Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 3.0

[Skybox]

Would you guys look to add Lamelo in offseason to this core and what do you think it would take?

It would take Franz + a fair amount, imo...not interested and CHA fans probably say the same.

Oh gosh no it wouldn't cost Franz

Also that defeats the whole purpose of the trade.

It would be the standard 3+ unprotected firsts and non-essential rookie contract players.

Aka not Paolo, Franz or Suggs.

I wouldn’t include Franz but what would CHA be thinking trading a 22 year old All-Star for picks just as they’re compiling talent?

He’s averaging 24 ppg, 5+ rpg, 8 apg…he’s a guy you build around

[pepe1991]

Lamelo is all 5 days older than Franz and by nba standards, way more established. once again, we can talk about contracts as deciding factor, but if Lamelo is being traded, it's for massive assets. We talk about 22 years old allstar.

how many 22 years old allstars are out there? Two. Him and Banchero.

[byeganyo]

"sunk cost" is not a negative term...it just means the previous investment in the asset shouldn't affect ongoing decisions. Where you pick a guy is not a factor in their place in the lineup, etc...doesn't mean or even imply good or bad.

Just "Here's where we are. What should we do"

Ok, so sunk costs refer to resources (money, time, draft capital) spent on a player that can't be recovered, while the sunk cost fallacy relates to focusing decisions on recovering that value in the context of that value being unrecoverable.

It's ridiculous to conclude that the investment we've made in AB and Jett is unrecoverable. Further, it's ridiculous to imply that a player development strategy focused on recovering the investment falls in the "sunk cost fallacy" category.

There is a reason Jett is not playing even though he is healthy, whatever that reason may be, it means he is not needed.
I dont remember similar case - drafting someone in the lottery and then playing them less than 50 minutes for the season. So what is the precedent here? What tells you Jett is going to get signifcant playing time in the future? It may happen of course, but nothing points towards it so far. So for now, lets accept this was a mistake, mistakes do happen and let's stop talking about him and just move on.

[byeganyo]

Lamelo is all 5 days older than Franz and by nba standards, way more established. once again, we can talk about contracts as deciding factor, but if Lamelo is being traded, it's for massive assets. We talk about 22 years old allstar.

how many 22 years old allstars are out there? Two. Him and Banchero.

This is the plus side, on the other hand he has missed more than 50% of the games in his career so far.

If we are to trade for him he will be a year younger than Porzingis when Dallas traded for him and in a similar situation - a injury ridden all star, more injury ridden of course, but at the end Dallas got him for 2 1st round picks and a semi flop - DSJ.
So this should be the reasonable price for Lamelo.

[eyriq]

"sunk cost" is not a negative term...it just means the previous investment in the asset shouldn't affect ongoing decisions. Where you pick a guy is not a factor in their place in the lineup, etc...doesn't mean or even imply good or bad.

Just "Here's where we are. What should we do"

Ok, so sunk costs refer to resources (money, time, draft capital) spent on a player that can't be recovered, while the sunk cost fallacy relates to focusing decisions on recovering that value in the context of that value being unrecoverable.

It's ridiculous to conclude that the investment we've made in AB and Jett is unrecoverable. Further, it's ridiculous to imply that a player development strategy focused on recovering the investment falls in the "sunk cost fallacy" category.

There is a reason Jett is not playing even though he is healthy, whatever that reason may be, it means he is not needed.
I dont remember similar case - drafting someone in the lottery and then playing them less than 50 minutes for the season. So what is the precedent here? What tells you Jett is going to get signifcant playing time in the future? It may happen of course, but nothing points towards it so far. So for now, lets accept this was a mistake, mistakes do happen and let's stop talking about him and just move on.

One explanation is that we are in a new era of player development. Every team has a G-League affiliate. The draft and stash strategy is now available domestically. You may see Orlando follow this path with their picks from now on, and it's not just Orlando doing it.

In this context it would imply that Jett going to the G-League was always the plan.

[pepe1991]

Lamelo is all 5 days older than Franz and by nba standards, way more established. once again, we can talk about contracts as deciding factor, but if Lamelo is being traded, it's for massive assets. We talk about 22 years old allstar.

how many 22 years old allstars are out there? Two. Him and Banchero.

This is the plus side, on the other hand he has missed more than 50% of the games in his career so far.

If we are to trade for him he will be a year younger than Porzingis when Dallas traded for him and in a similar situation - a injury ridden all star, more injury ridden of course, but at the end Dallas got him for 2 1st round picks and a semi flop - DSJ.
So this should be the reasonable price for Lamelo.

Difference being, as seller, Porzingis was sold after ACL tear as 7'3 player weighting 200 pounds.

