Zach Edey, 7-4

[___Rand___]

With a bad draft year like this someone's gonna draft him. Question is which round?

I wouldn't take him in the 3rd round.

lol. With a weak draft like this, someone with too many picks will draft him.

[Big J]

With a bad draft year like this someone's gonna draft him. Question is which round?

I wouldn't take him in the 3rd round.

lol. With a weak draft like this, someone with too many picks will draft him.

Hopefully not as a 1st rounder at least. That's a guaranteed contract for 3 years. It ain't worth it bro.

[JRoy]

I’m not a big NCAA guy but I like what I have seen of Edey.

Would like to see him in more screen action.

[OriAr]

Edey's playstyle being unwatchable has no bearing on whether or not he's a skilled player. Prime Harden was extremely skilled and put together many of the most unwatchable games in NBA history.

Yao could not move nearly as well as even post prime Porzingis on the Celtics this year.

True or false - there is 0 chance you can play him more than spot minutes

You probably can't, but I think there's some chance depending on one of three things happening

1. He's just so ridiculously dominant on offense that he makes up for his terrible defense
2. He's just mobile enough to only be a bad defender instead of the worst defender in the NBA
3. Defensive three seconds is removed

I have Edey as a late first, early second round guy to be clear.

I believe #2 is possible.
Sure, he's slow, but is he really slower than Brook Lopez? Or JV? Or Nukric? I don't think he'd be necessarily the slowest player in the league once he's drafted... And obviously he's very dominant offensively (And just as importantly, on the glass and defensively inside).
He's far better than Garza or Hansbrough were in college.

[CptCrunch]

The question isn't how slow Edey is on defense. The obvious answer is between unplayable and Boban.

The real question is - are there any teams is willing to play around a 7'4" rookie on offense so that he can shoot his baby shook every possession. Does he have the touch to shoot at 60+% (discounted for turnovers, ie breakeven would be 56% naturally) for 1.12+ pps which would be league average efficiency these days.

[disoblige]

Joker was this archetype before he was drafted.

[clyde21]

Joker was this archetype before he was drafted.

no he wasnt

[disoblige]

Joker was this archetype before he was drafted.

no he wasnt

Long, fat, slow and can't jump?

[clyde21]

Joker was this archetype before he was drafted.

no he wasnt

Long, fat, slow and can't jump?

did you actually watch them play or just going by their tinder profiles? Jokic can pass+shoot from day one, that's not Edey. even if you like Edey as a prospect this is a terrible comp.

[disoblige]

no he wasnt

Long, fat, slow and can't jump?

did you actually watch them play or just going by their tinder profiles? Jokic can pass+shoot from day one, that's not Edey. even if you like Edey as a prospect this is a terrible comp.

I am obviously taking about their defensive liability arc type as you can see from my examples. Centers with no lateral speed, vert or speed

[ItsDanger]

Read on Twitter

[FrodoBaggins]

He moved better in the combine tests than many NBA centers despite outweighing all of them, from 20 pounds to as much as like 80. Now that doesn't guarantee mobility in-game but it at least gives him a great shot to be. He was 306.4 pounds when he did those tests. He's like 290 now I think.

Zach Edey 2023 NBA Combine:

Lane agility test: 11.37 seconds
3/4 court sprint test: 3.45 seconds

Steven Adams 2014 NBA Combine:

Lane agility test: 11.85 seconds
3/4 court sprint test: 3.40 seconds

Rudy Gobert 2014 NBA Combine:

Lane agility test: 12.85 seconds
3/4 court sprint test: 3.57 seconds

Brook Lopez 2009 NBA Combine:

Lane agility test: 12.77 seconds
3/4 court sprint test: 3.57 seconds

DeMarcus Cousins 2011 NBA Combine:

Lane agility test: 11.40 seconds
3/4 court sprint test: 3.55 seconds

Hassan Whiteside 2011 NBA Combine:

