NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 4: MVP Thread's Revenge)

[ForeverTFC]

Why does playoff success get held against some candidates and not others?

Can you elaborate?

Joker, Tatum and Giannis have all had the playoffs taken into account in their MVP candidacy.

I see SGA is now #1 on some MVP trackers and he hasn’t been out of the first round.

Jokic and Giannis won MVPs before achieving much in the playoffs - Giannis especially. All Giannis had before his first one was first round exits.

When it comes to Tatum, it's honestly more of an excuse. People just don't think he's good enough to be considered a top 5 player so they throw all the various excuses out there. We rarely hold playoff performance against guys during their first MVP season.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Can you elaborate?

Joker, Tatum and Giannis have all had the playoffs taken into account in their MVP candidacy.

I see SGA is now #1 on some MVP trackers and he hasn’t been out of the first round.

Jokic and Giannis won MVPs before achieving much in the playoffs - Giannis especially. All Giannis had before his first one was first round exits.

When it comes to Tatum, it's honestly more of an excuse. People just don't think he's good enough to be considered a top 5 player so they throw all the various excuses out there. We rarely hold playoff performance against guys during their first MVP season.

I mean it’s a regular season award posters might be making that argument but it’s not part of the criteria.

[Exp0sed]

Not much talk of Jokic struggling last night and another MVP candidate beating him in the process.

Luka's coming...

he had a bad game by his standards for sure and still he was there to tie the game, if the ball went to him instead of Murray on the final possesion the Nuggets would have come back from Texas with a win most likely

Dallas is a good team, Luka and Kyrie are unstoppable together when they are rollin' I don't think any of the top teams wants to get them in the first, holy moly

that's how good Jokic is, his team goes 11-1 after the break on the back of his stellar game and one mediocre game, in a tough road loss to a great and motivitaed team is somehow worth mentioning..

even in this stinker he had 16/11/7 with 2 steals and was a +10 for the game..

but sure, that loss hurt him and if the Mavs can get into the top 4-5 I think Luka is going to get plenty of votes and rightfully so

[dygaction]

Can you elaborate?

Joker, Tatum and Giannis have all had the playoffs taken into account in their MVP candidacy.

I see SGA is now #1 on some MVP trackers and he hasn’t been out of the first round.

Jokic and Giannis won MVPs before achieving much in the playoffs - Giannis especially. All Giannis had before his first one was first round exits.

When it comes to Tatum, it's honestly more of an excuse. People just don't think he's good enough to be considered a top 5 player so they throw all the various excuses out there. We rarely hold playoff performance against guys during their first MVP season.

Right, no playoffs performance or pressure is needed for first MVP. KG and Rose also won it before winning a playoff series.

[Exp0sed]

btw, since Jokic said publicly he thinks Luka should win it and is obviously tanking his campaign again because he doesn't want to do a single interview or ceremony he doesn't have to..who knows, maybe he tanked the MVP for his buddy Luka haha

jk

[AleksandarN]

btw, since Jokic said publicly he thinks Luka should win it and is obviously tanking his campaign again because he doesn't want to do a single interview or ceremony he doesn't have to..who knows, maybe he tanked the MVP for his buddy Luka haha

jk

Where is the interview. I didn’t see it anywhere. Only a tweet saying he did. I watched he post game interview in the locker room and it wasn’t in that interview.

[Exp0sed]

btw, since Jokic said publicly he thinks Luka should win it and is obviously tanking his campaign again because he doesn't want to do a single interview or ceremony he doesn't have to..who knows, maybe he tanked the MVP for his buddy Luka haha

jk

Where is the interview. I didn’t see it anywhere. Only a tweet saying he did. I watched he post game interview in the locker room and it wasn’t in that interview.

haha, I actually saw the same tweet and not the actual footage, so maybe he didn't say it and some1 just made it up?

[Cubbies2120]

Not much talk of Jokic struggling last night and another MVP candidate beating him in the process.

Luka's coming...

Could be because they're 11-2 since the all-star game and that outweighs a 16/11/7/2 pedestrian performance (where the Nuggets were +10 with Jokic on the court).

Doncic 'struggled' as well by those standards, shooting 44%, only 3 assists, and a net -1 with him on the court. He scored a lot of points and hit a key shot after blowing a 13 point lead with 6 mins left though.

I think the body of work for the entire season outweighs 1-2 game sample sizes this late in the season especially when one team is fighting for the #1 seed and one is fighting to stay out of the play-in.

Yes those +/- were for sure, like always, representative. Jokic 16 points with 16 shots had a great game, + 10. Luka much worse game with - 1, 37 points with 27 shots and crucial 3. But still much better than Lively, who had disastrous game, 14 points, only 1 missed shot, 8 rebounds and 2 blocks, and - 18 +/-.

