2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - the calm before the storm

[bwgood77]

Seems pretty likely we will play Dallas in the 7-8 play-in game. Though they could move up more if healthy. We still have the 2nd toughest schedule ahead and they have one of the easiest, along with GS and the LAL.

[spanishninja]

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/john-wall-opens-suicide-attempts-160103771.html

yeah...looks like not picking him up was the best idea. His mind may not be right yet.

[lilfishi22]

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/john-wall-opens-suicide-attempts-160103771.html

yeah...looks like not picking him up was the best idea. His mind may not be right yet.

He sounds like he's managing it well

John Wall coped with the loss of his mother and grandmother while also battling injuries in the NBA. He found trouble getting a significant role on rosters but was able to come to terms with his status due to proper mental health practices.

[King4Day]

I'm going to the game in Charlotte tonight.
A rare time I really have no interest in going but I only get them once a year.
I'll continue to follow them after this but there's really nothing to get excited about.

As for the playoffs, I'm not sure if I'd rather see a quick exit to remove all stress for the next few months or get a couple rounds deep to allow hope for next season.

[Calvin Klein]

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/john-wall-opens-suicide-attempts-160103771.html

yeah...looks like not picking him up was the best idea. His mind may not be right yet.

This is what I meant when people keep asking why we don't pick him up. There's always a reason. It's not like team excecs are just stupid and nobody realizes he's available.

[Calvin Klein]

I'm going to the game in Charlotte tonight.
A rare time I really have no interest in going but I only get them once a year.
I'll continue to follow them after this but there's really nothing to get excited about.

As for the playoffs, I'm not sure if I'd rather see a quick exit to remove all stress for the next few months or get a couple rounds deep to allow hope for next season.

same for me unfortunately. This team just doesn't interest me. First time it's happened

[Ghost of Kleine]

I'm going to the game in Charlotte tonight.
A rare time I really have no interest in going but I only get them once a year.
I'll continue to follow them after this but there's really nothing to get excited about.

As for the playoffs, I'm not sure if I'd rather see a quick exit to remove all stress for the next few months or get a couple rounds deep to allow hope for next season.

Yeah, it's a difficult choice in that both outcomes do yield different values but still both could push us forward in our progression:

1- Early Exit
An early exit would return a higher draft pick (asset) to use in a trade whether for another vet depth piece or in a trade back scenario for a cumulative assets acquisition? And then using that to fill out bench depth and shore up positional roster weaknesses. But also carrying more cost controlled talent to leverage going forward now that we have a legit G league affiliate for development.

2- Getting a couple additional rounds of post season play/ experience together
In getting farther into the postseason, we'll gain more significant chemistry to build off of, get to see who offers most legitimate complimentary impact/ consistent production when it matters most so we can create more accurate value tiers for our free agents in approaching free agency ( not that we can really pay them accordingly though anyways).

But in having those more established value tiers, at least we can better prioritize our pitches for key contributors? But more importantly, we'll be better equipped to focus on/ identify key areas of weakness to strategize for so we can better adjust our roster within our fiscal capabilities.

For my part, I'd look to the 1st option of acquiring higher value assets that ARE COST CONTROLLED and/ or could be flipped to address multiple areas of need or depth concerns. OR just straight taking a higher tiered young athletic impact talent to help sustain our core of Book and Beal once Durant departs from our team. I think this option would provide the most successful trajectory and range of options to offset our compounding lack of fiscal flexibility under the new apron penalties.

[sashaturiaf]

Now we just need to utilize the draft cleverly to add rangy, switchable lockdown defenders. AND some more athletic, physical talents / rim protection with size, versatility.

I think we ending in TOP 6 in our conference , so pick would be 18-22

The draft would be weak so I didn’t see any chance to steal like Brandin in previous draft

The draft isn't flush with high end star/superstar level talent. BUT it's still solid with complimentary role players, bench contributors, and even some potential fringe starter/rotation impact options IF scouted carefully. Now for my part I have us finishing somewhere in the early to mid 20s' (20-26 range) and would strongly suggest a "trade back scenario" to try and pick up an additional pick in the 2nd, or some modicum of additional assets to try and address our positional depth issues with young athletic prospects that are actually cost controlled with consideration to our financial situation.

