KillahGhostface wrote:Isn’t his problem that the ball doesn’t go in often enough?
I'm not positive but I think he was talking about Brogdon when he said that.
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KillahGhostface wrote:Isn’t his problem that the ball doesn’t go in often enough?
Patsfan1081 wrote:I would have rather kept the Bulls pick somewhere in the 40’s.
jfs1000d wrote:Guys. Brad did not have time to make this trade. He wanted Springs, and he did it knowing that kid won’t play. He is going to pick up the option. And sign an Aaron Nesmith -like deal.
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sam_I_am wrote:jfs1000d wrote:Guys. Brad did not have time to make this trade. He wanted Springs, and he did it knowing that kid won’t play. He is going to pick up the option. And sign an Aaron Nesmith -like deal.
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I don’t mind the idea of developing him but I like it better on a Jordan Walsh type contract. Maybe we don’t keep PP or Holiday. I was intrigued when they signed him but he doesn’t look good enough to keep at $4 million, let alone $11 million Nesmith makes.
sam_I_am wrote:I don’t see any scenario where the Celtics pay this guy $4 million going forward. He looks to be 2-3 years away from helping this team. Trading his $4 million for a veteran ready to give playoff minutes next year is just a no-brainer.
sam_I_am wrote:jfs1000d wrote:Guys. Brad did not have time to make this trade. He wanted Springs, and he did it knowing that kid won’t play. He is going to pick up the option. And sign an Aaron Nesmith -like deal.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don’t mind the idea of developing him but I like it better on a Jordan Walsh type contract. Maybe we don’t keep PP or Holiday. I was intrigued when they signed him but he doesn’t look good enough to keep at $4 million, let alone $11 million Nesmith makes.
Hal14 wrote:sam_I_am wrote:jfs1000d wrote:Guys. Brad did not have time to make this trade. He wanted Springs, and he did it knowing that kid won’t play. He is going to pick up the option. And sign an Aaron Nesmith -like deal.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don’t mind the idea of developing him but I like it better on a Jordan Walsh type contract. Maybe we don’t keep PP or Holiday. I was intrigued when they signed him but he doesn’t look good enough to keep at $4 million, let alone $11 million Nesmith makes.
$4 mil is nothing in today's NBA. Especially with the way the cap keeps going up and up..
sam_I_am wrote:Hal14 wrote:sam_I_am wrote:
I don’t mind the idea of developing him but I like it better on a Jordan Walsh type contract. Maybe we don’t keep PP or Holiday. I was intrigued when they signed him but he doesn’t look good enough to keep at $4 million, let alone $11 million Nesmith makes.
$4 mil is nothing in today's NBA. Especially with the way the cap keeps going up and up..
I mean….that’s just not true. Look at our roster. Outside of the ‘starting 6’, only PP makes more than 2 million and he only makes 4 million. Banton and Stevens each made 2 million and they showed a lot more to me than Springer has so far ….. although I understand but you can allow for age and upside in case of Springer.
When you are stretching $17 million to pay 9 players……$4 mil on a g-leaguer is too much IMO.
I think Springer’s value to this team is that they get to see up close if he has what it takes to be better and if not…..his bump in salary gives Brad trade ballast. I can only see how he looks in garbage time but based on that I’m ready to move on already.
sam_I_am wrote:Hal14 wrote:sam_I_am wrote:
I don’t mind the idea of developing him but I like it better on a Jordan Walsh type contract. Maybe we don’t keep PP or Holiday. I was intrigued when they signed him but he doesn’t look good enough to keep at $4 million, let alone $11 million Nesmith makes.
$4 mil is nothing in today's NBA. Especially with the way the cap keeps going up and up..
I mean….that’s just not true. Look at our roster. Outside of the ‘starting 6’, only PP makes more than 2 million and he only makes 4 million.
I can only see how he looks in garbage time but based on that I’m ready to move on already.
Homerclease wrote:sam_I_am wrote:Hal14 wrote:$4 mil is nothing in today's NBA. Especially with the way the cap keeps going up and up..
I mean….that’s just not true. Look at our roster. Outside of the ‘starting 6’, only PP makes more than 2 million and he only makes 4 million. Banton and Stevens each made 2 million and they showed a lot more to me than Springer has so far ….. although I understand but you can allow for age and upside in case of Springer.
When you are stretching $17 million to pay 9 players……$4 mil on a g-leaguer is too much IMO.
I think Springer’s value to this team is that they get to see up close if he has what it takes to be better and if not…..his bump in salary gives Brad trade ballast. I can only see how he looks in garbage time but based on that I’m ready to move on already.
It’s not too much, because they got him with the TPE. It was either let the TPE expire or buy a scratch ticket. Given their limited number of ways to add to the team, the juice is worth the squeeze as long as ownership is fine paying the tax bill
24istheLAW wrote:Yeah. If there were some sign of life from him as a P&R ballhandler, you'd say fine, we can live with the lack of a shot, just chase the ball around. But it doesn't look like he has any halfcourt offensive game at all. And his size isn't screaming wing stopper either. Offensive black hole + lack of size on the defensive end is a tough way to make an NBA living.
