2024 NBA DRAFT THREAD 2

[dohboy_24]

Traditionally, I think you can get good value in the range of the Pacers pick if you select a C or PF and believe that's the direction we should ultimately go with the pick we're getting from Indiana.

PFs or Cs picked between #13 and #20 since 2010:

2010: Ed Davis, Patrick Patterson, Larry Sanders
2011: Marcus Morris, Markieff Morris, Nikola Vucevic, Donatas Motiejunas, Kenneth Faried (#22), Nikola Mirotic (#23)
2012: John Henson, Andrew Nicolson
2013: Steven Adams, Kelly Olynyk, Lucas Nogueira, Mason Plumlee (#22), Rudy Gobert (#27)
2014: Adrien Payne, Jusuf Nurkic, Clint Capela (#25)
2015: None. Myles Turner (#11), Trey Lyles (#12), Bobby Portis (#22)
2016: Domatas Sabonis (#11), Georgios Pagagiannis, Guerschon Yabusele, Henry Ellenson, Pascal Siakim (#27)
2017: Bam Adebayo, Justin Patton, DJ Wilson, TJ Leaf, John Collins, Jarett Allen (#22)
2018: Michael Porter Jr, Mo Wagner (#25), Robert Williams (#27)
2019: PJ Washington (#12), Sekou Doumbouya, Chuma Okeke, Goga Bitadze, Luka Samanic, Brandon Clarke (#21), Grant Williams (#22), Mo Kabengele (#27)
2020: Isiah Stewart, Aleksej Pokusevski, Saddiq Bey, Precouis Achiuwa, Zeke Nnaji (#22), Udoka Azubuike (#27)
2021: Alperen Sengun, Kai Jones, Jalen Johnson, Isiah Jackson (#22), Usman Garuba (#23), DayRon Sharp (#29)
2022: Jalen Duren, Mark Williams, Tari Eason, Walker Kessler (#22)
2023: Dereck Lively (#12), Noah Clowney (#21), Kris Murray (#23)

Of the 63 first round picks from outside the lottery who play the PF or C position, 40 of them (63.5%) either are or were in the starting lineup, the first big off the bench, or a key member of a 9-man rotation.

Unless a guard or forward like Ja'Kobe Walter, Tidjane Salaun, Stephon Castle, Ron Holland, Reed Sheppard, or Rob Dillingham slips to the Pacers pick, I think one of Yves Missi, Kyle Filipowski, Donovan Clingan, Kel'el Ware, Ulrich Chomche, or Tyler Smith could join the former picks I've bolded above as one of the PF/Cs picked outside the lottery but still in the first round who fit the criteria (starter, 6th man, or key member of the 9-man rotation) I've noted.

[RoteSchroder]

It's pretty obvious by this point what Reed is. The attempted block last night where he was too short to block the shot and hit the dude's arm was the most glaring giveaway that he is just going to be athletically limited at next level. He is a connective piece who will need to play off others as his floor navigation ability is not good and he gets swallowed up by size which will prevent him from being a great facilitator. Not to mention his handle isn't anything to write home about.

Dillingham's defense appears to be just too trash for him to be more than a 6th man in NBA.

Big Z looks borderline undraftable.

That's where I stand.

Yeah, someone needs to fill me in on why people keep mentioning Ivisic. Are they on crack? I get he's a unicorn, but he's also had the same struggles for 3 years in a row. Just pick him up as an undrafted rookie or trade Boucher for him and stick him in the G-league until he learns how to play b-ball, no need to waste a pick.

Reed/Dillingham might become solid players, but I would avoid drafting them (unless they drop to the Indiana pick) over prospects like Castle/Holland/Risacher. We should go for players with a little more upside with at least two of the picks and then aim for a high floor player with the third pick.

[Morse Code]

I'm a really big fan of this kid's game. His ability to defend, make plays and shoot with deep range off the bounce at 6'8" is very appealing. Needs to polish up things like ball security and finishing at the rim but overall a nice prospect.

Watch on YouTube

This kid looks incredible, wtf. Lol. Am I living under a rock?

Sent from my LG-H873 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[RoteSchroder]

I'm a really big fan of this kid's game. His ability to defend, make plays and shoot with deep range off the bounce at 6'8" is very appealing. Needs to polish up things like ball security and finishing at the rim but overall a nice prospect.

Watch on YouTube

This kid looks incredible, wtf. Lol. Am I living under a rock?

Sent from my LG-H873 using RealGM Forums mobile app

Everyone looks good in highlights. His main strength is his catch and shooting and length/size. I think he was near 50% for catch and shoot, around 18% for jumpers off the dribble.

Look closer at his drives. He can barely get past his man and doesn't create any separation without a screen. There were 2-3 push offs in that highlight reel. If you look at his non-highlights, he often has trouble getting past his defender.