Lamelo is sitting games for thing he won't do surgery and he literally has "game time decision" next to his name in injury reports.

Makes you wonder do Hornets hold him back for tanking purpose.


I just don't see reasons for Hornets to give up on him ,especially not for picks.
Franz basically plays same position as Brandon Miller so what would be the point? So we can leave him from trade talks.

And what would be a point of adding unprotected picks from team that alreay isn't lottery team, stacked with young players ? Adding bunch of mid 20s picks for your best player sprinkled around 6 years?

All that while you are selling allstar at age of 22 from a roster that drafted 21 years old Miller last year and has 48% chances at drafting top 4 - this year ?
All that wile having like $30M in cap space for a summer?

Why?

Literally makes no sense.

[Knightro]

If you're Charlotte and you already are terrible with LaMelo, you're not looking to take Franz who is getting a big contract extension of his own this summer over multiple unprotected picks.

Also sending out Franz defeats the purpose for Orlando. You're trying to create a Ball/Wagner/Banchero core.

Just my two cents.

[JoshuaPotter]

Ok, so sunk costs refer to resources (money, time, draft capital) spent on a player that can't be recovered, while the sunk cost fallacy relates to focusing decisions on recovering that value in the context of that value being unrecoverable.

It's ridiculous to conclude that the investment we've made in AB and Jett is unrecoverable. Further, it's ridiculous to imply that a player development strategy focused on recovering the investment falls in the "sunk cost fallacy" category.

There is a reason Jett is not playing even though he is healthy, whatever that reason may be, it means he is not needed.
I dont remember similar case - drafting someone in the lottery and then playing them less than 50 minutes for the season. So what is the precedent here? What tells you Jett is going to get signifcant playing time in the future? It may happen of course, but nothing points towards it so far. So for now, lets accept this was a mistake, mistakes do happen and let's stop talking about him and just move on.

One explanation is that we are in a new era of player development. Every team has a G-League affiliate. The draft and stash strategy is now available domestically. You may see Orlando follow this path with their picks from now on, and it's not just Orlando doing it.

In this context it would imply that Jett going to the G-League was always the plan.

I will continue to hate on Jett in hope that reverse karma comes around. I for one am not used to nor do I like the idea of permanently G leaguing what should be lottery level contribution talent with the exact skill set (shot hunting, 3pt shooting, scoring) that we are in so much need of.

[JoshuaPotter]

Ball coming here makes no sense for either teams right now.

[byeganyo]

Ok, so sunk costs refer to resources (money, time, draft capital) spent on a player that can't be recovered, while the sunk cost fallacy relates to focusing decisions on recovering that value in the context of that value being unrecoverable.

It's ridiculous to conclude that the investment we've made in AB and Jett is unrecoverable. Further, it's ridiculous to imply that a player development strategy focused on recovering the investment falls in the "sunk cost fallacy" category.

There is a reason Jett is not playing even though he is healthy, whatever that reason may be, it means he is not needed.
I dont remember similar case - drafting someone in the lottery and then playing them less than 50 minutes for the season. So what is the precedent here? What tells you Jett is going to get signifcant playing time in the future? It may happen of course, but nothing points towards it so far. So for now, lets accept this was a mistake, mistakes do happen and let's stop talking about him and just move on.

One explanation is that we are in a new era of player development. Every team has a G-League affiliate. The draft and stash strategy is now available domestically. You may see Orlando follow this path with their picks from now on, and it's not just Orlando doing it.

In this context it would imply that Jett going to the G-League was always the plan.

49 minutes for a season man, there are 60!! rookise this year that have played more than him. If this was always the plan, it's a plan nobody else is implementing. You know the occam's razor? The management screwed up, they picked the wrong guy, this is the most simple explanation, it happens all the time, lets stop counting on Jett till proven otherwise.

[pepe1991]

Somebody can go and check for 2021-22 and older, but for 2023-24 & 2022-23 Jett Howard will be only top 20 pick with sub 100 min.

His scenario is not normal.

[JoshuaPotter]

There is a reason Jett is not playing even though he is healthy, whatever that reason may be, it means he is not needed.
I dont remember similar case - drafting someone in the lottery and then playing them less than 50 minutes for the season. So what is the precedent here? What tells you Jett is going to get signifcant playing time in the future? It may happen of course, but nothing points towards it so far. So for now, lets accept this was a mistake, mistakes do happen and let's stop talking about him and just move on.

One explanation is that we are in a new era of player development. Every team has a G-League affiliate. The draft and stash strategy is now available domestically. You may see Orlando follow this path with their picks from now on, and it's not just Orlando doing it.

In this context it would imply that Jett going to the G-League was always the plan.