Hal14 wrote:KillahGhostface wrote:Isn’t his problem that the ball doesn’t go in often enough?
I'm not positive but I think he was talking about Brogdon when he said that.
24istheLAW wrote:sam_I_am wrote:I don’t see any scenario where the Celtics pay this guy $4 million going forward. He looks to be 2-3 years away from helping this team. Trading his $4 million for a veteran ready to give playoff minutes next year is just a no-brainer.
Yeah. If there were some sign of life from him as a P&R ballhandler, you'd say fine, we can live with the lack of a shot, just chase the ball around. But it doesn't look like he has any halfcourt offensive game at all. And his size isn't screaming wing stopper either. Offensive black hole + lack of size on the defensive end is a tough way to make an NBA living.
Parliament10 wrote:Homerclease wrote:sam_I_am wrote:
I mean….that’s just not true. Look at our roster. Outside of the ‘starting 6’, only PP makes more than 2 million and he only makes 4 million. Banton and Stevens each made 2 million and they showed a lot more to me than Springer has so far ….. although I understand but you can allow for age and upside in case of Springer.
When you are stretching $17 million to pay 9 players……$4 mil on a g-leaguer is too much IMO.
I think Springer’s value to this team is that they get to see up close if he has what it takes to be better and if not…..his bump in salary gives Brad trade ballast. I can only see how he looks in garbage time but based on that I’m ready to move on already.
It’s not too much, because they got him with the TPE. It was either let the TPE expire or buy a scratch ticket. Given their limited number of ways to add to the team, the juice is worth the squeeze as long as ownership is fine paying the tax bill
Springer is getting $4M next year.
He's not worth it; not worth more than all those players (half the Team). IJS
UHar_Vinnie wrote:If you don't lean forward while hugging a dude, you are gonna have a wiener touching incident. You know this.
cl2117 wrote:I agree with Homerclease that the best way to look at Springer is as a TPE scratch ticket.
I honestly think that if we had kept the Bulls 2nd (projected at #42) and traded the Dallas 2nd (projected at #48) people would be more bullish on the trade (and I include myself in that). Which is kind of ridiculous considering there are only 5 picks separating those two in the 2024 draft, but the optics would be better.
He's most likely a "2nd draft"/"2nd contract" type of player, so I don't think it's wise to have any significant expectations for him this year or next. Shooting is the single hardest skillset to develop in basketball in my opinion, so I'm always wary of guys whose potential hinges on getting better in that area. Most never are able to make enough strides.
I do think it really bodes well for him though that both Sam Cassell and another one of our assistants coached him in Philly and vouched for him. Between that and Brad liking him since the draft, I'm fine burning a mid-2nd that'd end up a two-way or a stash on the slim chance that he can be league average offensively eventually. That's all it would take for him to be a viable rotation piece.
Being more realistic he offers us two things:
1) an on-ball wing defender whose shown the ability to lock down even the best scorers at times
I love adding guys with at least 1 elite skill to the back end of the bench. I want 1-2 guys like Oshae who can be a jack of all trades, master of none and can fill a lot of holes, but I'll take specialists with the rest of the spots.
Even if he doesn't develop offensively, we've got such a stacked team I think Joe can still find minutes for him where he impacts the game by face guarding opposing studs for stretches (even if it's just in the regular season).
2) a $4m salary slot that can be used to acquire guys making slightly more than the minimum in trades
The list of guys you can get by trading Springer instead of a minimum contract guy is very limited (it's around 50 guys right now), but it's still providing more options than what we'd have ordinarily. That's got heightened significance now that we're going to be restricted by the 2nd apron conditions and can't stack small salaries to match larger ones. I wouldn't be surprised if we gave him the qualifying offer or even overpaid him by more than that on a 2 year deal with the 2nd year non-guaranteed so that he could be moved later with draft capital on for a better player. GM's are going to have to be more creative in finding ways to add salary without breaking down more expensive contracts for parts.
Hal14 wrote:I agree with most of this, but 2 things I would add.
1) I think shooting is actually the easiest skill to improve for college/NBA players. Derrick was not a good shooter before boston and look what he's doing now. Grant missed his first 25 threes in the NBA (was not a shooter in college either) but worked his butt off to then hit 36% from 3 and the year after that was at 40%. Jordan Walsh went from 27% last season in college, worked his butt off in the summer and then shot like 41% during summer league and (last i checked) was around 36% this season in G League.
*snip*
2) Minor detail here but I don't really see Oshae as a jack of all trades, master of none type of guy. I think he *is* a specialist. I think he's a rebounding/hustle/energy specialist. Our rebounding numbers as a team are off the charts when he's in the game.
UHar_Vinnie wrote:If you don't lean forward while hugging a dude, you are gonna have a wiener touching incident. You know this.