OT: NFL 23-24 Season thread 2

[Ghetto Gospel]

I never heard those claims NYG were considered racist because they never drafted a AM QB or hired a AM HC. We can go back year by year and look at the candidates they passed up that happened to be AM but truthfully nobody really pops into my head.

you do know we hired joe judge right

And it was an awful decision but he wasn't hired cause he was white. He was hired because Mara and management were fooled by his used cars sales pitch during the interview (like most of us fans were during his introduction) and the Belichick coaching tree bs.

At the time Judge was hired, which AM coaches did we pass up?

eric bieniemy

[KOA]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=oVwClrBc20Ekr_aoPw2DSg

From the limited amount of knowledge I have, this would feel the same to me as when y'all drafted Jones in 2019.

Have to disagree here. DJ had 59.9% completion percentage in college with 52 TD and 29 interceptions and a QB rating of 123.

JJ has an average completion percentage of 67.6% with 49 TDs against 11 Interceptions and an average rating of 160.

They were nothing alike as prospects. Jones really didn’t show much improvement in his tenure at Duke. JJ has shown a lot on an undefeated team and has thrived under pressure and just turned 21 2 months ago.

[mpharris36]

my bad, i didn't mean to derail the thread. i thought this was something that was already known and understood.

didn't realize it'd cause an argument

You would have to give me a specific situation where we passed on a coach or QB for that specific reason though. Otherwise that is a pretty big leap. Like we are willing to have a GM (Jerry Reese) plenty of assistant GM's and coordinators and high paid players that are black. But we won't go as far as the HC or QB? Just seems odd.

Also we were one of the lucky team to have a QB basically in place from 2000 to 2020...in the early 2000's I think only like 15% of QB's starting were black. What did 2023 start with like 14 black QB's started in week 1. So there are a lot more to choose from especially from the college ranks.

Then we drafted Daniel Jones basically to succeed Eli Manning which would have been the only other real opportunity to do that. I guess you can say Haskins (RIP) was the other QB that could have been taken instead of Jones but hard to argue the Giants didn't make the right call in terms of on field production. Jones was a reach at the time anyway but Kyler Murray went 1 and its hard to argue that if the Giants wanted a QB Jones turned out the be the best one of the rest of the bunch

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-what-we-know-about-kyler-murray-daniel-jones-2019-quarterback-class

HC hires is probably another thing. But again we had Tom Coughlin for a while. Now our coaching carousel has been bad I would agree but you would need to give me an example. Brian Flores?

I think I talked with TC about this demeco ryans was my favorite potential HC but Schoen didn't have any connections with him. Turns out Demeco Ryans would have been a great choice so happy I got that right.

I think you gotta look at the overall body of work rather than just a blanket statement. Unfortunately Caleb Williams and Jayden Daniels are the two best QB's in this class and they are going 1 and 2...or I would gladly welcome them on the Giants.

[FrozenEnvelope]

you do know we hired joe judge right

And it was an awful decision but he wasn't hired cause he was white. He was hired because Mara and management were fooled by his used cars sales pitch during the interview (like most of us fans were during his introduction) and the Belichick coaching tree bs.

At the time Judge was hired, which AM coaches did we pass up?

eric bieniemy

Nobody has hired him as a HC (even though he was KC's OC), he's not even in the NFL anymore. Nothing to do with him being AM.

[TerrenceClarke]

my bad, i didn't mean to derail the thread. i thought this was something that was already known and understood.

didn't realize it'd cause an argument

You would have to give me a specific situation where we passed on a coach or QB for that specific reason though. Otherwise that is a pretty big leap. Like we are willing to have a GM (Jerry Reese) plenty of assistant GM's and coordinators and high paid players that are black. But we won't go as far as the HC or QB? Just seems odd.

Also we were one of the lucky team to have a QB basically in place from 2000 to 2020...in the early 2000's I think only like 15% of QB's starting were black. What did 2023 start with like 14 black QB's started in week 1. So there are a lot more to choose from especially from the college ranks.