There'll also be a number of really impactful versatile players available from the undrafted pool that we could sign via two ways and exhibit 10s' etc to fill out our bench with long, very athletic, high motor skilled switchable prospects.
(I have my positional lists with more ranges, etc coming yet for the frontcourt options and other outlier hidden gems to be considered).

Get us a backup 5, that should be the priority. Our play goes to **** anytime Nurk sits, and no, Durant at the 5 isn't a long term solution it should be reserved for playoffs.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Trading for KD was a hail mary for the Booker-era Suns, in the same way that trading for Shaq was for the Nash-era. The only difference is that Nash team had a cinderella title bid in 2010 the year after we lost Shaq... man, Channing Frye was so good that season. If only he could have kept it up in the playoffs.

Funny thing is, the Shaq trade nearly worked out. The Suns foolishly hired Terry ("Toilet Paper") Porter to coach that team. TP's only only idea was to publicly snuff Steve Nash. Alvin Gentry took over halfway through the season. IIRC, we looked incredible for a game and a half before someone poked Amare's eye out. We sent Shaq to Cleveland that summer for bupkis.

Going all-in your only move when your team has reached the end of its life cycle. We were stuck because of bad draft picks - wiffed on Jalen Smith, wiffed on Ayton, wiffed on Jackson and Bender and Chriss and Len - and TJ Warren, whom I loved, but who obviously had more than just "injury" issues. And Ennis. NTM Bogdan. Im Not such a **** clown.

I think we'd be sitting around tenth place this season had we not traded for KD. We'd still have our draft picks, but the team would be running in mud. So Ishbia took his chance. I get it. Didn't work, but it made sense to try.

I have watched almost none of our games this season. For me, the die appeared cast pretty early on.

The silver lining is that when Ishbia has to blow this team up, KD's value is obviously much higher than Shaq's or Nash's was at the end of their tenurs, and unlike Amare in 2011, Booker's not about to enter free agency. Trading Nash to the Lakers set the foundation for the rebuild that birthed Devin Booker (and sadly, very little else). I imagine we could begin the process anew by dealing Booker to BKN to get our draft picks back, and sending KD to whichever of his former teams is willing to surrender the most draft picks. Bet Nurk would fetch a FRP, too.

I'm just praying Ishbia has a better taste in GMs than Sarver, and he rocks the rebuild this time. In my dreams, we're running Simmons, Giddey and Herro out there next season and on our way to get dunked by Wemby in the 2030 WCF rather than having to wait until 2040 for the privilege.

P.S. Love you bozos. Y'all die HARD.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I think we ending in TOP 6 in our conference , so pick would be 18-22

The draft would be weak so I didn’t see any chance to steal like Brandin in previous draft

The draft isn't flush with high end star/superstar level talent. BUT it's still solid with complimentary role players, bench contributors, and even some potential fringe starter/rotation impact options IF scouted carefully. Now for my part I have us finishing somewhere in the early to mid 20s' (20-26 range) and would strongly suggest a "trade back scenario" to try and pick up an additional pick in the 2nd, or some modicum of additional assets to try and address our positional depth issues with young athletic prospects that are actually cost controlled with consideration to our financial situation.

There'll also be a number of really impactful versatile players available from the undrafted pool that we could sign via two ways and exhibit 10s' etc to fill out our bench with long, very athletic, high motor skilled switchable prospects.
(I have my positional lists with more ranges, etc coming yet for the frontcourt options and other outlier hidden gems to be considered).

Get us a backup 5, that should be the priority. Our play goes to **** anytime Nurk sits, and no, Durant at the 5 isn't a long term solution it should be reserved for playoffs.

