[Krawczynski] Alex Rodriguez and Marc Lore in serious talks to become the next owners of the Minnesota Timberwolves

[wolves_89]

One additional thought I wanted to put out there that has nothing to do with personal finances or legal questions is that the behind the scenes stuff that A-Rod and Lore have brought really does have a major impact. The biggest example is the number of players who have re-signed on what can be considered bargain deals. Naz, NAW, Jaden, and Mike have all taken less than they likely would have gotten on the open market. Having guys clearly choosing the Wolves when they have other real options is something new.

[KGdaBom]

When it comes to the rules/legal stuff my opinion is that Shrink is the best of us. I fight with YoungGuns over IMO his fatalistic look at our team, but that has gotten much better recently. I believe he is one of the very brightest on the board. I have heard the name Hartford Whalers spoken with reverence on several occasions. I've never seen him before his post last night. I'll take him as probably being one of the biggest experts in all of RealGM based on his reputation. I take their opinions into greater account than other opinions, especially when other opinions seem to be emotionally charged and biased because they don't like Glen.

For the record…

I just don’t like Glen.

Ditto

Thanks for supporting my point. Shrink, YoungGuns and Hartford Whalers are all more credible sources.

[guest81]

For the record…

I just don’t like Glen.

Ditto

Thanks for supporting my point. Shrink, YoungGuns and Hartford Whalers are all more credible sources.

I don't think anyone here can be a reliable source. It's not like my dislike from Taylor is coming from nowhere. I've watched him run this team since he owned it. He has a track record of this kind of disfunction

[TimberKat]

Ditto

Thanks for supporting my point. Shrink, YoungGuns and Hartford Whalers are all more credible sources.

I don't think anyone here can be a reliable source. It's not like my dislike from Taylor is coming from nowhere. I've watched him run this team since he owned it. He has a track record of this kind of disfunction

I do agree. Also hearing he was against Gobert and Connelly move and I am sure it was not for on the court reasons and more on the money side. The only thing I give him credit for is keeping the team in Minnesota.

[shrink]

The fact that Taylor wont allow Lore and ARod in certain parts of the arena, and wont let staff communicate with them is the tell that Taylor is in the wrong here. Taylor had sellers remorse, plus was jealous of the popularity and success under those two. Hopefully the board of governors and the other owners can force this guy out.

Can you imagine tying up so much money into an investment for two years or whatever and then your contractual partner just locks you out?

That’s just not right.

I agree that it’s not right ethically. But remember, in their interview with Dane, ARod and Lore tried to make themselves look good and were willing to inject a private conversation they had with Ethan Cassan, very publicly involving the Wolves CEO in this mess. That’s not good for the organization, and the fans, either. We all want the basketball operation to keep running while the sides battle this out legally.

But the ethical or not, I wanted to comment because this is the way NBA organizations are run, and this is why controlling interest is such a fight. Minority owners get to own a chunk of the team, reap its profits and pay its expenses, but they are held captive to the whims of the majority partner. Every limited partner knows this when they buy in. If they disagree, or they feel there is a contractual right is being denied them, they have to fight in court (like Meyer Orbach did when the buy out was announced).

I’m not saying it’s right. But it’s within a majority owner’s pervue to do it. He paid for it.

[shrink]

For the record…
I just don’t like Glen.

Ditto

And I totally respect that position. Taylor has certainly done things over the last 35 years that are worthy of being disliked!

But the past, and people’s feelings about it, are not going to have one ounce of importance in the legal battle that is destined to occur here. Forbes isn’t changing its valuation of Lore because we blame Glen for the Joe Smith deal. And to be blunt, they aren’t going to change it when Lore tells people he’s worth $4 billion either.

Elsewhere I’ve noticed in larger discussions, most NBA fans of other teams doubt ARod and Lore have the money, but a segment of Wolves fans do. I know many of them want Glen out, period, and that is a totally valid opinion, and not undeserved. But I caution people to try to look at the information in this case objectively when they do their analysis, not just agree with whatever side they want to be true. You guys chose not to come to any fan board, you chose RealGM, and we should try to be real.

[shrink]

I have heard the name Hartford Whalers spoken with reverence on several occasions. I've never seen him before his post last night. I'll take him as probably being one of the biggest experts in all of RealGM based on his reputation.

Oh no! Now he’s going to get a big head!

Seriously though, HartfordWhalers has been following this very closely over on the Trade Board for over a year, digging deep, and he has been skeptical whether ARod and Lore could afford the team for even longer than that. If you liked the post he made on the board that I linked to, and the one he posted here, I wanted people to know they can find several more of his exceptional posts on this topic over on the Trade Board, in the last few “Thoughts in General” threads.

[Saltine]

Lore owns %27 of the Wolves. The Wolves current valuation in the deal they just struck with the new investors is $2.3 billion. So Lore has at least $621 million in net worth just from the Wolves, without Walmart stocks, Wonder (raised $1.8 billion so far), properties (his tribeca penthouse is worth over $50 million), etc... which means he is a billionaire.
https://streeteasy.com/building/443-greenwich-street-new_york/pha

Very silly stuff going on around here.

It not just ARod and Lore, Eric is the other guy. Eric is worth around $30 billion.
https://www.bloomberg.com/billionaires/profiles/eric-e-schmidt/?embedded-checkout=true

I suppose he's not liquid either?