Lane agility test: 11.83 seconds
3/4 court sprint test: 3.54 seconds

Nikola Vucevic 2012 NBA Combine:

Lane agility test: 12.02 seconds
3/4 court sprint test: 3.27 seconds

Bobby Portis 2016 NBA Combine:

Lane agility test: 11.78 seconds
3/4 court sprint test: 3.56 seconds

Bam Adebayo 2018 NBA Combine:

Lane agility test: 11.94 seconds
3/4 court sprint test: 3.24 seconds

Nicolas Claxton 2020 NBA Combine:

Lane agility test: 11.26 seconds
3/4 court sprint test: 3.36 seconds

Xavier Tillman Sr 2021 NBA Combine:

Lane agility test: 11.80 seconds
3/4 court sprint test: 3.49 seconds

To compare Edey to a true plodding Giant, check out Tacko Fall's numbers:

Tacko Fall 2020 NBA Combine:

Lane agility test: 13.01 seconds
3/4 court sprint test: 3.78 seconds

When it comes to mobility, Zach is much more like Adams, Lopez, and Gobert. And that was at 306 pounds a year ago. He dropped like 15 pounds and has been noticeably more mobile this season.

[FrodoBaggins]

And I'll say that two of Zach's most underrated physical traits are his durability and endurance. How many players that are 7'3.25" barefoot (only .25" shorter than Wemby and legitimately 7'4.5" to 7'5" in shoes) play that many minutes and never miss games like he has?

[FrodoBaggins]

The question isn't how slow Edey is on defense. The obvious answer is between unplayable and Boban.

The real question is - are there any teams is willing to play around a 7'4" rookie on offense so that he can shoot his baby shook every possession. Does he have the touch to shoot at 60+% (discounted for turnovers, ie breakeven would be 56% naturally) for 1.12+ pps which would be league average efficiency these days.

This tells me you haven't actually watched Perdue and Edey much. He's not a static post-isolation guy like Shaq. He plays more like how Dwight Howard did in Orlando: a hybrid pick-and-roll/post-up threat that blends his screen-and-roll game in with deep off-ball post position.

Here are a couple of examples and an explanation from coach SVG:

Van Gundy never much liked the straight post-up anyway. If Howard was going to get the ball on the block, Van Gundy preferred it to come either in semi-transition or after Howard set a high screen and rumbled down to the block. He could get deep position that way, so that he could catch and go right into a monster move. “We wanted to get it to him as close to the basket as possible,” Van Gundy says, “to a place where no dribble was necessary.” Howard mostly catches the ball two steps outside the paint now. Basically, every defender is Jason Collins from the 2011 playoffs.

Watch on YouTube

Yeah, Zach isolates in the post, but that's not what he will primarily do at the pro level. His bread and butter on offense will be his rim-running, deep sealing (which is technically off-ball post-up), and crashing the offensive glass. He'll isolate in the post situationally, on mismatches, broken plays, and potentially in the clutch.

This is basically how Rudy Gobert played on offense in Utah. Say what you want about his offensive game, but Utah had a +5 rORtg over his last two seasons. Elite offenses largely off the back of an unstoppable half-court attack. Three-point shooting surrounding an elite rim-running threat. Yes, D-Mitch was a part of that, but he missed 18 games in '21 and the offense was still great.

2021: 117.6 ORtg (+5.3 rORtg) [3rd/30]; Pace: 98.5 (-0.7 rPace) [18th/30]
2022: 116.7 ORtg (+4.7 rORtg) [1st/30]; Pace: 97.1 (-1.1 rPace) [22nd/30]

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=RisingCoaches

This is more or less the Dwight Howard in Orlando offensive approach. So let's not try to pretend the offensive strategy is outdated.

