The Official Jalen Suggs Thread

[ibraheim718]

What did apollo creed say? "Everybody is going to owe you an engraved apology" people way to quick with the bust labels.... Creators even made bust videos with Suggs in the video.... Nasty work

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Gilbert Arenas.

[Knightro]

What did apollo creed say? "Everybody is going to owe you an engraved apology" people way to quick with the bust labels.... Creators even made bust videos with Suggs in the video.... Nasty work

I mean, Suggs was quite literally one of the very worst offensive players in the entire league as a rookie.

469th in Offensive EPM
439th in TS%
451st in eFG%
480th in TOV%

And putting up these numbers while being 60th in the league in usage rate.

It was grisly!

[ibraheim718]

What did apollo creed say? "Everybody is going to owe you an engraved apology" people way to quick with the bust labels.... Creators even made bust videos with Suggs in the video.... Nasty work

I mean, Suggs was quite literally one of the very worst offensive players in the entire league as a rookie.

469th in Offensive EPM
439th in TS%
451st in eFG%
480th in TOV%

And putting up these numbers while being 60th in the league in usage rate.

It was grisly!

It was a rough year for me.. I was screaming from the mountain top that he was going to be a critical cog on a championship winning team at some point.

But it wasn't looking good that first year but I knew he was a hard worker and that playing two sports throughout high school was a detriment to skill building.

Also credit to Mosley and his staff for helping him change positions. I still think he'll play more point as he gets older and calmer.

I envision a peak year for looking like 18ppg 5ast 5reb 2stl in contention for DPOY every year.

[AaronB]

The thing is, that even when he seriously could not shoot, the form was really good and the release and ball rotation looked great.

My opinion was that he was treating the NBA like college where he felt he could fire off a jumper from anywhere and it was OK.

He needed to learn the discipline of being a shooter in the NBA and to learn where on the floor he shoots the best and work those points into the offense.

Curry and Harden and Dame can get away with things like shooting anywhere, very few other players can get away with it, especially young players.

[cedric76]

Gonna be the same with Jett, people r too quick to judge

[Optimus_Steel]

Idk why would spend money on Claxton or any big when our biggest weaknesses are guard scoring and shooting. Plus we’ve proven we can find productive bigs cheap like MoSwag and Goga.

[Skybox]

Suggs is doing amazing. Hopefully, All-Defense team. So happy to see his 3pt shooting looking so strong. He's definitely a building block and a solid piece on this team going forward.

but...a modern NBA team needs somebody scoring more than 12ppg in their starting backcourt. If a relatively low-scoring 3&D player gets a max extension then what's next?

I'm sure that makes me a "hater" now

...We all have reason to be excited about Suggs, but...I think he's more in the realm of OG Anunoby (we hope - if he can sustain it) than a max guy. Haliburton, for example, is what a max guy or even near-max guy looks like. Given Weltman's history of contracts, I think he'll maintain sanity with our cap going forward...hopefully, they're not so far apart that they can't get things done this summer and put it to rest.

[eyriq]

Idk why would spend money on Claxton or any big when our biggest weaknesses are guard scoring and shooting. Plus we’ve proven we can find productive bigs cheap like MoSwag and Goga.

The logic is simple. It comes down to efficient use of assets. We've already invested three lottery picks into the backcourt. We have pre-extension cap space to use. We have minimal investment in our center rotation. So invest pre-extension cap space into the center rotation.

We'll get the best ROI by developing AB and Jett and upgrading our starting center.

[JoshuaPotter]

Idk why would spend money on Claxton or any big when our biggest weaknesses are guard scoring and shooting. Plus we’ve proven we can find productive bigs cheap like MoSwag and Goga.

The logic is simple. It comes down to efficient use of assets. We've already invested three lottery picks into the backcourt. We have pre-extension cap space to use. We have minimal investment in our center rotation. So invest pre-extension cap space into the center rotation.

We'll get the best ROI by developing AB and Jett and upgrading our starting center.

I think we are still going to invest something in guard play on the backcourt. It's not going to be a Simmons, Monk ect though.