His passing level off the P/R is very basic and he makes like a 2-3 dumb unforced TO's or dumb plays per game, so he's not someone I'd want as a primary or secondary on-ball handler. Will probably be better off as a role player who occasionally makes plays and attacks close outs, like a GTJr role.

In terms of defense, his slow foot speed is probably gonna limit him from becoming a high level defender, although he has good size and length, which can make up for some of his weaknesses.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

It's pretty obvious by this point what Reed is. The attempted block last night where he was too short to block the shot and hit the dude's arm was the most glaring giveaway that he is just going to be athletically limited at next level. He is a connective piece who will need to play off others as his floor navigation ability is not good and he gets swallowed up by size which will prevent him from being a great facilitator. Not to mention his handle isn't anything to write home about.

Dillingham's defense appears to be just too trash for him to be more than a 6th man in NBA.

Big Z looks borderline undraftable.

That's where I stand.

Yeah, someone needs to fill me in on why people keep mentioning Ivisic. Are they on crack? I get he's a unicorn, but he's also had the same struggles for 3 years in a row. Just pick him up as an undrafted rookie or trade Boucher for him and stick him in the G-league until he learns how to play b-ball, no need to waste a pick.

Reed/Dillingham might become solid players, but I would avoid drafting them (unless they drop to the Indiana pick) over prospects like Castle/Holland/Risacher. We should go for players with a little more upside with at least two of the picks and then aim for a high floor player with the third pick.

Because people want to believe that a 7'2 center who can shoot 3's and make some flashy plays is going to work out like a video game. Unfortunately he's just not smart enough of a player for me. If he were thinking the game at anywhere near a respectable level I'd be totally on board.

And yeah neither of those two are anywhere near the prospect that a guy like Holland is.

[Psubs]

Pair Ivisic with Topic and Barnes!

I'm pivoting to Topic with IQ playing more off ball but guarding the opponent's smallest player.

[Landomar]

Ranking players in the top ten this year, more so than other years, looks like a total dart throw. Everybody projected to get picked high has serious question marks. The best player, in hindsight, is almost certainly going to be whichever player makes some surprising and unpredictable improvements after they get drafted.

The more I look into it, the more I understand the narrative about this being a "weak draft." I do think, however, that this mostly applies to the top of the draft. In the pick 15 - 40 range, the talent level seems somewhat more normal. I'm confident that with the Pacers pick and the Pistons pick, there's going to be value there.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Virginia got smoked yesterday, any talk of Ryan Dunn near the lottery should end now immediately.

*talks about Ryan Dunn deserving to go near the lottery*

[ItsDanger]

I’ve been mainly saying Big Z for the Pacers pick (assuming Saluan doesn’t fall) but man when you watch Kel’El Ware’s highlights it’s hard not to feel like what if you get him to build up more consistency (like we’re trying with Scottie)…

But if Kel’El can just be locked in every game he probably has the most star potential of anyone in that range. Even if he doesn’t he should have a Myles Turner like fit which I think everyone wanted (just many didn’t want to give up 2 picks at the time). Kinda ironic to get a big man like Turner from Indiana thanks to Indiana lol. I think Ware has actually shown more offensively and been more of a lob threat than Turner was at the same age buuuut still would obv be great if he even just reached MT’s level. I’d roll the dice on Kel’El at the IND pick (and still take another roll on Yang with the DET one lol like a potentially souped up Serge/Marc 2.0)

Saw him twice this season, both times showed concerning lack of hustle defensively. That could change as he matures, but it tends not to in athletes. You're taking a risk on him that his effort level matches NBA competition. In college, you can get away with coasting often, but not at pro level pace.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I like how the majority of Dunn's blocks aren't flashy swats that occur long after ball is released and go out of bounds, this guy is great at keeping the ball in play after blocking his opponents which effectively makes his blocks forced turnovers. Actually huge for his defensive value.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

I’ve been mainly saying Big Z for the Pacers pick (assuming Saluan doesn’t fall) but man when you watch Kel’El Ware’s highlights it’s hard not to feel like what if you get him to build up more consistency (like we’re trying with Scottie)…

But if Kel’El can just be locked in every game he probably has the most star potential of anyone in that range. Even if he doesn’t he should have a Myles Turner like fit which I think everyone wanted (just many didn’t want to give up 2 picks at the time). Kinda ironic to get a big man like Turner from Indiana thanks to Indiana lol. I think Ware has actually shown more offensively and been more of a lob threat than Turner was at the same age buuuut still would obv be great if he even just reached MT’s level. I’d roll the dice on Kel’El at the IND pick (and still take another roll on Yang with the DET one lol like a potentially souped up Serge/Marc 2.0)

Saw him twice this season, both times showed concerning lack of hustle defensively. That could change as he matures, but it tends not to in athletes. You're taking a risk on him that his effort level matches NBA competition. In college, you can get away with coasting often, but not at pro level pace.