According to Synergy Sports Tracking, Zach scored at a ridiculous 1.54 PPP as a roll man with an 8% frequency. Good for the 94th percentile. Here are some GIF examples:





From 2016-17 to 2021-22, Rudy averaged 14.8 ppg, 13.1 rpg, 1.4 apg, 0.7 spg, 2.3 bpg on 67.4% FG, 65.1% FT, and 68.9% TS. In 32.6 minutes per game. Every single one of those seasons his team was better on offense with him on the court:

2016-17: on-court - 111.8 ORtg; off-court - 106.6 ORtg; +5.2 on/off ORtg
2017-18: on-court - 109.3 ORtg; off-court - 108.4 ORtg; +0.9 on/off ORtg
2018-19: on-court - 112.1 ORtg; off-court - 110.4 ORtg; +1.7 on/off ORtg
2019-20: on-court - 114.2 ORtg; off-court - 109.6 ORtg; +4.6 on/off ORtg
2020-21: on-court - 120.3 ORtg; off-court - 113.9 ORtg; +6.4 on/off ORtg
2021-22: on-court - 117.4 ORtg; off-court - 117.3 ORtg; +0.1 on/off ORtg

If Zach did prove to be good enough on defense and landed in a similarly ideal situation, he could absolutely put up those kinds of offensive numbers if not better. He's a much more capable offensive player than Rudy; better touch, hands, and post-up skills, is bigger and stronger, draws more fouls, and is a better free-throw shooter.

If he doesn't succeed in the NBA it won't be because of his offense.

[FrodoBaggins]

Zach also had some nice defensive possessions last night.





The dream, best-case/top-end defensive projection would be something akin to Brook Lopez. He has the tools but whether it comes together depends on several factors, including how well his athleticism/mobility translates, his defensive instincts, positioning, and technique; not to mention, whether or not he lands in the right circumstance.

That last part is vital and why I think Milwaukee could be a good destination for him. Develop him as a long-term Brook Lopez replacement. He may even develop a three-point shot.

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=LockNation101

I also like him in Memphis as a Steven Adams replacement, LA as a backup to AD, and Denver as a backup to Jokic. OKC could also use him to back up Chet and help remedy their rebounding/size issues. LA and Milwaukee have exposed those weaknesses at times.

We'll just have to wait and see if his fantastic 3/4 court sprint and lane agility test combine results show on an NBA court. Rudy and many other bigs got more mobile after adopting an NBA strength and conditioning program. I'm sure there are improvements for Zach to make athletically. Hell, Steve Nash continued to get better athletically during his prime.

[The-Power]

The word ‘unplayable’ is thrown around way too lightly these days. The modern NBA has made it a lot more difficult for some types of players but it's still all about the trade-offs. If Edey is adding enough value on offense, or can be effective in certain defensive coverages (likely drop à la Brook Lopez with the Bucks), NBA teams will find minutes for him even if he's exploitable.

Whether he adds enough value is, of course, something we can and should debate. But to simply refer to his old-school offensive game or his shortcomings defending in space and conclude on this basis that there's no way he'll be playable in the NBA is overly simplistic and ultimately erroneous. There is a path for Edey. We'll see if he and his team can make it work. The attempt is worth a FRP.

[Bloodbather]

no he wasnt

Long, fat, slow and can't jump?

did you actually watch them play or just going by their tinder profiles? Jokic can pass+shoot from day one, that's not Edey. even if you like Edey as a prospect this is a terrible comp.

Not comparing Jokić and Edey, but Jokić wasn't a shooter or a passer when he was drafted. He was a 22% 3PT and 66% FT shooter and averaged 2.0 APG.

He started showing those things during his stash year after he was drafted. You really think he would drop all the way to the 40s if he was a shooter and passer with that size going into the draft? He got drafted at all because of his size, rebounding, and soft hands.

[The-Power]

Long, fat, slow and can't jump?

did you actually watch them play or just going by their tinder profiles? Jokic can pass+shoot from day one, that's not Edey. even if you like Edey as a prospect this is a terrible comp.

Not comparing Jokić and Edey, but Jokić wasn't a shooter or a passer when he was drafted. He was a 22% 3PT and 66% FT shooter and averaged 2.0 APG.