Unironically, I could see our organization quadruplling down on a PG via the draft and stashing them in summer league with Jett until further notice.

Taking it back to center. Suggs, is an amazing defensive player. He leads the team in defensive intensity. Isaac imho is not "available" enough to be a starter so therefore we need a defensive anchor that matches our defensive identity.

Think of it as having a royal flush on defense with a goal of having a pair of dueces on offense surrounding by high level cards. This probably isn't how I would build a team in 2023 and definitely isn't flashy but it is what we are doing.

[JoshuaPotter]

The final question regarding Suggs is how will he continue to develop from here? Do we expect refinement to his game, or both refinement or the addition of something? I don't have an answer to the question.

[VFX]

The final question regarding Suggs is how will he continue to develop from here? Do we expect refinement to his game, or both refinement or the addition of something? I don't have an answer to the question.

What was obvious in his first two seasons was that he needed to slow down. He was going a million miles an hour on the court and it resulted in forced turnovers on offense, rushed shots, and chaotic injury prone defense. He’s been able to slow the game down now and he’s fixed a lot of those problems.

The next step for him is consistency. He’s been able to be consistent since the ASB, but he still isn’t really treated as a third option on offense. He’s more of an outlet option compared to a guy like Carter that gets a ton of looks for some reason.

If I had to guess, it would be his shot creation and on-ball skills. He can hit that next level easily if he improves in those two areas. Those are the next big steps for any premiere 3 & D player.

[JoshuaPotter]

The final question regarding Suggs is how will he continue to develop from here? Do we expect refinement to his game, or both refinement or the addition of something? I don't have an answer to the question.

What was obvious in his first two seasons was that he needed to slow down. He was going a million miles an hour on the court and it resulted in forced turnovers on offense, rushed shots, and chaotic injury prone defense. He’s been able to slow the game down now and he’s fixed a lot of those problems.

The next step for him is consistency. He’s been able to be consistent since the ASB, but he still isn’t really treated as a third option on offense. He’s more of an outlet option compared to a guy like Carter that gets a ton of looks for some reason.

If I had to guess, it would be his shot creation and on-ball skills. He can hit that next level easily if he improves in those two areas. Those are the next big steps for any premiere 3 & D player.

That is fair. It is also part of the reason I am adamantly saying we need additional bruisers down low. This opens up energy he wouldn't otherwise have to play offense.

It's part of the reason why I say Paolo has improved a lot on defense even though advanced metrics say "he is average". It's also why I don't want to triple down on some of these bigger offensive punches players which will just increase Franz / Suggs and yes even Carters unique defensive load.

I like what you say about needing a point guard. Surely if I could wave my hand I would do it. I am hoping this is what Black develops into.

[VFX]

The final question regarding Suggs is how will he continue to develop from here? Do we expect refinement to his game, or both refinement or the addition of something? I don't have an answer to the question.

What was obvious in his first two seasons was that he needed to slow down. He was going a million miles an hour on the court and it resulted in forced turnovers on offense, rushed shots, and chaotic injury prone defense. He’s been able to slow the game down now and he’s fixed a lot of those problems.

The next step for him is consistency. He’s been able to be consistent since the ASB, but he still isn’t really treated as a third option on offense. He’s more of an outlet option compared to a guy like Carter that gets a ton of looks for some reason.

If I had to guess, it would be his shot creation and on-ball skills. He can hit that next level easily if he improves in those two areas. Those are the next big steps for any premiere 3 & D player.

That is fair. It is also part of the reason I am adamantly saying we need additional bruisers down low. This opens up energy he wouldn't otherwise have to play offense.

It's part of the reason why I say Paolo has improved a lot on defense even though advanced metrics say "he is average". It's also why I don't want to triple down on some of these bigger offensive punches players which will just increase Franz / Suggs and yes even Carters unique defensive load.

I like what you say about needing a point guard. Surely if I could wave my hand I would do it. I am hoping this is what Black develops into.

Black is kind of a mystery box with how he develops IMO. If he can be a floor general and run the show we are in good hands. We just haven’t seen it yet. He needs to develop into more than an elite, versatile, defensive option to be the starting point guard. It’s a tall ask but was the main reason he was worth a lotto pick.