Then we drafted Daniel Jones basically to succeed Eli Manning which would have been the only other real opportunity to do that. I guess you can say Haskins (RIP) was the other QB that could have been taken instead of Jones but hard to argue the Giants didn't make the right call in terms of on field production. Jones was a reach at the time anyway but Kyler Murray went 1 and its hard to argue that if the Giants wanted a QB Jones turned out the be the best one of the rest of the bunch

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-what-we-know-about-kyler-murray-daniel-jones-2019-quarterback-class

HC hires is probably another thing. But again we had Tom Coughlin for a while. Now our coaching carousel has been bad I would agree but you would need to give me an example. Brian Flores?

I think I talked with TC about this demeco ryans was my favorite potential HC but Schoen didn't have any connections with him. Turns out Demeco Ryans would have been a great choice so happy I got that right.

I think you gotta look at the overall body of work rather than just a blanket statement. Unfortunately Caleb Williams and Jayden Daniels are the two best QB's in this class and they are going 1 and 2...or I would gladly welcome them on the Giants.

If you was our owner we might have had a Black HC by now.

I know you clearly remember that year the convos me and you had in private. I still stand by it, but Imma leave alone in this thread.

[DOT]

my bad, i didn't mean to derail the thread. i thought this was something that was already known and understood.

didn't realize it'd cause an argument

I never heard those claims NYG were considered racist because they never drafted a AM QB or hired a AM HC. We can go back year by year and look at the candidates they passed up that happened to be AM but truthfully nobody really pops into my head.

you do know we hired joe judge right

Systemic racism is one of those things where people have gotten really good at defending individual decisions in vacuums, but ignore overall trends

Like I'm sure you can go back and justify every one of the decisions made, but when they all pile up together, it shows a clear trend

And we've had this conversation in this thread before, but the thing is, a lot of white people don't understand what racism looks like, they think you gotta pull up in Klan robes and scream the N word at the top of your lungs, but it's also a subconscious bias. Meaning you're not really aware of it, like if I showed someone the exact same tape on a guy and the only difference was one was white and the other black, subconsciously they'd focus on different details due to skin color. And the reason why they're so uncomfortable with understanding this is, it threatens their perception of themselves as being a good person if you can be racist without trying to be. Because that would mean they could be racist, and they reject that flat out because everybody views themselves as inherently a good person.

[Ghetto Gospel]

my bad, i didn't mean to derail the thread. i thought this was something that was already known and understood.

didn't realize it'd cause an argument

You would have to give me a specific situation where we passed on a coach or QB for that specific reason though. Otherwise that is a pretty big leap. Like we are willing to have a GM (Jerry Reese) plenty of assistant GM's and coordinators and high paid players that are black. But we won't go as far as the HC or QB? Just seems odd.

Also we were one of the lucky team to have a QB basically in place from 2000 to 2020...in the early 2000's I think only like 15% of QB's starting were black. What did 2023 start with like 14 black QB's started in week 1. So there are a lot more to choose from especially from the college ranks.

Then we drafted Daniel Jones basically to succeed Eli Manning which would have been the only other real opportunity to do that. I guess you can say Haskins (RIP) was the other QB that could have been taken instead of Jones but hard to argue the Giants didn't make the right call in terms of on field production. Jones was a reach at the time anyway but Kyler Murray went 1 and its hard to argue that if the Giants wanted a QB Jones turned out the be the best one of the rest of the bunch

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-what-we-know-about-kyler-murray-daniel-jones-2019-quarterback-class

HC hires is probably another thing. But again we had Tom Coughlin for a while. Now our coaching carousel has been bad I would agree but you would need to give me an example. Brian Flores?

I think I talked with TC about this demeco ryans was my favorite potential HC but Schoen didn't have any connections with him. Turns out Demeco Ryans would have been a great choice so happy I got that right.

