NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 4: MVP Thread's Revenge)

[Infinite Llamas]

Jokic didn’t force a thing. Let Porter cook and have the spotlight to a slumping Reggie in the 4th all the while drawing Bam away from the rim and setting mean screens all night long.

It isn’t all about the numbers…

It's all about the numbers when they reinforce your opinion.

Then it's about more when the numbers are lacking.

Par for course lol.

Lmao

The genius of Jokic is what’s going on in the margins. Coaching his team from the court…directing the traffic and getting everyone in the right spot…bone crunching screens…clever stalling tactics…endless deflections…ridiculous passes…

Almost all those things have nothing to do with numbers and that’s what makes him such a fun and unique player to watch. He took the least shots out of the starters tonight and he doesn’t care. Raw stats are nice but it’s all the extra stuff he does that makes him as great as he is.

[jfs1000d]

Jokic didn’t force a thing. Let Porter cook and have the spotlight to a slumping Reggie in the 4th all the while drawing Bam away from the rim and setting mean screens all night long.

It isn’t all about the numbers…

It's all about the numbers when they reinforce your opinion.

Then it's about more when the numbers are lacking.

Par for course lol.

Lmao

The genius of Jokic is what’s going on in the margins. Coaching his team from the court…directing the traffic and getting everyone in the right spot…bone crunching screens…clever stalling tactics…endless deflections…ridiculous passes…

Almost all those things have nothing to do with numbers and that’s what makes him such a fun and unique player to watch. He took the least shots out of the starters tonight and he doesn’t care. Raw stats are nice but it’s all the extra stuff he does that makes him as great as he is.

Jokic is one of the best players i have seen. Just is a one man orchestra out there. He makes bums look like good players.

I am a Celtics homer, but jokic should be unanimous mvp. He is an all-time great.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Wolfgang630]

Jokic really is a quarterback

[HotRocks34]

No surprise with Jokic. Bam may be his toughest matchup in the league, considering both ends. Bam is athletic and strong but also sleek, unlike Nurkic, Zubac and Embiid.

The first time these teams met this year Jokic had 2 fouls in the first quarter and seemed tentative after that until the fourth quarter. He didn't have a great game that night, by his standards.

Denver has, by necessity (defensive looks), started to figure out how to play at times this year without Jokic focus. That's a huge improvement for them.

Denver had PG, SF, PF edges in this matchup and exploited them well. Murray was not great but he was solid.

I think after the first quarter tonight Jokic only had 2 FGA. He was the decoy.

Denver is 10-1 since the break. I would expect a few more Jokic games like this coming up against Nurkic, Zubac, Gobert and Cleveland.

If Denver is able to win with Jokic holding back they are going to be even harder to defeat in a series. And the bench is starting to come around, too.

[Woodsanity]

Jokic didn’t force a thing. Let Porter cook and have the spotlight to a slumping Reggie in the 4th all the while drawing Bam away from the rim and setting mean screens all night long.

It isn’t all about the numbers…

It's all about the numbers when they reinforce your opinion.

Then it's about more when the numbers are lacking.

Par for course lol.

Still has the best stats without stat padding like other superstars. Try again.

[Johnny Firpo]

I don't know how Handlez can insinuate that Jokic had a bad game, he had a good, albeit not special game, was the definition of "took what they gave him". Never saw the guy play defense consistently like that btw, not even during the playoffs, probably. What he and the team does on the defensive side since the all-star break, is scary. It makes nearly every game a style of game they want to play (where half court execution decides the outcome).

[mkot]

Watch on YouTube

[Handlez]

Jokic didn’t force a thing. Let Porter cook and have the spotlight to a slumping Reggie in the 4th all the while drawing Bam away from the rim and setting mean screens all night long.

It isn’t all about the numbers…

It's all about the numbers when they reinforce your opinion.

Then it's about more when the numbers are lacking.

Par for course lol.

Lmao

The genius of Jokic is what’s going on in the margins. Coaching his team from the court…directing the traffic and getting everyone in the right spot…bone crunching screens…clever stalling tactics…endless deflections…ridiculous passes…

Almost all those things have nothing to do with numbers and that’s what makes him such a fun and unique player to watch. He took the least shots out of the starters tonight and he doesn’t care. Raw stats are nice but it’s all the extra stuff he does that makes him as great as he is.

Jokic is amazing. We know this.

But the numbers are the go to for arguing his greatness because they're untouchable. They are what's used the most.

I just think it's funny how the argument changes when he rarely has an off game numbers wise.

