OT: Other Toronto Sports teams

[Coco Costanza]

I'm not investing more time in the Jays until this FO shows me they're serious about winning. In seven years of running the team, they've yet to show me they are. Since they started their rebuild in 2017, the Jays have made the playoffs three* times (*making the playoffs during a shortened season with a negative run differential shouldn't count, but I included it anyway), winning a grand total of zero playoff games...

Obviously the Blue Jays have been disappointing, but baseball is a harder sport to get into the playoffs than basketball, and the Blue Jays play in the hardest division in sports. Consider the Jays, after winning the World Series in 1993, wouldn't make the playoffs for another 20 years.

[DelAbbot]

I predict the Raptors win another chip before the leafs or jays.

Also predict that people on this board will still be calling for Masai's head after they do it.

I predict Raptors win their next championship under someone not named Masai

[DelAbbot]

I'm not investing more time in the Jays until this FO shows me they're serious about winning. In seven years of running the team, they've yet to show me they are. Since they started their rebuild in 2017, the Jays have made the playoffs three* times (*making the playoffs during a shortened season with a negative run differential shouldn't count, but I included it anyway), winning a grand total of zero playoff games...

Obviously the Blue Jays have been disappointing, but baseball is a harder sport to get into the playoffs than basketball, and the Blue Jays play in the hardest division in sports. Consider the Jays, after winning the World Series in 1993, wouldn't make the playoffs for another 20 years.

It's harder to get into playoffs in MLB but once you get in you got a chance of winning the championship being on a hot run (see Marlins).

It's not hard to get into playoffs in NBA but its hard as hell to fluke your way to a championship

[ItsDanger]

If the Leafs didnt operate under a hard cap, they'd be able to increase their upside dramatically. That's a fact. Jays play in the toughest division in baseball, everyone knows that. I think the 3 teams are in different situations.

[Raps in 4]

I'm not investing more time in the Jays until this FO shows me they're serious about winning. In seven years of running the team, they've yet to show me they are. Since they started their rebuild in 2017, the Jays have made the playoffs three* times (*making the playoffs during a shortened season with a negative run differential shouldn't count, but I included it anyway), winning a grand total of zero playoff games...

Obviously the Blue Jays have been disappointing, but baseball is a harder sport to get into the playoffs than basketball, and the Blue Jays play in the hardest division in sports. Consider the Jays, after winning the World Series in 1993, wouldn't make the playoffs for another 20 years.

It is, but the Jays have been grossly mismanaged. Shatkins have been prioritizing FA signings over internal development, but we don't have a Yankees/Dodgers-level budget. The end result is a perennial WC team with a rapidly closing window of "contention". Since this FO doesn't know how to draft, we don't have prospects to replace our aging vets/departing FAs with. Neglecting player development is the worst thing an MLB FO can do.

[C_Money]

At least the Leafs are a winning team. The Raptors are one of the worst in the league.

Each team goes through rebuild cycles. The raptors are one of the most successful nba teams in the last 10 years we've been blessed with a lot of good basketball and a championship

The Raptors are not a major FA destination so have to build through the draft. The Leafs had to be bad for 4 years to get Matthews, Marner and Nylander. They have made some decent draft picks late in the 1st recently, like Knies and Easton Cowan, that should help soon. At least they were able to sign Tavares. No such level of player has signed with the Raptors.

When is the last time the Raps even had cap space to sign somebody? We might finally have it this summer but its been f**king forever since we were even in a position to do that.

[mihaic]

Tfc has a great start, better than Inter Miami. Much improved defense

[Psubs]

I'm not investing more time in the Jays until this FO shows me they're serious about winning. In seven years of running the team, they've yet to show me they are. Since they started their rebuild in 2017, the Jays have made the playoffs three* times (*making the playoffs during a shortened season with a negative run differential shouldn't count, but I included it anyway), winning a grand total of zero playoff games...

Obviously the Blue Jays have been disappointing, but baseball is a harder sport to get into the playoffs than basketball, and the Blue Jays play in the hardest division in sports. Consider the Jays, after winning the World Series in 1993, wouldn't make the playoffs for another 20 years.

It is, but the Jays have been grossly mismanaged. Shatkins have been prioritizing FA signings over internal development, but we don't have a Yankees/Dodgers-level budget. The end result is a perennial WC team with a rapidly closing window of "contention". Since this FO doesn't know how to draft, we don't have prospects to replace our aging vets/departing FAs with. Neglecting player development is the worst thing an MLB FO can do.

We've traded Groshans, Austin Martin, and others, only Moreno was initially deemed a bad trade.