I think you gotta look at the overall body of work rather than just a blanket statement. Unfortunately Caleb Williams and Jayden Daniels are the two best QB's in this class and they are going 1 and 2...or I would gladly welcome them on the Giants.

in the early 2000's racism against black QBs was rampant. you remember the talks of having them work out at the combine as WRs because they didn't have the "mental capacity" to play qb at a high level. just because everyone in the league was racist does not absolve the giants of the same. don't forget even lamar not that long ago was asked to work out at wr. it's great that the league is finally moving a good direction though

we could have just not drafted daniel jones and went with another position at the time. the same way we can this year as well. but of course, we had to reach for one.

we went through mcadoo, shurmur and joe judge. no one even knew who joe judge was but we gave him a shot. just saying we never gave a black HC a shot.

[mpharris36]

you do know we hired joe judge right

And it was an awful decision but he wasn't hired cause he was white. He was hired because Mara and management were fooled by his used cars sales pitch during the interview (like most of us fans were during his introduction) and the Belichick coaching tree bs.

At the time Judge was hired, which AM coaches did we pass up?

eric bieniemy

Bieniemy hasn't gotten a job from any team hard to be on the Giants for that...he has a lot of baggage in his past and if you listen to Shady McCoy he says he has no experience calling or installing plays.

Watch on YouTube

[TerrenceClarke]

And it was an awful decision but he wasn't hired cause he was white. He was hired because Mara and management were fooled by his used cars sales pitch during the interview (like most of us fans were during his introduction) and the Belichick coaching tree bs.

At the time Judge was hired, which AM coaches did we pass up?

eric bieniemy

Bieniemy hasn't gotten a job from any team hard to be on the Giants for that...he has a lot of baggage in his past and if you listen to Shady McCoy he says he has no experience calling or installing plays.

Watch on YouTube

neither did Joe Judge

[Ghetto Gospel]

And it was an awful decision but he wasn't hired cause he was white. He was hired because Mara and management were fooled by his used cars sales pitch during the interview (like most of us fans were during his introduction) and the Belichick coaching tree bs.

At the time Judge was hired, which AM coaches did we pass up?

eric bieniemy

Bieniemy hasn't gotten a job from any team hard to be on the Giants for that...he has a lot of baggage in his past and if you listen to Shady McCoy he says he has no experience calling or installing plays.

Watch on YouTube

alright then fkn anyone. we gave joe judge a shot who was a nobody and a surprise hiring. the steelers gave mike tomlin a shot who was a nobody and a surprise hiring. of course the nobody we hire is white.

[TerrenceClarke]

for the record I was not a fan of EB....But I damn sure wanted Flores and think he got the raw deal by the Giants since they never planned on hiring anyone but Daboll.

I still have a salty taste from that offseason till this day.

[Ghetto Gospel]

for the record I was not a fan of EB....But I damn sure wanted Flores and think he got the raw deal by the Giants since they never planned on hiring anyone but Daboll.

I still have a salty taste from that offseason till this day.

for the record i'm not either, but he should have had a job

[TerrenceClarke]

The Giants were interviewing dudes like Leslie Frazier and Flores just to meet the rooney rule requirements. Black people see thru those type of games. Frazier for sure was used as a gimmick. smh

Let me chill before I go Ballistic.

[TerrenceClarke]

for the record I was not a fan of EB....But I damn sure wanted Flores and think he got the raw deal by the Giants since they never planned on hiring anyone but Daboll.

I still have a salty taste from that offseason till this day.

for the record i'm not either, but he should have had a job

for sure. At least one chance to fail.

White coaches can fail multiple times and still get a chance.

[mpharris36]

my bad, i didn't mean to derail the thread. i thought this was something that was already known and understood.

didn't realize it'd cause an argument

You would have to give me a specific situation where we passed on a coach or QB for that specific reason though. Otherwise that is a pretty big leap. Like we are willing to have a GM (Jerry Reese) plenty of assistant GM's and coordinators and high paid players that are black. But we won't go as far as the HC or QB? Just seems odd.

Also we were one of the lucky team to have a QB basically in place from 2000 to 2020...in the early 2000's I think only like 15% of QB's starting were black. What did 2023 start with like 14 black QB's started in week 1. So there are a lot more to choose from especially from the college ranks.