[Mavrelous]

Recess is over, I want my spot back
Who's the next out the city to blow, coming at 'em
In a Pea coat and Stacy Adams, you're lookin' at 'em

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[Wolfgang630]

I think the Nuggets are supposed to have an easier schedule. They play the Wolves 3 times. It’s easier only because of no KAT.

[AleksandarN]

I think the Nuggets are supposed to have an easier schedule. They play the Wolves 3 times. It’s easier only because of no KAT.

The Nuggets have the 5th easiest schedule remaining. I think first will be locked up soon

[Wolfgang630]

The discussion is a lot less volatile when it’s not two players of the same caliber or position at the top of the mvp race. SGA is just a whole different kind of player and different position from Jokic. They’re not competing with resumes. So it makes the discussion a lot better for mvp.

[Exp0sed]

The discussion is a lot less volatile when it’s not two players of the same caliber or position at the top of the mvp race. SGA is just a whole different kind of player and different position from Jokic. They’re not competing with resumes. So it makes the discussion a lot better for mvp.

it's not about position and role it's about SGA actually being a legit candidate, unlike the fake stat padding, front running, biggest fraud in NBA history, Joe L MVPiid

when there are a handful of obssesive posters who just prop up with dozens of posts and threads reiterating the same far fetched nonsense ("best scorer ever!") to prop up their guy whose sole motivation is getting those MVP's but sadly simply isn't good enough

that's the main thing creating "volatility", sprinkle in some anti-Euro and racist bias (which doesn't happen with SGA being a black Canadian) and u got urself a real party
-

[Archx]

Jokic is gonna win mvp, because he literally is the most valuable player in the league. Nuggets suck without him.

I find Luka an amazing talent, puts up huge numbers, but i just find the ball in his hands way too much.

Tatum should be 2. About Same age as Shai, and is the straw that stirs the drink in Boston. he isn’t like Luka, JOKIC, who get gaudy assists as it is one pass shot. But Tatum creates a ton of open looks on those hockey assists. Boston 45 wins without Tatum. They are 65 with him.

Something doesn't add up here. You're talking about hockey assists aka potential assist as it's labeled in statistics? I'm not sure Tatum's gravity is as good as you're suggesting compared to the rest.

Potential assists.

1. Hali = 18.8
2. Trae = 18.4
3. Luka = 16.8
.
.
Tatum = 8.7

Then you have points created from assists.

1. Hali = 29.6
2. Trae = 27.2
3. Luka = 25.1
.
.
Tatum = 12.7

And secondary assists aka hockey assists that you're probably talking about. Per game.

1. Durant = 1.3
2. Luka = 1.3
3. Maxey = 1.3
.
.
Tatum = 1.0

...and totals.

1. Schroeder = 73
2. Durant = 71
3. Luka = 71
.
.
Tatum = 57

In grand TOTAL, Luka creates 59.8 points for Mavs, no player is even close to that.

Because he shoots too much. He is an otherworldly player, but he always has the ball. Every single possession.

I think he hurts those around him. Tatum and the Celtics don’t rely on Tatum. They just run their offense. They aren’t set up for Tatum to do it by himself and carry the team. Statistically, there is no case for Tatum over Luka.

You can't even remotely compare Celtics with Mavs. 2 different teams, coaches, offensive systems.

Also, how do you hurt your team if you set them up for easy buckets and you have 6th best offense in the league? That doesn't make any sense. You'd seriously have to watch Mavs way more...

[Exp0sed]

I think the Nuggets are supposed to have an easier schedule. They play the Wolves 3 times. It’s easier only because of no KAT.

The Nuggets have the 5th easiest schedule remaining. I think first will be locked up soon

where and how is that measured, can u send a link?

sounds odd to me as Nuggets have 16 games remaining. out of those 16 I would classify @ Dallas, @ Minny, @ Clippers as very difficult games so that's 3/16, let's say 2nd tier: Nyk, Cavs, Phx and Minny twice so that's 8/16 meaning - half their games are either tough or above average difficullty level

it's true that the other 8 are against bottom feeders, so perhaps that's dragging the overall SOS down hmm..
they have: Spurs 3 times (with two at home), Memphis twice, @ Por, @Utah and Hawks

