dhsilv2 wrote:Optms wrote:blackcosmos wrote:Number 1
If 2003 TD play in today’s game. He is still the best player in the league.
Duncan was a low to high post player offensively. That game is outdated now. And TD wasn't a profilic scorer or athletic beast to make up for it in today's era, like a Shaq would. He wasn't versatile either like a KG was.
Alright, so now you take his HOF level defense. Best suited for half court, which the Spurs pre-2010 played exclusively, even more than the teams of the day. Now teams would take him out of the paint, nullifying his defense in several ways. Still elite, but not on the level he was in 2003.
So, now we transport a player than wasn't even the consensus best player in 2003 to the modern game - where the game isn't suited for him like it was in 2003. You expect him to somehow be the best player? How? That makes zero sense. Its an insult to today's players.
Duncan in the 2016 season, his last in the league...at this point barely able to jump over a piece of paper, was still 4th in some RAPM based metrics on defense in the entire league. 2003 Duncan, obviously we never got to see peak Duncan with his knees still fully healthy thanks to that 2000 injury, but he was still extremely explosive vertically and his arm length while not Wemby is very much in the Gobert range.
Now I don't think Duncan has any chance to surpass Jokic and I think him being clearly over Luca, Giannis, or Embiid is questionable. It's not because he wasn't athletic enough (he was) or that the game has changed too much. Defensively Duncan never dropped off from 1998 to 2016. He kept adapting his body bulking in the early 00's when he had to deal with Shaq and then as the league sped up, Duncan leaned out to keep up with the faster pace and needs for more mobility. Always falling back on his exceptional footwork and using his length to never have to gamble.
Duncan was in peak health until the mid 04 injury. After that he stayed in his prime until 07, but he was never quite as healthy as previously. Young Duncan was much more mobile and athletic than Jokic or Embiid. As you note, he dropped weight in 2012 when it became apparent he'd be better served carrying less weight. 2012-14 Duncan was actually better than he'd been in the previous few years as a result.