He started showing those things during his stash year after he was drafted. You really think he would drop all the way to the 40s if he was a shooter and passer with that size going into the draft? He got drafted at all because of his size, rebounding, and soft hands.

Raw assist numbers and percentages should never be your primary basis for evaluation, especially when it comes to big men. The former says as much if not more about role (offensive primacy, system, minutes) than ability, and the latter requires some more contextualization (midrange ability, volume, mechanics).

Jokic was not highly touted because of a perceived lack of athleticism. His skill-set was, however, not lost to scouts and pundits. Some quick examples:

Jokic always seems to have a sharp sense of his surroundings. He has a great feel for when plays are developing and knows where his teammates are in relation to the defense. Consequently, he's able to make some superb plays as a passer and convert easy buckets as a cutter.
[...]
Jokic had shown some glimpses of outside shooting during his Adriatic League season, but he shot just 22 percent from behind the international line in 2013-14. However, his smooth, accurate tosses at the Hoop Summit didn't go unnoticed, as he looked like a potential stretch big. His high release should serve him well in spot-up opportunities. He also has a nice touch from mid-range and near the hoop. He can hit turnarounds from 10-15 feet as well as short hooks and flip shots.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2096255-nikola-jokic-nba-draft-2014-highlights-scouting-report-and-more –– June 2014

There's no doubt that Jokić is the best passing big man in th draft. He clearly grew up playing the point guard considerin the way he conducts himself with the ball in his hands, and the accuracy of his passes. He is an absolutely terrific passe which is a very valuable tool for a team that likes to use the bigs on the high post. Factor in the fact he has shooting potential, then he can immediately fit into most rotations once he develops his skills.

[url]

Read on Twitter

?t=bscWRJ9ZMU19P9WLenkYEg&s=19[/url]

What stands out about Jokic is his incredible assist to turnover ratio at 3.0 vs 2.3 pace adjusted per 40. That is absolutely stellar for a 19 year old center playing in a professional league. [...] Nikola Jokic’s passing is an outlier level of good for a big prospect, and it gives him his own unique form of upside.

Beyond his passing, Jokic is a capable shooter although it didn’t show in his Adriatic sample as he only converted 15/68 3PA (22.1%). By all accounts this is not reflective of his shooting ability and the low % should be chalked up to poor variance. He seems to have a solid shot of becoming a competent NBA floor spacer.

https://deanondraft.com/tag/nikola-jokic/ –– June 2014

So obviously Jokic was identified as a very good passer and a promising shooter before the draft. Your claim to the contrary is demonstrably incorrect.

And this is all before we consider that Jokic was drafted at age 19 whereas Edey will be 22. We were able to watch him for four years in college and track his progression. We simply know that he has clear limitations as a passer, that he has not shown any noteworthy shooting development and still does not take 3s, and that he remains a ~70% FT shooter without any kind of improvement over four years. Edey's case has its own merits. There's no need to make him more of a mystery than he really is (in terms of the skills he has – how his play translates is obviously very much uncertain).

[tbhawksfan1]

I love Edey as a late FRP, early SRP. He's been drifting up on my board and I want my Hawks to grab him

[Bloodbather]

did you actually watch them play or just going by their tinder profiles? Jokic can pass+shoot from day one, that's not Edey. even if you like Edey as a prospect this is a terrible comp.

Not comparing Jokić and Edey, but Jokić wasn't a shooter or a passer when he was drafted. He was a 22% 3PT and 66% FT shooter and averaged 2.0 APG.

He started showing those things during his stash year after he was drafted. You really think he would drop all the way to the 40s if he was a shooter and passer with that size going into the draft? He got drafted at all because of his size, rebounding, and soft hands.

Raw assist numbers and percentages should never be your primary basis for evaluation, especially when it comes to big men. The former says as much if not more about role (offensive primacy, system, minutes) than ability, and the latter requires some more contextualization (midrange ability, volume, mechanics).