[Raps in 4]

At least the Leafs are a winning team. The Raptors are one of the worst in the league.

Each team goes through rebuild cycles. The raptors are one of the most successful nba teams in the last 10 years we've been blessed with a lot of good basketball and a championship

The Raptors are not a major FA destination so have to build through the draft. The Leafs had to be bad for 4 years to get Matthews, Marner and Nylander. They have made some decent draft picks late in the 1st recently, like Knies and Easton Cowan, that should help soon. At least they were able to sign Tavares. No such level of player has signed with the Raptors.

Yeah, the Leafs operate in a totally different reality. Hockey is a winter sport and most NHL players are Canadian. It's a reverse of the NBA, with Toronto being the NY/LA of the NHL.

[Bruin]

Y’all should invest more of your fandom energy into a college team. Toronto sports are generally shambles except for the Raptors which are undergoing a rebuilding phase now

I’ve had a much better experience being able to turn to college sports when the Raptors **** the bed

[Kordic27]

Each team goes through rebuild cycles. The raptors are one of the most successful nba teams in the last 10 years we've been blessed with a lot of good basketball and a championship

The Raptors are not a major FA destination so have to build through the draft. The Leafs had to be bad for 4 years to get Matthews, Marner and Nylander. They have made some decent draft picks late in the 1st recently, like Knies and Easton Cowan, that should help soon. At least they were able to sign Tavares. No such level of player has signed with the Raptors.

Yeah, the Leafs operate in a totally different reality. Hockey is a winter sport and most NHL players are Canadian. It's a reverse of the NBA, with Toronto being the NY/LA of the NHL.

Actually, weirdly, with a few exceptions it seems like a lot of Canadian born players avoid Toronto, even if they were leaf fans growing up. Spotlight/ pressure / criticism is too massive. And it kindve makes sense - you can make the same money in the majority of US locations, and be literally anonymous outside the rink.

[Dennis 37]

At least the Leafs are a winning team. The Raptors are one of the worst in the league.

Each team goes through rebuild cycles. The raptors are one of the most successful nba teams in the last 10 years we've been blessed with a lot of good basketball and a championship

The Raptors are not a major FA destination so have to build through the draft. The Leafs had to be bad for 4 years to get Matthews, Marner and Nylander. They have made some decent draft picks late in the 1st recently, like Knies and Easton Cowan, that should help soon. At least they were able to sign Tavares. No such level of player has signed with the Raptors.

Taveres is the exception. In the past decades either top end talent didn't want to come here, or when they did the FO was going through a stupid phase.

[M3tro]

It's only a matter of time before the Leafs core break through and make a Finals run.

Look at the Capitals and Ovechkin. People clowned on them for years as being chokers until it all lined up and they got the Cup.

Thus will begin another insufferable bandwagon.

[ForeverTFC]

Each team goes through rebuild cycles. The raptors are one of the most successful nba teams in the last 10 years we've been blessed with a lot of good basketball and a championship

The Raptors are not a major FA destination so have to build through the draft. The Leafs had to be bad for 4 years to get Matthews, Marner and Nylander. They have made some decent draft picks late in the 1st recently, like Knies and Easton Cowan, that should help soon. At least they were able to sign Tavares. No such level of player has signed with the Raptors.

Taveres is the exception. In the past decades either top end talent didn't want to come here, or when they did the FO was going through a stupid phase.

Leafs are like the Knicks. Should be an FA destination but for a multitude of reasons, it is not.

The Raptors are the best run team in Toronto and we owe a lot of that to the autonomy that Masai earned as well as the prestige that made him very much untouchable in this city. The pitchforks are out for him now among some, led by Ed Rogers, so here is hoping he wins the battle and DelAbbot has to change his username again.

[wegotthabeet]

At least the Leafs are a winning team. The Raptors are one of the worst in the league.

Each team goes through rebuild cycles. The raptors are one of the most successful nba teams in the last 10 years we've been blessed with a lot of good basketball and a championship

The Raptors are not a major FA destination so have to build through the draft. The Leafs had to be bad for 4 years to get Matthews, Marner and Nylander. They have made some decent draft picks late in the 1st recently, like Knies and Easton Cowan, that should help soon. At least they were able to sign Tavares. No such level of player has signed with the Raptors.

The Tavares signing is what killed their flexibility. In hard stagnant cap environment it hurt them severely. Dubas left a huge mess to clean up and it can’t really start until Tavares is off the books or re-signed at a much lower rate.