I believe future of basketball might be without box score. We will just look at +/- and see, who was the best. In this game Doncic and Irwing with 61/17/12, wining the game in last 30 seconds, had only +5. Jokic and Gordon with 27/19/11 and impressive + 22 dominated them. Luckily for Mavs, Luka and Kyrie had much better teammates, who btw. went 0/13 for 3. The most impressive player from the bench THJ with 1 point and +2.

That's one way to respond - pick only one part of the post, and exaggerate entirely to avoid responding to the rest of the post.

+- is a PART of the picture, not the whole picture, nor did I claim that. But go off, son, do your thing!

[Bob8]

Could be because they're 11-2 since the all-star game and that outweighs a 16/11/7/2 pedestrian performance (where the Nuggets were +10 with Jokic on the court).

Doncic 'struggled' as well by those standards, shooting 44%, only 3 assists, and a net -1 with him on the court. He scored a lot of points and hit a key shot after blowing a 13 point lead with 6 mins left though.

I think the body of work for the entire season outweighs 1-2 game sample sizes this late in the season especially when one team is fighting for the #1 seed and one is fighting to stay out of the play-in.

Yes those +/- were for sure, like always, representative. Jokic 16 points with 16 shots had a great game, + 10. Luka much worse game with - 1, 37 points with 27 shots and crucial 3. But still much better than Lively, who had disastrous game, 14 points, only 1 missed shot, 8 rebounds and 2 blocks, and - 18 +/-.

I believe future of basketball might be without box score. We will just look at +/- and see, who was the best. In this game Doncic and Irwing with 61/17/12, wining the game in last 30 seconds, had only +5. Jokic and Gordon with 27/19/11 and impressive + 22 dominated them. Luckily for Mavs, Luka and Kyrie had much better teammates, who btw. went 0/13 for 3. The most impressive player from the bench THJ with 1 point and +2.

That's one way to respond - pick only one part of the post, and exaggerate entirely to avoid responding to the rest of the post.

+- is a PART of the picture, not the whole picture, nor did I claim that. But go off, son, do your thing!

You claimed that both struggled similarly. Luka might not had his best game, but 37 points with better efficiency is still much better than 16 points with 16 shots.

About assists and +/-. Mavs role players were shooting 0/13 for 3, if they had normal shooting night, Luka's +/- and assist number would have been different. He had 15 potential assists.

+/- is unreliable stat even in bigger sample sizes. Talking about it in a single game is total nonsense.

I read how Nuggets are saying that they have lost because they had bad game. Maybe they should look at how bad shooting night Mavs had. I don't believe Mavs have won a game in last few years in which nobody outside Luka and Kyrie hit a 3.

[Jaqua92]

Yes those +/- were for sure, like always, representative. Jokic 16 points with 16 shots had a great game, + 10. Luka much worse game with - 1, 37 points with 27 shots and crucial 3. But still much better than Lively, who had disastrous game, 14 points, only 1 missed shot, 8 rebounds and 2 blocks, and - 18 +/-.

I believe future of basketball might be without box score. We will just look at +/- and see, who was the best. In this game Doncic and Irwing with 61/17/12, wining the game in last 30 seconds, had only +5. Jokic and Gordon with 27/19/11 and impressive + 22 dominated them. Luckily for Mavs, Luka and Kyrie had much better teammates, who btw. went 0/13 for 3. The most impressive player from the bench THJ with 1 point and +2.

That's one way to respond - pick only one part of the post, and exaggerate entirely to avoid responding to the rest of the post.

+- is a PART of the picture, not the whole picture, nor did I claim that. But go off, son, do your thing!

You claimed that both struggled similarly. Luka might not had his best game, but 37 points with better efficiency is still much better than 16 points with 16 shots.

About assists and +/-. Mavs role players were shooting 0/13 for 3, if they had normal shooting night, Luka's +/- and assist number would have been different. He had 15 potential assists.

+/- is unreliable stat even in bigger sample sizes. Talking about it in a single game is total nonsense.

I read how Nuggets are saying that they have lost because they had bad game. Maybe they should look at how bad shooting night Mavs had. I don't believe Mavs have won a game in last few years in which nobody outside Luka and Kyrie hit a 3.

Isn't that indicative of how bad Denver was then?

Murray and Jokic had probably their worst shooting game in well over a year.

[Bob8]

That's one way to respond - pick only one part of the post, and exaggerate entirely to avoid responding to the rest of the post.

+- is a PART of the picture, not the whole picture, nor did I claim that. But go off, son, do your thing!

You claimed that both struggled similarly. Luka might not had his best game, but 37 points with better efficiency is still much better than 16 points with 16 shots.