49 minutes for a season man, there are 60!! rookise this year that have played more than him. If this was always the plan, it's a plan nobody else is implementing. You know the occam's razor? The management screwed up, they picked the wrong guy, this is the most simple explanation, it happens all the time, lets stop counting on Jett till proven otherwise.

Much like a Wizard, our management never picks the wrong guy. They picked exactly the guy they meant to.

A Michigan player, to solidify a relationship of team building and give Michigan some NBA chops. If you listen to Juwan Howards coach speeches and translate that to our coach they are attempting to build the same culture.

The 11th pick was an overbuy no doubt. It was the price to pay to get Michigan some additional recruitment chops and us to target them as our farm.

[eyriq]

There is a reason Jett is not playing even though he is healthy, whatever that reason may be, it means he is not needed.
I dont remember similar case - drafting someone in the lottery and then playing them less than 50 minutes for the season. So what is the precedent here? What tells you Jett is going to get signifcant playing time in the future? It may happen of course, but nothing points towards it so far. So for now, lets accept this was a mistake, mistakes do happen and let's stop talking about him and just move on.

One explanation is that we are in a new era of player development. Every team has a G-League affiliate. The draft and stash strategy is now available domestically. You may see Orlando follow this path with their picks from now on, and it's not just Orlando doing it.

In this context it would imply that Jett going to the G-League was always the plan.

49 minutes for a season man, there are 60!! rookise this year that have played more than him. If this was always the plan, it's a plan nobody else is implementing. You know the occam's razor? The management screwed up, they picked the wrong guy, this is the most simple explanation, it happens all the time, lets stop counting on Jett till proven otherwise.

This is the argument I'd make against my point as well. It's not looking good for our boy.

[byeganyo]

Lamelo is all 5 days older than Franz and by nba standards, way more established. once again, we can talk about contracts as deciding factor, but if Lamelo is being traded, it's for massive assets. We talk about 22 years old allstar.

how many 22 years old allstars are out there? Two. Him and Banchero.

This is the plus side, on the other hand he has missed more than 50% of the games in his career so far.

If we are to trade for him he will be a year younger than Porzingis when Dallas traded for him and in a similar situation - a injury ridden all star, more injury ridden of course, but at the end Dallas got him for 2 1st round picks and a semi flop - DSJ.
So this should be the reasonable price for Lamelo.

Difference being, as seller, Porzingis was sold after ACL tear as 7'3 player weighting 200 pounds.

Lamelo is sitting games for thing he won't do surgery and he literally has "game time decision" next to his name in injury reports.

Makes you wonder do Hornets hold him back for tanking purpose.


I just don't see reasons for Hornets to give up on him ,especially not for picks.
Franz basically plays same position as Brandon Miller so what would be the point? So we can leave him from trade talks.

And what would be a point of adding unprotected picks from team that alreay isn't lottery team, stacked with young players ? Adding bunch of mid 20s picks for your best player sprinkled around 6 years?

All that while you are selling allstar at age of 22 from a roster that drafted 21 years old Miller last year and has 48% chances at drafting top 4 - this year ?
All that wile having like $30M in cap space for a summer?

Why?

Literally makes no sense.

I dont claim Charlotte are shopping Lamelo and i'm not sure that getting him will be a good idea, just that if they want to trade him, his price wont be that high, because he'll come with a lot of baggage, mostly injuries.

Portland is the team we should have talks with.

[JoshuaPotter]

Somebody can go and check for 2021-22 and older, but for 2023-24 & 2022-23 Jett Howard will be only top 20 pick with sub 100 min.

His scenario is not normal.

JJ Redick iirc.

Fran Vasquez before that.

We have a bygone tradition and we are sticking to it.

But yes, Jett is a bust until further notice. I only think he sees burn had we only had 1 pick. This management though has been doing this with Houstan though and now with Jett. I won't be surprised if Jett gets time over Houstan next season. That being said, Houstan is young and still can develop into something as well.

[Fortune Teller]

There is a reason Jett is not playing even though he is healthy, whatever that reason may be, it means he is not needed.
I dont remember similar case - drafting someone in the lottery and then playing them less than 50 minutes for the season. So what is the precedent here? What tells you Jett is going to get signifcant playing time in the future? It may happen of course, but nothing points towards it so far. So for now, lets accept this was a mistake, mistakes do happen and let's stop talking about him and just move on.

One explanation is that we are in a new era of player development. Every team has a G-League affiliate. The draft and stash strategy is now available domestically. You may see Orlando follow this path with their picks from now on, and it's not just Orlando doing it.

In this context it would imply that Jett going to the G-League was always the plan.

