BoogieTime wrote:Assist leader in the nba since the new year? Hali? No, the guy traded for him!
Now this is something you and I can agree on.
Moderators: KF10, City of Trees, codydaze
BoogieTime wrote:Assist leader in the nba since the new year? Hali? No, the guy traded for him!
FarBeyondDriven wrote:I'm not trying to be smarmy but I'd like some explanation from the "sign Monk" crowd. If we are pretenders now, while Monk is making $10 million. How does paying him more improve us and make us actual contenders? Is it that you're banking on further improvement from him? Is it that you're banking on further improvement from Murray? You think we'll add a draft pick and/or FA? Or a combo of the above? Do you consider him good enough to be part of our Big Three with Fox and Sabonis?
To me, he's a great value now. The moment you pay him that ends. And that new salary he'll be making will not be justified because of his defense and inconsistency. I guess the money has to be spent somewhere. It's just my opinion that nobody on our current roster or who we might draft will ever be good enough to be part of our "Big Three" so don't pay them as such and instead, use that cap space and those players to trade for someone who will.
FarBeyondDriven wrote:I'm not trying to be smarmy but I'd like some explanation from the "sign Monk" crowd. If we are pretenders now, while Monk is making $10 million. How does paying him more improve us and make us actual contenders? Is it that you're banking on further improvement from him? Is it that you're banking on further improvement from Murray? You think we'll add a draft pick and/or FA? Or a combo of the above? Do you consider him good enough to be part of our Big Three with Fox and Sabonis?
To me, he's a great value now. The moment you pay him that ends. And that new salary he'll be making will not be justified because of his defense and inconsistency. I guess the money has to be spent somewhere. It's just my opinion that nobody on our current roster or who we might draft will ever be good enough to be part of our "Big Three" so don't pay them as such and instead, use that cap space and those players to trade for someone who will.
BoogieTime wrote:Keegan is really giving pretty much every defensive step he's made back with his crap/worrying offensive progression from my vantage
Just nowhere near "third star" trajectory currently IMO
madskillz8 wrote:I don't know who are these three other players, but I am not a fan of random comparisons of career trajectories because for every late bloomer, there is a MCW or Tyreke. I mean every players trajectory is different and not linear.
That's why we should evaluate his improvement individually. He started to try very hard on defense and I think it's working so far. That was what we need. And it vastly changed his career trajectory from efficient offensive 2nd option to efficient two-way player which I prefer. Still we have little indications on how will he perform in 2025-26. He can still be a two-way star, or disappoint us with lack of improvements on both ends.
Fox & Sabonis + efficient two-way forward in Keegan + defense oriented cheap starting guard in Keon + versatile experienced forward who can step up when needed in Barnes with the bench of Monk, Lyles, Huerter, Davion, Vezenkov and Len sounds like a winning formula, more than Fox & Sabonis + offense oriented 3rd star in Keegan as it still leaves Kings with a big hole in wing defense.
codydaze wrote:madskillz8 wrote:I don't know who are these three other players, but I am not a fan of random comparisons of career trajectories because for every late bloomer, there is a MCW or Tyreke. I mean every players trajectory is different and not linear.
That's why we should evaluate his improvement individually. He started to try very hard on defense and I think it's working so far. That was what we need. And it vastly changed his career trajectory from efficient offensive 2nd option to efficient two-way player which I prefer. Still we have little indications on how will he perform in 2025-26. He can still be a two-way star, or disappoint us with lack of improvements on both ends.
Fox & Sabonis + efficient two-way forward in Keegan + defense oriented cheap starting guard in Keon + versatile experienced forward who can step up when needed in Barnes with the bench of Monk, Lyles, Huerter, Davion, Vezenkov and Len sounds like a winning formula, more than Fox & Sabonis + offense oriented 3rd star in Keegan as it still leaves Kings with a big hole in wing defense.
Totally agree, I'm mostly pointing out the fact it's silly to expect a guy to become a third star by his second season exactly because of that fact. When I look at Keegan's growth I see a guy who has taken his defense to another level and while his shots aren't falling at the same rate, is getting his looks in a completely different way than he was last year. Last year he had a much higher three point rate because he was mostly catch and shoot guy or getting shots off DHO action and has been much more of a creator this year. He's finishing around the rim much stronger and has been willing to put the ball on the floor, he's really a totally different player than he was as a rookie. In my opinion, that's a lot of growth. Would it be great if he was still shooting 40% from deep, of course it would but I think he is on a very good trajectory. He's already the fourth best and most important player on a 48 win team.
For the record, the other three players are Khris Middleton, Mikal Bridges and Lauri Markkanen. Middleton was in year 3 at 23 and Lauri was in year 4.
