31to6 wrote:No need to bring DWhite into this, who was a known quality quantity coming to BOS.
That's besides the point.
Point is, we didn't see the real Derrick until after he had a full offseason and full training camp with the team. Before that, he struggled offensively - was pretty much afraid to shoot the basketball.
We've seen a massive difference between Derrick during his first 25 (or so) games with Boston compared to Derrick after his 1st 25 or so games in Boston. So it's a little bit silly to be so critical of a guy after only playing 38 minutes (all garbage time) for Boston, after being acquired mid-season and coming off an injury.
31to6 wrote:But keep it simple and look at the two guys acquired at the deadline this year:
Xavier Tillman and he has come in, carved out a role, and is posting some great advanced stats, e.g., W/S per 48 of 0.18, BPM 0.7 (1.8 defensively), TS% of 0.65(!), and PER of 14.8 in 7 games (108 minutes) with Boston. He is 25.2 years old.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/tillmxa01.html#all_advanced-playoffs_advanced
Jaden Springer has come in, looked like Rick Fox with his hair grown out a bit (this intrigues me, I loved BOS Rick Fox), and shown nothing yet. Nine games, just 38 minutes, and he's putting up a *negative* WS/48 (-0.15), a BPM of -16.3 (lol; 'only' -2.1 defensively:), a TS% of 0.27 (ack), and a *negative* PER, that value is -2.2. My friend, newly reformed so as to be less combative, those numbers -- while garbage time, and few -- are pure butt cheeks.
Those numbers are pretty much meaningless on such a small sample size of games and minutes.
So one of them has gotten up to speed quicker than the other. Ok? That's simply stating the obvious. No one on here (or anywhere) has ever claimed Springer is better than Tillman, so posting these numbers isn't very productive.
Of course the guy who is 4 years older, has much more NBA experience and much more playoff experience is going to be better. Does this really need to be said?
It's pointless imo to post a bunch of advanced stats for a guy who has played in only 9 games and a measly 4 minutes per game with literally all of those mins being garbage time. Yes, I consider the wizards game garbage time. Both teams were resting half their team (C's missing 3 starters, Wizards resting all 5 starters) and the C's were up by like 28 before Springer went in the game.
Of course Tillman's numbers will be better. He's actually played with starters and has played a good chunk of mins alongside our other top 8 guys, whereas Springer has mostly just played with our 3rd stringers.
Just because Tillman has started off well early on his Celtics career, it doesn't change the fact that other role players who have been added to the team recently did not start off so well but eventually played much better. You've got White, Kornet, Hauser, Brissett as I mentioned in my previous post. But also Grant (missed his first 25 threes but ended up being a 40% 3 pt shooter. Nesmith (we gave up on him when he was only like 22 but then he ends up being an awesome 3&D guy in Indy. After we acquired him in a mid-season trade, Fournier's numbers were not nearly as good in Boston as they were in Orlando.. because it typically takes time (especially for role players) to get up to speed with a new team.
We all thought Moe Wagner was horrible when he was in Boston..but maybe we just didn't give him enough of a chance? Maybe he was a mid0season acquisition, and still young, still early in his career, still developing? He's done pretty well in Orlando. And he's also a guy who is more of a defensive player - more limited on offense so more of an apples to apples comparison..
31to6 wrote: Does anyone like Jaden Springer yet? Any Springer Island investors out there? I've got Hal down as likely the first.
I wouldn't say that. I don't think it's necessary to form such a definitive opinion one way or the other. Again, he's 21 yrs old, just got acquired mid-season, has only played garbage time so far. 9 games, only 4 mins per game.
We probably won't have a great idea of how good he is or how impactful he will be for Boston till sometime next season.
This obsession to get instant gratification, see instant production and form a definitive opinion about a player so quickly is counter-productive, IMO. I mean, half this board wanted Udoka fired after 20 games coach. Those people ended up looking silly in the long run. After his first 20 games in boston, lots of people weren't too wild about Jrue either - they were saying Smart was better, or that it wasn't even an upgrade going from Smart to Jrue...no one is saying that now..