From Cam Whitmore to Jalen Johnson, if the biggest drawback is attitude and not talent then I think the risk is worth taking. Jalen fell because people think he gave up on his college team or some crap and now he's a sleeper talent ATL lucked into. Hell even Ben Simmons was labelled a lazy defender and he got into the NBA and changed all of that.

I think people are putting to much into the psyche of these guys and using that to override what their eyes are seeing. I'm really not seeing many C's I like more than Ware and even with Poeltl, we lack a real shot blocking rim protector who can be a lob threat. His flashes of 3pt ability are a cherry on top as well

[UnbelievablyRAW]

I like how the majority of Dunn's blocks aren't flashy swats that occur long after ball is released and go out of bounds, this guy is great at keeping the ball in play after blocking his opponents which effectively makes his blocks forced turnovers. Actually huge for his defensive value.

Although I've been locked into Carter and Ware as the guys I think would improve the Raptors the most outside of the top 10 but if Dunn falls to the early second round I'm 100% taking him

[ArthurVandelay]

The part that none of us have access to, sadly, is finding out how hard they work on their game and if they love the grind.

I think talent and athleticism is the easiest part to identify. What is critical is if they truly love to play and want to put the work in.

Once you find that, then you have to figure who keeps the same mentality once they get a few million$.

Who is just happy to make the league and who wants to thrive in the league? Talent is extremely important but it only takes one so far.

[Mark_83]

I’ve been mainly saying Big Z for the Pacers pick (assuming Saluan doesn’t fall) but man when you watch Kel’El Ware’s highlights it’s hard not to feel like what if you get him to build up more consistency (like we’re trying with Scottie)…

But if Kel’El can just be locked in every game he probably has the most star potential of anyone in that range. Even if he doesn’t he should have a Myles Turner like fit which I think everyone wanted (just many didn’t want to give up 2 picks at the time). Kinda ironic to get a big man like Turner from Indiana thanks to Indiana lol. I think Ware has actually shown more offensively and been more of a lob threat than Turner was at the same age buuuut still would obv be great if he even just reached MT’s level. I’d roll the dice on Kel’El at the IND pick (and still take another roll on Yang with the DET one lol like a potentially souped up Serge/Marc 2.0)

Saw him twice this season, both times showed concerning lack of hustle defensively. That could change as he matures, but it tends not to in athletes. You're taking a risk on him that his effort level matches NBA competition. In college, you can get away with coasting often, but not at pro level pace.

From Cam Whitmore to Jalen Johnson, if the biggest drawback is attitude and not talent then I think the risk is worth taking. Jalen fell because people think he gave up on his college team or some crap and now he's a sleeper talent ATL lucked into. Hell even Ben Simmons was labelled a lazy defender and he got into the NBA and changed all of that.

I think people are putting to much into the psyche of these guys and using that to override what their eyes are seeing. I'm really not seeing many C's I like more than Ware and even with Poeltl, we lack a real shot blocking rim protector who can be a lob threat. His flashes of 3pt ability are a cherry on top as well

Yup. That's where I'm at with a guy like Ware. As much as I try I'm not in a position to psychoanalyze a guy's makeup and toughness beyond rumors and innuendo from draft gurus and coaches who have their own incentive structures. I was very high on Jalen Johnson's talent in his draft year. My only hesitation was his purported attitude problems. Then I remind myself of how different I was at that age compared to now and even a few years later. People learn and grow up mentally just as much as they do physically. That's why I still have Ware high on my wishlist despite my concerns about his toughness and motor.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I like how the majority of Dunn's blocks aren't flashy swats that occur long after ball is released and go out of bounds, this guy is great at keeping the ball in play after blocking his opponents which effectively makes his blocks forced turnovers. Actually huge for his defensive value.

Although I've been locked into Carter and Ware as the guys I think would improve the Raptors the most outside of the top 10 but if Dunn falls to the early second round I'm 100% taking him

When evaluating Dunn this is what comes to mind...

-NBA body
-NBA wingspan
-Above the rim athlete
-Good feel
-Limits errors
-Plays with fire
-Versatile
-Understands his role
-Correctable shot
-Solid handle and fundamentals
-Fearless while in motion and at high speeds
-Not reckless as a driver
-Good finishing touch
-Great rebounder

I feel like people who are low on him view him as simply "horrible shooter" and refuse to see the bigger picture. Teams believe they can improve shooting, he checks too many boxes. Look at the Thompson twins last year, they weren't overlooked by NBA organizations due to their horrendous shooting mechanics.

Dunn is a really good basketball player.

[Mark_83]

The part that none of us have access to, sadly, is finding out how hard they work on their game and if they love the grind.