The problem with that is mainly the point that he isn’t a guy that can create his own shot off the dribble, which is one of the things we need Suggs to do. There’s an argument to be made that we don’t necessarily need Black to do that in this offense, but he kinda needs to be able to do it for Orlando’s offense to be significantly better than bottom 5-10.

Suggs is much further along now on offense and if he improves he can take some of that pressure off Black. I still think Orlando’s FO needs to move some pieces around and get a vet point guard in the interim if they are dead set on a deep playoff run for the next two seasons.

[Skybox]

Idk why would spend money on Claxton or any big when our biggest weaknesses are guard scoring and shooting. Plus we’ve proven we can find productive bigs cheap like MoSwag and Goga.

The logic is simple. It comes down to efficient use of assets. We've already invested three lottery picks into the backcourt. We have pre-extension cap space to use. We have minimal investment in our center rotation. So invest pre-extension cap space into the center rotation.

We'll get the best ROI by developing AB and Jett and upgrading our starting center.

the logic is too simple-also wrong

...we've only got one pick invested in PF - but I'd say we're set with PB

BRK gave up a lot to get Simmons, but he's a cadaver...still a position of need.

What you've invested is beyond irrelevant. Focus on what you need.

[p0peye]

Idk why would spend money on Claxton or any big when our biggest weaknesses are guard scoring and shooting. Plus we’ve proven we can find productive bigs cheap like MoSwag and Goga.

The logic is simple. It comes down to efficient use of assets. We've already invested three lottery picks into the backcourt. We have pre-extension cap space to use. We have minimal investment in our center rotation. So invest pre-extension cap space into the center rotation.

We'll get the best ROI by developing AB and Jett and upgrading our starting center.

the logic is too simple-also wrong

...we've only got one pick invested in PF - but I'd say we're set with PB

BRK gave up a lot to get Simmons, but he's a cadaver...still a position of need.

What you've invested is beyond irrelevant. Focus on what you need.

We just can't agree on which position that is. Like with Markelle and Black.

[Skybox]

The logic is simple. It comes down to efficient use of assets. We've already invested three lottery picks into the backcourt. We have pre-extension cap space to use. We have minimal investment in our center rotation. So invest pre-extension cap space into the center rotation.

We'll get the best ROI by developing AB and Jett and upgrading our starting center.

the logic is too simple-also wrong

...we've only got one pick invested in PF - but I'd say we're set with PB

BRK gave up a lot to get Simmons, but he's a cadaver...still a position of need.

What you've invested is beyond irrelevant. Focus on what you need.

We just can't agree on which position that is. Like with Markelle and Black.

I'm sorry - I don't follow your point...I have no lack of clarity on Markelle's role next year

We are great at the forward spots. I just don't think any decisions should be based on what we've already invested. But we've been down this road before. I was just illustrating that BRK isn't going to let Simmons being on their roster affect their decisions. He was expensive to obtain but he's not contributing, so he's a non-factor.

[AaronB]

Idk why would spend money on Claxton or any big when our biggest weaknesses are guard scoring and shooting. Plus we’ve proven we can find productive bigs cheap like MoSwag and Goga.

The logic is simple. It comes down to efficient use of assets. We've already invested three lottery picks into the backcourt. We have pre-extension cap space to use. We have minimal investment in our center rotation. So invest pre-extension cap space into the center rotation.

We'll get the best ROI by developing AB and Jett and upgrading our starting center.

the logic is too simple-also wrong

...we've only got one pick invested in PF - but I'd say we're set with PB

BRK gave up a lot to get Simmons, but he's a cadaver...still a position of need.

What you've invested is beyond irrelevant. Focus on what you need.

Sometimes logic is wrong (like your insistance on Simons being a worthwhile target for the Magic) and sometimes it is just different.

In this case, the logic is just different and not wrong. It is possible it could turn out wrong, but it is impossible to be even remotely predictive at this point about where Black ends up as a player.

I have proposed attempting to sign D Russell (a much better fit for the Magic than Simons, even though not a defensive wiz) in the off-season, but I still recognize this will negatively impact the development of Black.