I fully agree with you on this, and I (of course in the draft thread) will be posting more positional lists for frontcourt considerations that'd greatly address those concerns, both in very underrated long, physical, mobile, high motor, elite vertically explosive rim p[rotecting/rebounding 5s' and/or versatile gritty tough but very skilled 4/5s that would easily be in a range of selection for us. And you're very right about Durant playing the 5 in that even though he's immensely talented and smooth, opposing teams will absolutely use the full allowable physicality to wear him down early (as we've seen all too often) reducing his overall effectiveness and durability in each physical playoff series.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Trading for KD was a hail mary for the Booker-era Suns, in the same way that trading for Shaq was for the Nash-era. The only difference is that Nash team had a cinderella title bid in 2010 the year after we lost Shaq... man, Channing Frye was so good that season. If only he could have kept it up in the playoffs.

Funny thing is, the Shaq trade nearly worked out. The Suns foolishly hired Terry ("Toilet Paper") Porter to coach that team. TP's only only idea was to publicly snuff Steve Nash. Alvin Gentry took over halfway through the season. IIRC, we looked incredible for a game and a half before someone poked Amare's eye out. We sent Shaq to Cleveland that summer for bupkis.

Going all-in your only move when your team has reached the end of its life cycle. We were stuck because of bad draft picks - wiffed on Jalen Smith, wiffed on Ayton, wiffed on Jackson and Bender and Chriss and Len - and TJ Warren, whom I loved, but who obviously had more than just "injury" issues. And Ennis. NTM Bogdan. Im Not such a **** clown.

I think we'd be sitting around tenth place this season had we not traded for KD. We'd still have our draft picks, but the team would be running in mud. So Ishbia took his chance. I get it. Didn't work, but it made sense to try.

I have watched almost none of our games this season. For me, the die appeared cast pretty early on.

The silver lining is that when Ishbia has to blow this team up, KD's value is obviously much higher than Shaq's or Nash's was at the end of their tenurs, and unlike Amare in 2011, Booker's not about to enter free agency. Trading Nash to the Lakers set the foundation for the rebuild that birthed Devin Booker (and sadly, very little else). I imagine we could begin the process anew by dealing Booker to BKN to get our draft picks back, and sending KD to whichever of his former teams is willing to surrender the most draft picks. Bet Nurk would fetch a FRP, too.

I'm just praying Ishbia has a better taste in GMs than Sarver, and he rocks the rebuild this time. In my dreams, we're running Simmons, Giddey and Herro out there next season and on our way to get dunked by Wemby in the 2030 WCF rather than having to wait until 2040 for the privilege.

P.S. Love you bozos. Y'all die HARD.

[bwgood77]

Trading for KD was a hail mary for the Booker-era Suns, in the same way that trading for Shaq was for the Nash-era. The only difference is that Nash team had a cinderella title bid in 2010 the year after we lost Shaq... man, Channing Frye was so good that season. If only he could have kept it up in the playoffs.

Funny thing is, the Shaq trade nearly worked out. The Suns foolishly hired Terry ("Toilet Paper") Porter to coach that team. TP's only only idea was to publicly snuff Steve Nash. Alvin Gentry took over halfway through the season. IIRC, we looked incredible for a game and a half before someone poked Amare's eye out. We sent Shaq to Cleveland that summer for bupkis.

Going all-in your only move when your team has reached the end of its life cycle. We were stuck because of bad draft picks - wiffed on Jalen Smith, wiffed on Ayton, wiffed on Jackson and Bender and Chriss and Len - and TJ Warren, whom I loved, but who obviously had more than just "injury" issues. And Ennis. NTM Bogdan. Im Not such a **** clown.

I think we'd be sitting around tenth place this season had we not traded for KD. We'd still have our draft picks, but the team would be running in mud. So Ishbia took his chance. I get it. Didn't work, but it made sense to try.

I have watched almost none of our games this season. For me, the die appeared cast pretty early on.