BoogieTime wrote:codydaze wrote:madskillz8 wrote:I don't know who are these three other players, but I am not a fan of random comparisons of career trajectories because for every late bloomer, there is a MCW or Tyreke. I mean every players trajectory is different and not linear.
That's why we should evaluate his improvement individually. He started to try very hard on defense and I think it's working so far. That was what we need. And it vastly changed his career trajectory from efficient offensive 2nd option to efficient two-way player which I prefer. Still we have little indications on how will he perform in 2025-26. He can still be a two-way star, or disappoint us with lack of improvements on both ends.
Fox & Sabonis + efficient two-way forward in Keegan + defense oriented cheap starting guard in Keon + versatile experienced forward who can step up when needed in Barnes with the bench of Monk, Lyles, Huerter, Davion, Vezenkov and Len sounds like a winning formula, more than Fox & Sabonis + offense oriented 3rd star in Keegan as it still leaves Kings with a big hole in wing defense.
Totally agree, I'm mostly pointing out the fact it's silly to expect a guy to become a third star by his second season exactly because of that fact. When I look at Keegan's growth I see a guy who has taken his defense to another level and while his shots aren't falling at the same rate, is getting his looks in a completely different way than he was last year. Last year he had a much higher three point rate because he was mostly catch and shoot guy or getting shots off DHO action and has been much more of a creator this year. He's finishing around the rim much stronger and has been willing to put the ball on the floor, he's really a totally different player than he was as a rookie. In my opinion, that's a lot of growth. Would it be great if he was still shooting 40% from deep, of course it would but I think he is on a very good trajectory. He's already the fourth best and most important player on a 48 win team.
For the record, the other three players are Khris Middleton, Mikal Bridges and Lauri Markkanen. Middleton was in year 3 at 23 and Lauri was in year 4.
? Your straw man is silly. the words "progression" and "trajectory"
Those were specific examples of late bloomers whoever they were I'm guessing, just as there are I'm guessing more examples of earlier bloomers. What Keegan has been showing on offense, the consistency, aggression, playmaking etc just isnt vibing with me. And the usage could be a problematic lack of aggression rather than gameplay
OxAndFox wrote:Remember the below totals are if the teams renounce ALL of their options, including rookie contracts that haven't been taken up.
Philly - $76m
Won't renounce Maxey obviously so the cap space looks like $71m
Will they renounce Harris, Buddy and co to sign Monk with Maxey taking max space? Or will they renounce them just to trade for Barnes/Huerter? Don't think so.
Detroit - $75m
Ivey/Cade/Grimes/Sasser. Don't think a Monk destination. Trading for Barnes/Huerter? Don't think so either. Cap space is nowhere near that too with cap holds they definitely keep.
Orlando - $62m
The big Monk destination. Have the space and the opportunity to start next to Suggs. Does it work with Paolo/Franz/Suggs having the ball too? Other guards Cole/Black/Jett.
Not a destination for Barnes/Huerter IMO.
Utah - $54m
Will be looking to up Lauri with the cap space they have and most likely can't afford Monk after that. A Barnes/Huerter destination? Doesn't seem like a Danny Ainge move.
Toronto - $43m
Olynyk/Trent cap hold totals around $32m.
OKC - $41m
Cap holds take up most of this. Won't keep Hayward? Can't see them as a destination for any of the players we're talking about.
Charlotte - $40m
Have the space for Monk. Can't see him deciding to go back to the Hornets. Would they trade for a couple of vets who are good character though? Potentially.
Pacers - $36m
They're not going to renounce Pascal. End of cap space.
Spurs - $34m
Can see them cutting loose of Graham to make this space more realistic. A Monk destination? Wouldn't think so unless he is the starting PG.
Wizards - $22m
No space for Monk. Barnes/Huerter? Don't think so.
Bulls - $16m
Not renouncing DDR/Pat Williams.
Rockets - $15m
Not declining team option on Jalen Green. No space.
Teams with TPEs large enough to take Barnes/Huerter.
Atlanta Hawks (John Collins trade) - $23m
Brooklyn Nets (Dinwiddie trade) - $20m
OxAndFox wrote:
So he will stay in Sacramento then. The ONLY team that is a PO team that could or would realistically sign him is Orlando. They need to want him too.
Think you need to come up with a scenario. I will lay out the teams with cap space, which includes renouncing all team options possible to make the most cap space available.
Please come up with a way forward with trades etc that gets enough cap space to sign Monk for whatever contract you would sign him for.
EDIT: the below are numbers I have done quickly so if anyone finds innaccuracy in them please let me know.