I will continue to hate on Jett in hope that reverse karma comes around. I for one am not used to nor do I like the idea of permanently G leaguing what should be lottery level contribution talent with the exact skill set (shot hunting, 3pt shooting, scoring) that we are in so much need of.

This is the key point. It's one thing to draft and stash a guard who would be playing behind Steph or Dame or Anthony Edwards in his rookie year. The Magic currently have the worst backcourt in the NBA, are near the bottom of the league in all 3-point shooting categories, and their highest-paid guard won't even take threes. This is not a team that should be drafting and stashing lottery shooting talent for no apparent reason. Especially not for the entire season! Who expected Jett to sit in the G-League all year on a team that needs shooting this badly.

Weltman has been in charge for 7 years and has yet to add a 3-point gunner to the roster in a league that is increasingly about the 3-ball. Now he reaches for Jett in the lottery and instead of proving critics of the pick wrong, he dumps him in the G League for an entire year as if -- just like everyone said -- he never should have been the 11th pick to begin with? At this point all you can say is that Jett's not good enough and they threw the pick away.

[JoshuaPotter]

One explanation is that we are in a new era of player development. Every team has a G-League affiliate. The draft and stash strategy is now available domestically. You may see Orlando follow this path with their picks from now on, and it's not just Orlando doing it.

In this context it would imply that Jett going to the G-League was always the plan.

49 minutes for a season man, there are 60!! rookise this year that have played more than him. If this was always the plan, it's a plan nobody else is implementing. You know the occam's razor? The management screwed up, they picked the wrong guy, this is the most simple explanation, it happens all the time, lets stop counting on Jett till proven otherwise.

This is the argument I'd make against my point as well. It's not looking good for our boy.

I will continue to say that Jett was the plan the entire time if we had only 1 pick.

Otherwise, draft and stash has been the play. It's an answer that makes sense because had Fultz / Gary not regressed as bad as they have Black would be gathering quite the DNP-CD collection.

[Fortune Teller]

One explanation is that we are in a new era of player development. Every team has a G-League affiliate. The draft and stash strategy is now available domestically. You may see Orlando follow this path with their picks from now on, and it's not just Orlando doing it.

In this context it would imply that Jett going to the G-League was always the plan.

49 minutes for a season man, there are 60!! rookise this year that have played more than him. If this was always the plan, it's a plan nobody else is implementing. You know the occam's razor? The management screwed up, they picked the wrong guy, this is the most simple explanation, it happens all the time, lets stop counting on Jett till proven otherwise.

Much like a Wizard, our management never picks the wrong guy. They picked exactly the guy they meant to.

A Michigan player, to solidify a relationship of team building and give Michigan some NBA chops. If you listen to Juwan Howards coach speeches and translate that to our coach they are attempting to build the same culture.

The 11th pick was an overbuy no doubt. It was the price to pay to get Michigan some additional recruitment chops and us to target them as our farm.

On draft night the conspiracy theory was that ownership made the Jett Howard pick, because the DeVos family (from Michigan) gives millions of dollars to the University of Michigan, and it was just getting a little too weird with Franz, Houstan, and now Jett who no one projected as a lottery pick. If you choose to go down the rabbit hole, this would actually provide an explanation for Weltman letting him rot in the G-League all year...he didn't want him to begin with.

[JoshuaPotter]

49 minutes for a season man, there are 60!! rookise this year that have played more than him. If this was always the plan, it's a plan nobody else is implementing. You know the occam's razor? The management screwed up, they picked the wrong guy, this is the most simple explanation, it happens all the time, lets stop counting on Jett till proven otherwise.

Much like a Wizard, our management never picks the wrong guy. They picked exactly the guy they meant to.

A Michigan player, to solidify a relationship of team building and give Michigan some NBA chops. If you listen to Juwan Howards coach speeches and translate that to our coach they are attempting to build the same culture.

The 11th pick was an overbuy no doubt. It was the price to pay to get Michigan some additional recruitment chops and us to target them as our farm.

On draft night the conspiracy theory was that ownership made the Jett Howard pick, because the DeVos family (from Michigan) gives millions of dollars to the University of Michigan, and it was just getting a little too weird with Franz, Houstan, and now Jett who no one projected as a lottery pick. If you choose to go down the rabbit hole, this would actually provide an explanation for Weltman letting him rot in the G-League all year...he didn't want him to begin with.

It's not a rabbit hole to go down if its true.

[Skybox]

Amazing stories here...I'm kind of a fan of the obvious - it's usually true

re: Lamelo...It's comical for us to discuss his value without giving up a near-equivalent player. Even with Franz on the table (he's not), it's not like CHA would jump. I wonder if the CHA board is calculating whether they should trade picks for Paolo.