madvillian wrote:coldfish wrote:dougthonus wrote:
Yeah, I agree that would drive more parity (and we'd never do it).
To be honest, I don't think the offense is even really a problem at all anyway. I think people saying this is why ratings are down are chock full of fundamental attribution error.
From my perspective, the game isn't as mentally interesting as it was 10 years ago. Virtually everyone in the league is running the same tactics and concepts. I used to get entertainment value from watching the chess matches unfold with varying strategies. Nowadays its all about who executes the scheme better (ie. makes their shots).
I have difficulty believing I'm your typical fan though. I watched the Cavs-Wolves game live early this week from the floor and the skills and speed was breathtaking. If someone is into basketball they are probably going to be entertained by what is going on. Any ratings issues are likely far more complex.
Yea, it's the people that watch the most basketball that are the most turned off. The more casual fans appreciate the speed and skill. We appreciate it to, it just gets old watching everybody play the same style and there's only so many times you can watch Brook Lopez nail a corner three before you stop appreciating his skill and start wondering if the line is too close at this point.
I'm curious for either of you, what do you think is now missing that used to exist?
I'd say 90s offense was _by far_ the least interesting, it was mostly banging in the low post and clear outs for star players. Not to say either of you are rooting for 90s offense.
Today, most offense is now variants of 4 out / 5 out with lots of spacing, the play types that are then wrapped around that seem more diverse than the 90s to me. Maybe there was a golden age in the early early 2005-2015 era that was different or are we talking about 90s style stuff? To me, the stuff you were running earlier outside of all the post ups / mid post stuff was mostly the same stuff you're running in the 4 out / 5 out, just that you were spacing guys for mid range jumpers because they couldn't shoot.
You still see all the pick and rolls, back picks, basket cuts, dribble hand offs, weaves, multi-cuts, and all the variations, plus there is way more complexity in the transition game and early offense game than their used to be as teams realized that it's not just about getting a layup on a fast break, but that if you execute in the first 7 seconds the defense has a lesser chance of being set.
What are all the plays and styles of play that are gone that you would enjoy seeing more of? I still feel like there's a similar level of strategy in both offense in defense in terms of how you hunt matchups and defend. Certainly when they started allowing zones, the defense became way more interesting than prior to that point.
The main thing that feels gone to me is post offense and clear outs, and I can't imagine a more boring style of offense than either of those. I'm not saying either of you are wrong in this sentiment, I'm just curious if you have specific examples of something you saw in the past that you don't see today that you want back?
The end result of the plays is definitely a lot more three pointers, but the way we get to them doesn't seem universal or more repetitive than any other era of offense to me. Just in the earlier days you'd have your big man setting up like Haslem or PJ Brown for a mid range base line shot instead of a 3, but the action to get that shot is no different, just the shot is more valuable now.
That said, I'm definitely more of an analytical guy than an Xs and Os guy, though I understand the basic playtypes.