I don't think it's easy beating any team 3 times in a short time span, even if it is the Spurs and def with Minny
I think the Minny games will decide the first seed, if Minny can get 2/3 I think they'll be in a good position

by the same method, if i'm ignoring the Denver games Minny has 13 games left:
very difficult: @PHX, @L.A
2nd tier: Cavs, PHX, GSW, so that's 5/13 very difficult or above average difficulty

easy: @Utah (twice) Det, Chi, Rockets, Raps, Wiz, Hawks - so 8/13 on the easy side

I assigned in a an arbitrary way, obviously we can decide to put some games in another tier and there will be injuries, rest etc which wlll effect some of these games but just as a quick overview

I think with the Denver games, one can argue Minny has 8/16 tough games and 8/16 easy game, which is exactly like Denver
if they can beat Denver 2/3, I think they might hang on to the 1st seed

[AleksandarN]

I think the Nuggets are supposed to have an easier schedule. They play the Wolves 3 times. It’s easier only because of no KAT.

The Nuggets have the 5th easiest schedule remaining. I think first will be locked up soon

where and how is that measured, can u send a link?

sounds odd to me as Nuggets have 16 games remaining. out of those 16 I would classify @ Dallas, @ Minny, @ Clippers as very difficult games so that's 3/16, let's say 2nd tier: Nyk, Cavs, Phx and Minny twice so that's 8/16 meaning - half their games are either tough or above average difficullty level

it's true that the other 8 are against bottom feeders, so perhaps that's dragging the overall SOS down hmm..
they have: Spurs 3 times (with two at home), Memphis twice, @ Por, @Utah and Hawks

I don't think it's easy beating any team 3 times in a short time span, even if it is the Spurs and def with Minny
I think the Minny games will decide the first seed, if Minny can get 2/3 I think they'll be in a good position

by the same method, if i'm ignoring the Denver games Minny has 13 games left:
very difficult: @PHX, @L.A
2nd tier: Cavs, PHX, GSW, so that's 5/13 very difficult or above average difficulty

easy: @Utah (twice) Det, Chi, Rockets, Raps, Wiz, Hawks - so 8/13 on the easy side

I assigned in a an arbitrary way, obviously we can decide to put some games in another tier and there will be injuries, rest etc which wlll effect some of these games but just as a quick overview

I think with the Denver games, one can argue Minny has 8/16 tough games and 8/16 easy game, which is exactly like Denver
if they can beat Denver 2/3, I think they might hang on to the 1st seed

https://www.tankathon.com/remaining_schedule_strength

Twolves has the 15th easiest schedule. I highly doubt a injuried Twolves team would challenge Denver for first in the west. They should be worried of keeping a top 4 seed.

[Exp0sed]

The Nuggets have the 5th easiest schedule remaining. I think first will be locked up soon

https://www.tankathon.com/remaining_schedule_strength

Twolves has the 15th easiest schedule. I highly doubt a injuried Twolves team would challenge Denver for first in the west. They should be worried of keeping a top 4 seed.

it's certainly possible but I give KAT less of the credit than most, I suppose. he's obviously essential to their chance of going deep in the postseason but ANT is in full beast mode and can shoulder some of that load. I give ANT and Gobert most of the credit for their rs sucess this year. they're just a stacked team and Naz Reid is a certified baller, so the drop off isn't that huge, it falls more on the bench mins fron Naz to his replacement

when you have Gobert down low, MCdaniels, Conley and ANT really going for it - I think they should be able win most of their remaining games, I don't think they should be too worried about the Clips surpassing them I don't think that's very realistic, 3rd is probably the lowest they'll fall but like I said, I don't see them falling at all nesscariliy

we'll see if OKC drops some more games but I don't expect Minny to drop many games either, even without Kat.

edit: thanks for the link, so yeah it calculates by aggragating the win %

as I've outlined in my previous post, 8 of their 16 games are vs. bottom feeders and tanking teams - they should expect to win at least 6 if not 7 or 8 of those

they don't really have the "15th toughest" schedule..it's basically mostly the 3 Denver games. who knows, maybe the Nuggets will rest their starters or something on one of those, they've done so in the past. we'll see

[Special_Puppy]

I think the Nuggets are supposed to have an easier schedule. They play the Wolves 3 times. It’s easier only because of no KAT.

The Nuggets have the 5th easiest schedule remaining. I think first will be locked up soon

OKC still has a great chance of winning the one-seed especially since they have the tiebreaker over Denver

[Woodsanity]

I was looking forward to Thunder vs Mavs but Luka looks injured and its off a back to back so dont think it will be competitive.

[BigGargamel]

Well well well. Look who's back in first place in the West.

According to realgm the Nuggets and Jokic are "coasting".