. The clippers are different team with harden and their front office knows they can’t lose him especially after giving up all of their draft picks till 2030 for him

If you are I plying that Tobias produces like a g leaguer I won’t take you serious. Because at that point it isn’t serious.

[NBA4Lyfe]

3/120 would make staying out of the second apron nearly impossible next year and cause significant issues in avoiding the second apron two or three years from now.

More than 2/70 seems like a big overpay that would really hurt the team (same if George gets more than 3/126)

By every metric harden has been better than Paul George this szn by a significant margin. The clippers could easily find a player look within their g-league for Paul George level production offensively as Paul has turned into Tobias harris 2.0 since the start of 2024. The clippers are different team with harden and their front office knows they can’t lose him especially after giving up all of their draft picks till 2030 for him

If you are I plying that Tobias produces like a g leaguer I won’t take you serious. Because at that point it isn’t serious.

Amir coffee and Kobe brown can give you a bit of pg13 can give you without the constant brain farts that Paul George has been doing since the start of January

[giberish]

120/3, which is equivalent to 155/4 if he opted out and re-signed.

3/120 would make staying out of the second apron nearly impossible next year and cause significant issues in avoiding the second apron two or three years from now.

More than 2/70 seems like a big overpay that would really hurt the team (same if George gets more than 3/126)

No chance he signs for that, clippers have no leverage here unless he's dead set on staying in LA.

I think the question of leverage for both Harden and George as FA's is very uncertain. George has shown that he strongly wants to play in LA. How much is that worth to him? Harden went from forcing his way to the Nets and 76ers to forcing his way out of them in about a year for each one. Outside of the Clippers would any team trust him on a multi-year deal?

I think that even though Harden is outplaying George there would be more outside FA market for PG due to a lack of trust in Harden. I'd expect teams to only offer Harden deals that are 1 year or low-budget.

For the Clippers, I'd expect that their playoff run will weigh more than their regular season in making off-season decisions. A strong playoff run and bringing everyone back becomes the top priority and they may just have to find a way to live over the 2nd apron for a year or two. A 1st round loss (or ugly 2nd round loss) and budget concerns will matter more - especially if Harden and/or PG play badly in the loss.