[DelAbbot]

The Raptors are not a major FA destination so have to build through the draft. The Leafs had to be bad for 4 years to get Matthews, Marner and Nylander. They have made some decent draft picks late in the 1st recently, like Knies and Easton Cowan, that should help soon. At least they were able to sign Tavares. No such level of player has signed with the Raptors.

Taveres is the exception. In the past decades either top end talent didn't want to come here, or when they did the FO was going through a stupid phase.

Leafs are like the Knicks. Should be an FA destination but for a multitude of reasons, it is not.

The Raptors are the best run team in Toronto and we owe a lot of that to the autonomy that Masai earned as well as the prestige that made him very much untouchable in this city. The pitchforks are out for him now among some, led by Ed Rogers, so here is hoping he wins the battle and DelAbbot has to change his username again.

What an honour to be acknowledged as the head of "fire Masai quad"!!

This account is the only one I have had and I use same nickname on other Toronto sports forums. I'm not going to sign up another one.

[Dennis 37]

Each team goes through rebuild cycles. The raptors are one of the most successful nba teams in the last 10 years we've been blessed with a lot of good basketball and a championship

The Raptors are not a major FA destination so have to build through the draft. The Leafs had to be bad for 4 years to get Matthews, Marner and Nylander. They have made some decent draft picks late in the 1st recently, like Knies and Easton Cowan, that should help soon. At least they were able to sign Tavares. No such level of player has signed with the Raptors.

The Tavares signing is what killed their flexibility. In hard stagnant cap environment it hurt them severely. Dubas left a huge mess to clean up and it can’t really start until Tavares is off the books or re-signed at a much lower rate.

Maybe so, but the point is he is/was a top level talent who actually want to come here. That just doesn't happen. Rumour has it that the Leafs had a chance at Gretzky when he left St. Louis. That was pre-cap days and the Leafs just didn't want to throw the fans a bone.

[BBS22]

Each team goes through rebuild cycles. The raptors are one of the most successful nba teams in the last 10 years we've been blessed with a lot of good basketball and a championship

The Raptors are not a major FA destination so have to build through the draft. The Leafs had to be bad for 4 years to get Matthews, Marner and Nylander. They have made some decent draft picks late in the 1st recently, like Knies and Easton Cowan, that should help soon. At least they were able to sign Tavares. No such level of player has signed with the Raptors.

The Tavares signing is what killed their flexibility. In hard stagnant cap environment it hurt them severely. Dubas left a huge mess to clean up and it can’t really start until Tavares is off the books or re-signed at a much lower rate.

COVID is what killed the Leafs flexibility. A once in a century event happened which froze the salary cap. Dubas and the Leafs in particular were impacted because they invested heavily in 4 players with the logical assumption the cap would smoothen things out. You can disagree with the Tavares signing (he's played pretty well to his contract all things considered). Now the choice to stick to the plan after COVID falls entirely on the Leafs management, that I agree.

The cap freezing literally is the difference between this Leafs team having 50 goal scorer Zack Hyman on the team at $5.5 million on the first line versus Michael Bunting (950K). And this is pretty unique to the NHL. The NBA salary cap kept going up during COVID and has a luxury tax. The NHL itself is raking in money - this isn't a case that the league is losing money at all. Management and Gary Bettman obviously want a lower salary cap so they can collect the profits. None of this was fair to the Leafs but that's life.

To put in perspective, the NHL salary cap has only moved $2 million since the Raptors championship parade in 2019, barely a Garrett Temple amount.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

At least the Leafs are a winning team. The Raptors are one of the worst in the league.

No they are not - maybe you were too busy watching hockey, but we are sitting all our players.

The Raptors are champions and still the second best team of the decade.

Hockey sucks, and you will never get a cup.

[And1Skip]

The Raptors are not a major FA destination so have to build through the draft. The Leafs had to be bad for 4 years to get Matthews, Marner and Nylander. They have made some decent draft picks late in the 1st recently, like Knies and Easton Cowan, that should help soon. At least they were able to sign Tavares. No such level of player has signed with the Raptors.

The Tavares signing is what killed their flexibility. In hard stagnant cap environment it hurt them severely. Dubas left a huge mess to clean up and it can’t really start until Tavares is off the books or re-signed at a much lower rate.

Maybe so, but the point is he is/was a top level talent who actually want to come here. That just doesn't happen. Rumour has it that the Leafs had a chance at Gretzky when he left St. Louis. That was pre-cap days and the Leafs just didn't want to throw the fans a bone.

That deal for Gretzky was a done and agreed to, but the cheap owner at the time Stavro vetoed it - was too cheap.