Then we drafted Daniel Jones basically to succeed Eli Manning which would have been the only other real opportunity to do that. I guess you can say Haskins (RIP) was the other QB that could have been taken instead of Jones but hard to argue the Giants didn't make the right call in terms of on field production. Jones was a reach at the time anyway but Kyler Murray went 1 and its hard to argue that if the Giants wanted a QB Jones turned out the be the best one of the rest of the bunch

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-what-we-know-about-kyler-murray-daniel-jones-2019-quarterback-class

HC hires is probably another thing. But again we had Tom Coughlin for a while. Now our coaching carousel has been bad I would agree but you would need to give me an example. Brian Flores?

I think I talked with TC about this demeco ryans was my favorite potential HC but Schoen didn't have any connections with him. Turns out Demeco Ryans would have been a great choice so happy I got that right.

I think you gotta look at the overall body of work rather than just a blanket statement. Unfortunately Caleb Williams and Jayden Daniels are the two best QB's in this class and they are going 1 and 2...or I would gladly welcome them on the Giants.

in the early 2000's racism against black QBs was rampant. you remember the talks of having them work out at the combine as WRs because they didn't have the "mental capacity" to play qb at a high level. just because everyone in the league was racist does not absolve the giants of the same. don't forget even lamar not that long ago was asked to work out at wr. it's great that the league is finally moving a good direction though

we could have just not drafted daniel jones and went with another position at the time. the same way we can this year as well. but of course, we had to reach for one.

we went through mcadoo, shurmur and joe judge. no one even knew who joe judge was but we gave him a shot. just saying we never gave a black HC a shot.

I 100% agree with you about that in the early 2000's....which proves my point. It was a league wide issue where the league really didn't buy into black QB's outside of the few outliers there weren't as many being developed and produced at a college level so it took the likes of McNair/McNabb (outside of Cunningham obviously) and others to really jump start black QB's not being moved to other positions and developed at QB.

Like you said the good thing is obviously going in the right direction.

The first 3 QB's in 2023 were black
The likely first 2 QB's off the board this year are black

Clearly there is a positive shift to now if a team is looking for a new QB you obviously have more of a pool to select from. At this point with nearly half the league starting QB's potentially being black I don't really think that is is a requisite anymore to have the slow plotting big tall big arm white QB. If anything its a copy cat league and most teams want to have a dual threat athletic QB behind center nowadays.

[TerrenceClarke]

And if people Bring up Jerry Reese dont forget that Erine Accrorsi practically had to sell the Maras on him. If Ernie did not go out of his way to get Reese the Job I doubt Reese would have gotten it. Reese has still been best GM over the last two by FAR.

The Giants have shown to be the of the least progressive Franchise in the NFL in many ways.

[Ghetto Gospel]

You would have to give me a specific situation where we passed on a coach or QB for that specific reason though. Otherwise that is a pretty big leap. Like we are willing to have a GM (Jerry Reese) plenty of assistant GM's and coordinators and high paid players that are black. But we won't go as far as the HC or QB? Just seems odd.

Also we were one of the lucky team to have a QB basically in place from 2000 to 2020...in the early 2000's I think only like 15% of QB's starting were black. What did 2023 start with like 14 black QB's started in week 1. So there are a lot more to choose from especially from the college ranks.

Then we drafted Daniel Jones basically to succeed Eli Manning which would have been the only other real opportunity to do that. I guess you can say Haskins (RIP) was the other QB that could have been taken instead of Jones but hard to argue the Giants didn't make the right call in terms of on field production. Jones was a reach at the time anyway but Kyler Murray went 1 and its hard to argue that if the Giants wanted a QB Jones turned out the be the best one of the rest of the bunch

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-what-we-know-about-kyler-murray-daniel-jones-2019-quarterback-class

HC hires is probably another thing. But again we had Tom Coughlin for a while. Now our coaching carousel has been bad I would agree but you would need to give me an example. Brian Flores?

I think I talked with TC about this demeco ryans was my favorite potential HC but Schoen didn't have any connections with him. Turns out Demeco Ryans would have been a great choice so happy I got that right.