I think talent and athleticism is the easiest part to identify. What is critical is if they truly love to play and want to put the work in.

Once you find that, then you have to figure who keeps the same mentality once they get a few million$.

Who is just happy to make the league and who wants to thrive in the league? Talent is extremely important but it only takes one so far.

Skal Labissiere and Deyonta Davis were both much more talented than Pascal Siakam. Pascal had some physical tools, but he made himself into a star out of sheer will.

[Fairview4Life]

The part that none of us have access to, sadly, is finding out how hard they work on their game and if they love the grind.

I think talent and athleticism is the easiest part to identify. What is critical is if they truly love to play and want to put the work in.

Once you find that, then you have to figure who keeps the same mentality once they get a few million$.

Who is just happy to make the league and who wants to thrive in the league? Talent is extremely important but it only takes one so far.

Skal Labissiere and Deyonta Davis were both much more talented than Pascal Siakam. Pascal had some physical tools, but he made himself into a star out of sheer will.

No they weren't. Pascal put up 20/11 in his 2nd year at New Mexico State. Both Davis and Skal were nowhere near that good in their first years in college. Skal especially.

[Yallbecrazy]

creighton was seriously impressive today, once they got into a rhythm they looked insanely dominant

they have a hard path to champ game but they have some very serious players with tons of experience and this is their last dance. great coach, disciplined team that outsmarts you and outplays you, four guys in starting lineup who are excellent 3 point shooters... if they end up meeting purdue they will be way more battle tested by having played tennessee and if they meet a houston they will have been way more battle tested by beating tenn and purdue.

creighton are legit heavyweights this year and being overlooked i feel due to their more difficult path to get to champ game but maybe just maybe they're good enough to get there despite the difficulty because they are badasses who play an awesome brand of basketball

There's only 3 possible teams coming out of this bracket and it is the top 3 seeds. I think Creighton are a ways behind Tenn and Purdue.

Think it's like 35% chance for Tenn and Purdue and 20% Creighton with 10% other.

[Mark_83]

The part that none of us have access to, sadly, is finding out how hard they work on their game and if they love the grind.

I think talent and athleticism is the easiest part to identify. What is critical is if they truly love to play and want to put the work in.

Once you find that, then you have to figure who keeps the same mentality once they get a few million$.

Who is just happy to make the league and who wants to thrive in the league? Talent is extremely important but it only takes one so far.

Skal Labissiere and Deyonta Davis were both much more talented than Pascal Siakam. Pascal had some physical tools, but he made himself into a star out of sheer will.

No they weren't. Pascal put up 20/11 in his 2nd year at New Mexico State. Both Davis and Skal were nowhere near that good in their first years in college. Skal especially.

lol. This is revisionist history of epic proportions. Both Labissierre and Davis were 5-star recruits from high school who were regarded (based on raw talent alone) as among the very best in their class. We're talking about physical tools and skills at the same stage not production and both were more highly regarded than Pascal. Sure, Pascal put up better total stats, but he was also older, playing more minutes, and in one of the weakest mid major conferences (WAC) in college basketball. Deyonta Davis' per 40 stats were almost identical to Siakam's in their freshman seasons except he put them up in a power conference (the 2nd or 3rd best conference in the NCAA by most rankings). To downplay just how much work Pascal had to put in to become the player he is now is absurd.

[Fairview4Life]

Skal Labissiere and Deyonta Davis were both much more talented than Pascal Siakam. Pascal had some physical tools, but he made himself into a star out of sheer will.

No they weren't. Pascal put up 20/11 in his 2nd year at New Mexico State. Both Davis and Skal were nowhere near that good in their first years in college. Skal especially.

lol. This is revisionist history of epic proportions. Both Labissierre and Davis were 5-star recruits from high school who were regarded (based on raw talent alone) as among the very best in their class. We're talking about physical tools and skills at the same stage not production and both were more highly regarded than Pascal. Sure, Pascal put up better total stats, but he was also older, playing more minutes, and in one of the weakest mid major conferences (WAC) in college basketball. Deyonta Davis' per 40 stats were almost identical to Siakam's in their freshman seasons except he put them up in a Powe conference. To downplay just how much work Pascal had to put in to become the player he is now is absurd.

You didn't say more highly regarded. You said they were both much more talented. They were highly touted prospects (Skal for his athleticism and measurements) but they were certainly not more highly skilled when they were drafted.

I am not downplaying what Pascal has accomplished as a pro. But, as evidenced by the fact Davis and Skal were both terrible pros, Pascal didn't actually start his career being a worse basketball player than those two guys. That's my point. Pascal wasn't on TV every weekend, but he was better at basketball than them. That isn't revisionist. Hell, it's one of the reasons Pascal was picked ahead of both of them. It seems like they weren't actually that highly regarded at all by draft time.