Bob8 wrote:Mavrelous wrote:
People here don't care about injuries. They don't care how good Mavs are when healthy. Or how improved Luka's +/- is after the trades and more luck with injuries. Funny enough they will always remember you how Jokic was incredible in the 2022 season. 6th place with 48 wins. Mavs will win 50+ this year, with 33 starting lineups and the most used lineup playing less than 200 minutes in the end of the season. Unfortunately Luka is not impactful enough to win 60.
I agree that Jokic gets the award, but not because Denver has more wins than Mavs, but because he had great season. Comparing Luka and SGA is basically comparing, far the most healthy team of the season and far the most injured team of the season. But hey give him 2nd place, nobody cares about those placing anyhow. Luka as a player is being superior. I hope they meet in playoffs, and if Mavs are healthy it will the most one sided series in the West.
the 2022 comparison is a bad comp. Jokic was far and away the best and most valuable player in that season. his main competitors played considerably less games than him and despite their teams winning more games - he even had more "individual" wins than Giannis, Embiid etc
Luka has played in 62 games Jokic 69 and SGA 70. has Luka been 10-12% more productive than Jokic or SGA per game?
I mean even if we disregard team wins entirely, we can't every disregar actual games played - you can't be valuable to your team from the bench, period.
all the Mavs injuries, lineups etc are def a factor and Luka is a better player than SGA but he isn't the 2023-4 MVP
fwiw, I think he has been better than SGA (despite playing with a horrible coach and all the injuries etc.) but playing 8 less games makes them a wash, i'd even give SGA the nod for 2nd place primarily for that reason
all of this has nothing to do with Luka's greatness btw. the team didn't have Kyrie and had all the other lineup and roster issues, thus they are where they are cummulatively and the sum of it all is important for MVP but has absoultely no bearing on the coming playoffs
I have the Nuggets, Wolves, Mavs and Clippers as the only teams with an actual realistic shot to win the West and I would place a serious wager on the Mavs beating the OKC in a series, they matchup very well with them and are flat out better in a playoff atmosphere, with that said I still have Luka a hair below SGA cummulatively for the season - you see, the two things aren't mutally exclusive
so to ur point yes, Jokic will win because of those couple of factors, playing 7-8 more games, winning more games individually and as a team, his advanced stats and the general narrative
that's not a knock on Luka at all and he very well may be the best player in the league at 25 (top 3 for sure) but he's not the MVP, he is 2nd or 3rd, depending on how one weighs the different parameters
it's not us on Rgm who "don't care about injuries" it's the award itself and the traditions of it
4th, 5th or 6th seeds don't win MVPs when their competition is better and has won more, even if their teams suffered more injuries
MVP is not a "what if" game
Jokic 2022 was an exception because he literally played with a G-league team for an entire season and his competition was considerably worse, played alot less and even had less individual wins! that isn't the case this year
MVP or not, Luka is well on his way to being a top 10 ATG player