I think you gotta look at the overall body of work rather than just a blanket statement. Unfortunately Caleb Williams and Jayden Daniels are the two best QB's in this class and they are going 1 and 2...or I would gladly welcome them on the Giants.

in the early 2000's racism against black QBs was rampant. you remember the talks of having them work out at the combine as WRs because they didn't have the "mental capacity" to play qb at a high level. just because everyone in the league was racist does not absolve the giants of the same. don't forget even lamar not that long ago was asked to work out at wr. it's great that the league is finally moving a good direction though

we could have just not drafted daniel jones and went with another position at the time. the same way we can this year as well. but of course, we had to reach for one.

we went through mcadoo, shurmur and joe judge. no one even knew who joe judge was but we gave him a shot. just saying we never gave a black HC a shot.

I 100% agree with you about that in the early 2000's....which proves my point. It was a league wide issue where the league really didn't buy into black QB's outside of the few outliers there weren't as many being developed and produced at a college level so it took the likes of McNair/McNabb (outside of Cunningham obviously) and others to really jump start black QB's not being moved to other positions and developed at QB.

Like you said the good thing is obviously going in the right direction.

The first 3 QB's in 2023 were black
The likely first 2 QB's off the board this year are black

Clearly there is a positive shift to now if a team is looking for a new QB you obviously have more of a pool to select from.

yes but once again that DOES NOT absolve the giants and the league of racism.

the fact that we were the last team in the league to start a black qb, the last team to have a black qb win a game, one of the few teams left that have never had a black hc says something. this team and org do not deserve the benefit of the doubt.

[mpharris36]

eric bieniemy

Bieniemy hasn't gotten a job from any team hard to be on the Giants for that...he has a lot of baggage in his past and if you listen to Shady McCoy he says he has no experience calling or installing plays.

Watch on YouTube

alright then fkn anyone. we gave joe judge a shot who was a nobody and a surprise hiring. the steelers gave mike tomlin a shot who was a nobody and a surprise hiring. of course the nobody we hire is white.

well you are correct there...the one thing the Mara's fall over is there love for Belichick and the Patriots...his coaching tree sucks too its just they love Bill Parcels and BB and think we should follow that mold of HC so when a guy from that tree gets the full support of BB I feel like our organization bends of backwards for them when its just the wrong decision because BB ran the entire ship there and his understudies really are not prepared to run an organization because they don't have the cache to coach like BB.

[Ghetto Gospel]

Bieniemy hasn't gotten a job from any team hard to be on the Giants for that...he has a lot of baggage in his past and if you listen to Shady McCoy he says he has no experience calling or installing plays.

Watch on YouTube

alright then fkn anyone. we gave joe judge a shot who was a nobody and a surprise hiring. the steelers gave mike tomlin a shot who was a nobody and a surprise hiring. of course the nobody we hire is white.

well you are correct there...the one thing the Mara's fall over is there love for Belichick and the Patriots...his coaching tree sucks too its just they love Bill Parcels and BB and think we should follow that mold of HC so when a guy from that tree gets the full support of BB I feel like our organization bends of backwards for them when its just the wrong decision because BB ran the entire ship there and his understudies really are not prepared to run an organization because they don't have the cache to coach like BB.

well brian flores is also in that bill belichick tree but of course, he doesn't "fit the mold"

[TerrenceClarke]

alright then fkn anyone. we gave joe judge a shot who was a nobody and a surprise hiring. the steelers gave mike tomlin a shot who was a nobody and a surprise hiring. of course the nobody we hire is white.

well you are correct there...the one thing the Mara's fall over is there love for Belichick and the Patriots...his coaching tree sucks too its just they love Bill Parcels and BB and think we should follow that mold of HC so when a guy from that tree gets the full support of BB I feel like our organization bends of backwards for them when its just the wrong decision because BB ran the entire ship there and his understudies really are not prepared to run an organization because they don't have the cache to coach like BB.

well brian flores is also in that bill belichick tree but of course, he doesn't "fit the mold"

MPH you gonna had to fall back after this one.