About assists and +/-. Mavs role players were shooting 0/13 for 3, if they had normal shooting night, Luka's +/- and assist number would have been different. He had 15 potential assists.

+/- is unreliable stat even in bigger sample sizes. Talking about it in a single game is total nonsense.

I read how Nuggets are saying that they have lost because they had bad game. Maybe they should look at how bad shooting night Mavs had. I don't believe Mavs have won a game in last few years in which nobody outside Luka and Kyrie hit a 3.

Isn't that indicative of how bad Denver was then?

Murray and Jokic had probably their worst shooting game in well over a year.

Narrative goes like that, we have almost won while having bad game and Mavs played well. Truth is that Mavs had catastrophic shooting for 3 and still won. The reason for that is much improved D and rebounding. Mavs look pretty dominant in the paint lately.

[Jaqua92]

You claimed that both struggled similarly. Luka might not had his best game, but 37 points with better efficiency is still much better than 16 points with 16 shots.

About assists and +/-. Mavs role players were shooting 0/13 for 3, if they had normal shooting night, Luka's +/- and assist number would have been different. He had 15 potential assists.

+/- is unreliable stat even in bigger sample sizes. Talking about it in a single game is total nonsense.

I read how Nuggets are saying that they have lost because they had bad game. Maybe they should look at how bad shooting night Mavs had. I don't believe Mavs have won a game in last few years in which nobody outside Luka and Kyrie hit a 3.

Isn't that indicative of how bad Denver was then?

Murray and Jokic had probably their worst shooting game in well over a year.

Narrative goes like that, we have almost won while having bad game and Mavs played well. Truth is that Mavs had catastrophic shooting for 3 and still won. The reason for that is much improved D and rebounding. Mavs look pretty dominant in the paint lately.

The narrative I'm suggesting isn't that. Both teams weren't great. Denver was just closer to their floor.

[CharityStripe34]

Luka just won the MVP tonight. Jokic robbed back to back years.

Calling it here. Narrative changes.

That would be a disaster. 4th is fine.

[HotRocks34]

After Dallas beat Denver, Jokic's numbers got a bit worse, SGA's stayed the same and Luka's got better. Giannis not in the zone.

[Petergrifindor]

The narrative I'm suggesting isn't that. Both teams weren't great. Denver was just closer to their floor.

This is correct.

Even if Dallas couldn't make a shot, Denver was demolished in rebounding, and Jokic played poorly.

You are not going to see many Denver games like that during a season, while Dallas missing threes happens once a forth-night.

[LessEyeTest]

Jokic cooking the Timberwolves and showing them what's in store during the playoffs. 22 points at half, easy dub-dub.

[Cubbies2120]

Yes those +/- were for sure, like always, representative. Jokic 16 points with 16 shots had a great game, + 10. Luka much worse game with - 1, 37 points with 27 shots and crucial 3. But still much better than Lively, who had disastrous game, 14 points, only 1 missed shot, 8 rebounds and 2 blocks, and - 18 +/-.

I believe future of basketball might be without box score. We will just look at +/- and see, who was the best. In this game Doncic and Irwing with 61/17/12, wining the game in last 30 seconds, had only +5. Jokic and Gordon with 27/19/11 and impressive + 22 dominated them. Luckily for Mavs, Luka and Kyrie had much better teammates, who btw. went 0/13 for 3. The most impressive player from the bench THJ with 1 point and +2.

That's one way to respond - pick only one part of the post, and exaggerate entirely to avoid responding to the rest of the post.

+- is a PART of the picture, not the whole picture, nor did I claim that. But go off, son, do your thing!

You claimed that both struggled similarly. Luka might not had his best game, but 37 points with better efficiency is still much better than 16 points with 16 shots.

About assists and +/-. Mavs role players were shooting 0/13 for 3, if they had normal shooting night, Luka's +/- and assist number would have been different. He had 15 potential assists.

+/- is unreliable stat even in bigger sample sizes. Talking about it in a single game is total nonsense.

I read how Nuggets are saying that they have lost because they had bad game. Maybe they should look at how bad shooting night Mavs had. I don't believe Mavs have won a game in last few years in which nobody outside Luka and Kyrie hit a 3.

I assume Luka's 6/27 shooting [22%] against a bottom 3 team in the league overshadows his great all around performance (16 ast, 10 reb), based on your logic in this post? Due to his abysmal shooting (even worse than Jokic vs. Mavs, but Jokic limited the damage by only taking 16 shots...not 27)...?

[TinmanZBoy]

Jokic cooking the Timberwolves and showing them what's in store during the playoffs. 22 points at half, easy dub-dub.

Meh… really mediocre game so far

[Wolfgang630]

Luka was crap.

[Oscar9992]

Worst shooting night of Luka's career! 6/27 from the field...

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