The silver lining is that when Ishbia has to blow this team up, KD's value is obviously much higher than Shaq's or Nash's was at the end of their tenurs, and unlike Amare in 2011, Booker's not about to enter free agency. Trading Nash to the Lakers set the foundation for the rebuild that birthed Devin Booker (and sadly, very little else). I imagine we could begin the process anew by dealing Booker to BKN to get our draft picks back, and sending KD to whichever of his former teams is willing to surrender the most draft picks. Bet Nurk would fetch a FRP, too.

I'm just praying Ishbia has a better taste in GMs than Sarver, and he rocks the rebuild this time. In my dreams, we're running Simmons, Giddey and Herro out there next season and on our way to get dunked by Wemby in the 2030 WCF rather than having to wait until 2040 for the privilege.

P.S. Love you bozos. Y'all die HARD.

So I read this thinking it's an argument the KD trade was a good move, though I was thinking about it a bit afterwards and thinking, "so trading Bridges, Cam, Crowder 4 unprotected 1sts and an unprotected swap to win now has gotten us 3-4 more wins?" The good thing is he's been healthy. This is his healthiest season in 5 years....so I guess it could be worse.

But Booker is only 27, or had only just turned 26 last year when the trade was made, and Bridges was 26 and Cam 27. Those are the same ages Jokic was 2 or 3 years ago.

Obviously I didn't like the KD trade, but I would have retooled, kept the picks, traded Jae for Grayson Allen, made our draft pick last year....and maybe watch for a smaller more savvy trade if one presented itself.

A core of Booker/Mikal/Cam has 8-10 years left, and if you have guys like Allen as a role player and then whoever you get for Ayton, could potentially have a big window if you view Booker as MVP caliber. I would have still done the Beal trade, and I definitely think where Washington is and the fact our CEO is the son of his agent. I think he would have wanted to come play with Book and Bridges...Bridges always being voted one of the best teammates. Bridges is not great as a first option, though he can put up #s, but is great as a 2nd or especially a third....and you have guys like Cam and Allen to shoot 3s, and then a return for Ayton...maybe Jokic, maybe someone younger if possible.

Anyway, then you do have Beal, and it's a big contract, but you compete now but you have the core and picks to compete in the future.

I don't really expect us to trade KD. He has two more seasons on his contract and I expect us to keep him. He is already 35 though and after his contract ends he will be 38 to start the following season. I suppose we could trade him in the last year of his contract near the deadline if we are not very good and it's a team over the cap who needs to trade for him to re-sign him. But he won't net us a bunch of picks. I imagine he would get us somewhat similar to the return we gave up for Chris Paul....or maybe Lillard....but that might be lucky...they were 35 and 33.

It sucks to already dislike the team enough to not really watch them though. Though I guess you have a lot more free time and will likely continue to do so for the next decade....though by then you will probably forget you were even a Suns fan. Though maybe a start of a rebuild will get your juices flowing...I remember you talking a lot about who to pick in those Bender/Chriss years, loving Josh Jackson, all the talk during the Ayton draft, etc...even calling the Jalen Smith pick.

[sunsbg]

I just hope the next over 30 star Ishbia brings to pair with Booker is a true PG. Even if the team is meh like this one having a floor general just makes watching the games more enjoyable. This ISO bs and stupid TOs is really annoying a lot of the time.

[Hitachi77]

Seems pretty likely we will play Dallas in the 7-8 play-in game. Though they could move up more if healthy. We still have the 2nd toughest schedule ahead and they have one of the easiest, along with GS and the LAL.

Agreed that’s the most likely scenario. But I looked at the remaining schedules of all teams. We still have a good chance at the 6 which, if against the Twolves, is the best case scenario. Also we have actually gained a game vs the Mavs in the last 10, despite having a much tougher schedule.

[Son of Ra]

Off topic to he current discussion but was it ever explained how it made sense hat 7&8 and 9&10 play each other in the play in? So from the get go a worse team is guaranteed a spot over a better one? Why not 7&10 and 8&9? Excuse my choice of words but that's absolutely idiotic.

