dhsilv2 wrote:70sFan wrote:ballzboyee wrote:Those are just popularity awards, and Duncan being Mr. Clean Cut light skinned guy was destined to be a media darling. Kobe completely destroyed Duncan head-to-head in the playoffs.
Duncan is just overrated on RealGM, especially for a big. People have Duncan in the top 5 when he had a season when he should have been still in or close to his prime, and he averaged 13ppg/9reb/2ast, and people think he would be Jokic or Embiid in today's era? As a supposed "superstar," Duncan literally averaged 13ppg for an entire season on a championship-level roster, and people have him in top five all-time?
To be honest, I don't even think Duncan would have the versatility to play on the level of a guy like Karl-Anthony Towns. Duncan was very slow, methodical player on offense and a system guy under Popovich. Where is the idea coming from that he's going able to run and space the floor or attack every level of defense like Embiid with his shooting touch or be quick enough to front the basket like a lot of bigs today with their offensive versatility off the dribble? Or consistently hit a 3-point shot like Jokic or Towns? If you look at guy Towns and Jokic, they shoot like 85% from the line. Duncan had seasons where he was not much better than Shaq from the FT line. He once shot below 60% one season from the line. He was not a great shooter for much his career.
Based upon what would make even him a top three big in today's league, much less a top three player overall? People just have a huge recency bias because of the Spurs win over Lebron's Heat team in the Finals in 2014, and now they ridiculously overrate Duncan. Of course, Lebron wouild have to lose to another top five player and not a guy who got that carried by three other hall of famers and an all-time great coach.
Just looking at his skill sets that he showed while playing, if Duncan had to play like a modern big he would be roughly equivalent or slightly better than Brook Lopez. That's just being honest. The stats that we saw from Duncan when the Spurs went to more of spread 4-out of 1-in system are pretty much what he would have in today's NBA. He would be roughly somewhere between a 15-20ppg scorer and give you maybe 8 to 10 rebounds per game. His assist numbers would go up obviously. His impact defensively would we greatly watered down due to the fact he would no longer be a paint protector because he would pulled out to guard an opposing big on the perimeter. On offense he would be setting high ball screens and rolling off pics shooting 3's (assuming he would be an efficient shooter) or rolling to the basket, which was very similar to what the Spurs were doing when they won their last championship. That year Duncan averaged 15ppg/9reb/3ast.
This idea that Duncan's going to come into this era with these spread systems that are guard oriented and score 30ppg and be top 3 player is just not supported by any facts. There is only one true big in top 20 in scoring and that's Jokic. Giannis and Davis do not count because they both possess guard skill-sets with the ability to put the ball on the floor and dribble-drive to the basket from multiple levels (full court bringing the ball up, iso in half court, and from the post). Duncan was fairly good off the dribble and attacking the basket in a more limited way out of the post, but is Duncan going to be even a top 20 scorer in the league today? No, he's probably not. You can look at guy like Towns who has shot 40% from three for his career, much better free throw shooter than Duncan (Towns has even had a season where he almost shot 90% from the line), and a versatile and all-around skilled offensive player, and Towns is barely in the top 30 in scoring off 16 fga. Sixteen shots per game was roughly Duncan's career volume.
So, no, Duncan definitely not a top three player in this league. He's a good version Brook Lopez. Best case scenario that he would be as Towns on offense (unlikely), and he would still find some way to impact the game defensively like he did when he played. He's not going to be Embiid, Jokic, or even Giannis. All three of those guys are better offensively than Duncan by a pretty big margin.
That's one of the most absurd Duncan posts I have seen him on many levels.
This guy just said at 38 a player should be in or near their prime...
What in the world are you talking about? Duncan was 33-34 when he scored 13ppg. At worst that is the the back-end of a prime, and for a big can still be fully prime productive years. Jordan at 35 led the league in scoring at 28ppg and won MVP. Lebron James at 33-34 averaged 28ppg. Kareem around the same aged average 26ppg. People on here are saying Tim Duncan is top 5 all-time and top 3 in any era, but dude literally averaged 13ppg at the same age other top 5 all-time greats were leading the league in scoring and putting up monster numbers.
It's amazing to me that Duncan gets so many passes for things that if any other player had their resume, then they would absolutely get killed on the all-time lists. For example, if Kobe Bryant played with four other Hall of Fame players near or in their primes for most of his career and made the final multiple times, did not lead his team in scoring, and did not win Finals MVP multiple times, or really wasn't even the consensus best player on his team, nobody would have Kobe Bryant anywhere near the top 10 all-time, much less a top 5 player. Imagine if Lebron didn't win finals MVP a couple of times out of his four championships. Yet for some inexplicable reason Tim Duncan gets a pass on all of it. Now we are supposed to believe he would be a "top 3" player in any era. Repeat that to yourself, and think about what that actually means. That's like saying he's a top 3 player all-time.
These Tim Duncan fans are crazy.
Where are they getting these ideas of Timmy's supposed greatness?
Not only that, other than Lebron James, I cannot think of any player in the history of basketball whose HoF teammates get as little credit for his team's championships as Duncan. For example, from 1998 to 2000 David Robinson put up per 100 28ppg/16reb/4blk compared to Duncan's 31ppg/16/3blk. Duncan fans act as though David Robinson was completely irrelevant to the 1999 championship. This is maybe a top 20 player all-time who gets zero credit for a team and for a franchise he actually built. Tony Parker wins Finals MVP and Manu might be the best player team overall, and Duncan gets all the credit in 2007. In 2014, Duncan was the third or fourth best player on the team, but somehow Duncan gets all of the credit for that championship even though he was clearly coattail riding a championship roster with an all-time great system coach. No other player is getting into the top 5 all-time based upon Duncan's history. If Kobe Bryant, for example, scored 13ppg on a championship-level roster, then I doubt he is even ranked consensus a top 15 player. But for some reason, Tim Duncan is a top five player and a now apparently top three player in any era. Gimme a break.