Jokic was not highly touted because of a perceived lack of athleticism. His skill-set was, however, not lost to scouts and pundits. Some quick examples:

Jokic always seems to have a sharp sense of his surroundings. He has a great feel for when plays are developing and knows where his teammates are in relation to the defense. Consequently, he's able to make some superb plays as a passer and convert easy buckets as a cutter.
[...]
Jokic had shown some glimpses of outside shooting during his Adriatic League season, but he shot just 22 percent from behind the international line in 2013-14. However, his smooth, accurate tosses at the Hoop Summit didn't go unnoticed, as he looked like a potential stretch big. His high release should serve him well in spot-up opportunities. He also has a nice touch from mid-range and near the hoop. He can hit turnarounds from 10-15 feet as well as short hooks and flip shots.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2096255-nikola-jokic-nba-draft-2014-highlights-scouting-report-and-more –– June 2014

There's no doubt that Jokić is the best passing big man in th draft. He clearly grew up playing the point guard considerin the way he conducts himself with the ball in his hands, and the accuracy of his passes. He is an absolutely terrific passe which is a very valuable tool for a team that likes to use the bigs on the high post. Factor in the fact he has shooting potential, then he can immediately fit into most rotations once he develops his skills.

[url]

Read on Twitter

?t=bscWRJ9ZMU19P9WLenkYEg&s=19[/url]

What stands out about Jokic is his incredible assist to turnover ratio at 3.0 vs 2.3 pace adjusted per 40. That is absolutely stellar for a 19 year old center playing in a professional league. [...] Nikola Jokic’s passing is an outlier level of good for a big prospect, and it gives him his own unique form of upside.

Beyond his passing, Jokic is a capable shooter although it didn’t show in his Adriatic sample as he only converted 15/68 3PA (22.1%). By all accounts this is not reflective of his shooting ability and the low % should be chalked up to poor variance. He seems to have a solid shot of becoming a competent NBA floor spacer.

https://deanondraft.com/tag/nikola-jokic/ –– June 2014

So obviously Jokic was identified as a very good passer and a promising shooter before the draft. Your claim to the contrary is demonstrably incorrect.

And this is all before we consider that Jokic was drafted at age 19 whereas Edey will be 22. We were able to watch him for four years in college and track his progression. We simply know that he has clear limitations as a passer, that he has not shown any noteworthy shooting development and still does not take 3s, and that he remains a ~70% FT shooter without any kind of improvement over four years. Edey's case has its own merits. There's no need to make him more of a mystery than he really is (in terms of the skills he has – how his play translates is obviously very much uncertain).

I mentioned his soft touch already. Pretty much all the things in the scouting reports point to his potential as a playmaker and shooter due to his soft touch, rather than anything that had already materialized. I did omit his basketball IQ as a selling point that was recognized back then, so that's an error on my part. His passing ability and the upside it offered appears to be noted by Kevin O'Connor pretty accurately, but I don't remember it being much of a talking point beyond him. Maybe playmaking would be a better way to put it rather than passing, his playmaking wasn't quite there heading into the draft, otherwise he'd have been valued a lot more. A big man with the ability to pass is pretty different from a full-on playmaking big.

His shooting, on the other hand, clearly wasn't there, there's no point doing negationist history based on hindsight. He developed massively in that regard during his stash year. I think it'd be a bit ridiculous to not consider being a 22% 3PT and 66% FT shooter as a pretty strong indicator, and it'd be insincere to argue it was a selling point when he was heading into the draft. Adding shooting to his game completely transformed Jokić as a prospect, because it also opened up his playmaking. There's no chance he falls to the 40s if scouts actually thought he had playmaking and shooting in his game already.

As for the comparison with Edey, there's no point bringing up why he's not like Jokić in a response to me, because I never compared them in the first place. I have a pretty shallow knowledge of Edey as a prospect, but it's pretty clear that they are not alike. I just responded to a point about Jokić heading into the draft.