[Calvin Klein]

Off topic to he current discussion but was it ever explained how it made sense hat 7&8 and 9&10 play each other in the play in? So from the get go a worse team is guaranteed a spot over a better one? Why not 7&10 and 8&9? Excuse my choice of words but that's absolutely idiotic.

9 and 10 are NOT guaranteed anything. They need to win two games to make the playoffs. 7 and 8 only need to win once.

What doesn’t make sense to me is not having a game difference limit on who makes it. Chicago and Atlanta are like 4 games behind the 8th seed. They should not have the chance to eliminate the 7 and 8 seed from the playoffs. It wouldn’t be just unfair but it would also make a much more terrible 1sr round matchup against the best team in the conference.

[sunsbg]

Prediction for next 5 (@MIL, PHI, ATL, @SAS, @SAS) ? I wish 5-0/4-1 but more likely L, W, W, L, W. 3-2 will be bad with what's coming next.

[Iceman36]

In German hockey we have pre-Playoffs. 7 - 10 and 8 - 9 in a best of three series. Winner of each series takes spot 7 and 8 of the playoffs regarding position of the end ranking. Quite fair system I think.

[garrick]

Trading for KD was a hail mary for the Booker-era Suns, in the same way that trading for Shaq was for the Nash-era. The only difference is that Nash team had a cinderella title bid in 2010 the year after we lost Shaq... man, Channing Frye was so good that season. If only he could have kept it up in the playoffs.

Funny thing is, the Shaq trade nearly worked out. The Suns foolishly hired Terry ("Toilet Paper") Porter to coach that team. TP's only only idea was to publicly snuff Steve Nash. Alvin Gentry took over halfway through the season. IIRC, we looked incredible for a game and a half before someone poked Amare's eye out. We sent Shaq to Cleveland that summer for bupkis.

Going all-in your only move when your team has reached the end of its life cycle. We were stuck because of bad draft picks - wiffed on Jalen Smith, wiffed on Ayton, wiffed on Jackson and Bender and Chriss and Len - and TJ Warren, whom I loved, but who obviously had more than just "injury" issues. And Ennis. NTM Bogdan. Im Not such a **** clown.

I think we'd be sitting around tenth place this season had we not traded for KD. We'd still have our draft picks, but the team would be running in mud. So Ishbia took his chance. I get it. Didn't work, but it made sense to try.

I have watched almost none of our games this season. For me, the die appeared cast pretty early on.

The silver lining is that when Ishbia has to blow this team up, KD's value is obviously much higher than Shaq's or Nash's was at the end of their tenurs, and unlike Amare in 2011, Booker's not about to enter free agency. Trading Nash to the Lakers set the foundation for the rebuild that birthed Devin Booker (and sadly, very little else). I imagine we could begin the process anew by dealing Booker to BKN to get our draft picks back, and sending KD to whichever of his former teams is willing to surrender the most draft picks. Bet Nurk would fetch a FRP, too.

I'm just praying Ishbia has a better taste in GMs than Sarver, and he rocks the rebuild this time. In my dreams, we're running Simmons, Giddey and Herro out there next season and on our way to get dunked by Wemby in the 2030 WCF rather than having to wait until 2040 for the privilege.





P.S. Love you bozos. Y'all die HARD.

I just don't see any team wanting KD or Beal so I can see Ishbia trading Booker in his prime because out of the big 3 he's the youngest and still in his prime. Mat has no loyalty to Booker unlike Sarver so I'm sure he wouldn't flinch at making a ballsy move like that even if the move would irk longtime Suns fans.

[Calvin Klein]

I just don't see any team wanting KD or Beal so I can see Ishbia trading Booker in his prime because out of the big 3 he's the youngest and still in his prime. Mat has no loyalty to Booker unlike Sarver so I'm sure he wouldn't flinch at making a ballsy move like that even if the move would irk longtime Suns fans.

I have a hard time seeing Booker staying in Phoenix if this team doesn't work out, which is the most likely scenario.
He got the "superteam" bug unfortunately now.