Not sure that I like that. However, the more I see Black lately, the less I like his game and his overall makeup. His jersey thing with Dick was funny, but juvenile. I'm not sure I like handing over the reins of PG to someone that immature.

If this was college or High School, OK, but this is the pros and those are grown a$$ men on the other side fighting to get a paycheck.

Black just does not seem ready to me, and two months ago, I thought he would be much more of a contributor for next year.

Part of it might be the rookie wall, but there is a reason Coach has him even below Caleb. I think Caleb takes a very mature approach to the game, even if it is unidimensional.

[p0peye]

the logic is too simple-also wrong

...we've only got one pick invested in PF - but I'd say we're set with PB

BRK gave up a lot to get Simmons, but he's a cadaver...still a position of need.

What you've invested is beyond irrelevant. Focus on what you need.

We just can't agree on which position that is. Like with Markelle and Black.

I'm sorry - I don't follow your point...I have no lack of clarity on Markelle's role next year

We are great at the forward spots. I just don't think any decisions should be based on what we've already invested. But we've been down this road before. I was just illustrating that BRK isn't going to let Simmons being on their roster affect their decisions. He was expensive to obtain but he's not contributing, so he's a non-factor.

All 3 play ambiguous position on the floor. They are labeled as point guards, but lack point or guard (or both) skills - so they end up playing C, PF or SF on offense.

[AaronB]

One more thing about Black's development curve.

One thing that was painfully obvious when Black was standing next to Dick in the immature photo of the year contest, is that Black does not spend nearly enough time in the weight room.

Dick has much better definition and muscle development.

At the NBA level, physical strength matters and Black does not look like he has taken it seriously.

[Skybox]

The logic is simple. It comes down to efficient use of assets. We've already invested three lottery picks into the backcourt. We have pre-extension cap space to use. We have minimal investment in our center rotation. So invest pre-extension cap space into the center rotation.

We'll get the best ROI by developing AB and Jett and upgrading our starting center.

the logic is too simple-also wrong

...we've only got one pick invested in PF - but I'd say we're set with PB

BRK gave up a lot to get Simmons, but he's a cadaver...still a position of need.

What you've invested is beyond irrelevant. Focus on what you need.

Sometimes logic is wrong (like your insistance on Simons being a worthwhile target for the Magic) and sometimes it is just different.

In this case, the logic is just different and not wrong. It is possible it could turn out wrong, but it is impossible to be even remotely predictive at this point about where Black ends up as a player.

I have proposed attempting to sign D Russell (a much better fit for the Magic than Simons, even though not a defensive wiz) in the off-season, but I still recognize this will negatively impact the development of Black.

Not sure that I like that. However, the more I see Black lately, the less I like his game and his overall makeup. His jersey thing with Dick was funny, but juvenile. I'm not sure I like handing over the reins of PG to someone that immature.

If this was college or High School, OK, but this is the pros and those are grown a$$ men on the other side fighting to get a paycheck.

Black just does not seem ready to me, and two months ago, I thought he would be much more of a contributor for next year.

Part of it might be the rookie wall, but there is a reason Coach has him even below Caleb. I think Caleb takes a very mature approach to the game, even if it is unidimensional.

I'm sure it's fun to come in and incorrectly use the word logic towards my interest in Simons, but you're still missing the WHOLE point of my post...the fact that we spent picks on guards should not preclude us from focusing on upgrading our weak spot ...guards. That's kind of in line with the way a few can't understand the concept of "sunk cost"...it doesn't mean anything specifically about Black It doesn't even imply that it wasn't a perfect pick for us. I think Black is going to be a good NBA player, maybe even a PG...hopefully, with ORL. But he clearly doesn't solve our needs today or for the near future...otherwise he'd be playing more for a team that clearly is lacking in the backcourt (outside of Suggs).

It just means that you start over, every f@#kin' day...assess your needs, your tools and assets at hand, and try to make a better team. You don't linger over how it looks, what you've spent...that's done. Maybe it's human nature by not wanting to get fired because your earlier investments aren't all home runs - but that's not LOGICal.