[guest81]

Lore owns %27 of the Wolves. The Wolves current valuation in the deal they just struck with the new investors is $2.3 billion. So Lore has at least $621 million in net worth just from the Wolves, without Walmart stocks, Wonder (raised $1.8 billion so far), properties (his tribeca penthouse is worth over $50 million), etc... which means he is a billionaire.
https://streeteasy.com/building/443-greenwich-street-new_york/pha

Very silly stuff going on around here.

It not just ARod and Lore, Eric is the other guy. Eric is worth around $30 billion.
https://www.bloomberg.com/billionaires/profiles/eric-e-schmidt/?embedded-checkout=true

I suppose he's not liquid either?

I can totally buy that arod doesn't have the money. Lore I think does

[thinktank]

I'm not a financial expert. I'm influenced by what Hartford Whalers, Shrink, and YoungGunsMN have to say. They are giving me the concern.

Ok. With respect, I don’t know why you would trust one poster source over another.

My thought is that whoever owns the team has massive collateral for whatever is needed.

When it comes to the rules/legal stuff my opinion is that Shrink is the best of us. I fight with YoungGuns over IMO his fatalistic look at our team, but that has gotten much better recently. I believe he is one of the very brightest on the board. I have heard the name Hartford Whalers spoken with reverence on several occasions. I've never seen him before his post last night. I'll take him as probably being one of the biggest experts in all of RealGM based on his reputation. I take their opinions into greater account than other opinions, especially when other opinions seem to be emotionally charged and biased because they don't like Glen.

Dohkay.

[thinktank]

Thanks for supporting my point. Shrink, YoungGuns and Hartford Whalers are all more credible sources.

I don't think anyone here can be a reliable source. It's not like my dislike from Taylor is coming from nowhere. I've watched him run this team since he owned it. He has a track record of this kind of disfunction

I do agree. Also hearing he was against Gobert and Connelly move and I am sure it was not for on the court reasons and more on the money side. The only thing I give him credit for is keeping the team in Minnesota.

Bingo.

If anyone has a track record of lying here, it’s TAYLOR!!!

[thinktank]

To say these guys are not wealthy is preposterous to begin with. If this guy knew what he was talking about he should have said at minimum that they are not liquid. Lore is worth 4 billion according to Forbes.

You sure about that? Mind including a reference because...

1) He isn't included in the billionaire list when I look at the real time rankings: https://www.forbes.com/real-time-billionaires/#27f3b8243d78

2) He isn't included in the billionaire list when I look at the end of 2023: https://www.forbes.com/billionaires/

3) Forbes instead describes him as worth considerably less than your 4B figure:

But Lore, who is worth more than $500 million

https://www.forbes.com/sites/noahkirsch/2021/07/01/electric-jets-underground-garbage-and-no-land-ownership-welcome-to-marc-lores-city-of-the-future/?sh=1f44c8b16c12

4) Any calculation I have seen that gets to 4B includes ~3B that Lore was absolutely not paid.

5) Similarly, other public sources peg him at less than a billion in Net worth, such as:

Marc E. Lore has an estimated net worth of $642 Million.

https://www.benzinga.com/sec/insider-trades/0001684616/marc-e-lore

It is just that all the research I have seen makes it look like you are just wrong, so would appreciate you sharing what you have seen that contradicts Forbes itself.

Your Bezinga link:

“ Who is Marc E. Lore?
Marc E. Lore has an estimated net worth of $642 Million. This is based on reported shares across multiple companies, which include Walmart Inc., and Archer Aviation Inc..”

This valuation is only based on “shares of stock”?

Nobody here or anywhere, with any money, owns only “shares of stock”.

I can tell you personally that I’m worth a fat chunk that I could maybe retire on today as a 46 year old who has worked as a consultant for just about 20 years and I don’t have ANY shares of stock. Zero.

Tell me you understand that smart people are heavily invested into assets that span across the market as well as different financial product types.

For real.

If someone has 642 million worth of stock, they’re likely worth MUCH MORE than that.

[HartfordWhalers]

Having enough to retire on at 46 with 0 stock is unusual.

[Nick K]

The more that comes out the more it looks like Lore and arod have the legal right. My prediction is that the ultimately become the owners but throw in something extra to Glen in order for him to save face

I think that would have to be an out of court settlement. I'm very concerned that if A Rod and Lore get the team they won't have the financial capability to operate it.

I honestly don't understand that thinking. Do you actually think the NBA would approve any purchase of a team from poorly funded owners? The NBA has already done due diligence on Lo/Rod financial condition. Plus, you can bet Glen Taylor had his own people check out the financial viability to begin with.

Then you apparently forget the Dyal group and their financial viability. The league has already approved their financial worthiness. The paperwork for the deal was submitted to the league early last week well ahead of the deadline as reported nationally.

Further, do you actually think the Dyal group would invest 300 million of their dollars to a Lo/Rod group that wasn't capable of operating the team? I just don't get this "they don't have the money" argument. It defies common logic.

You also seen to forget Taylor himself didn't pay cash for in full for the Wolves when he bought it. He had several limited partners too.

Glen is just trying to back out of a "good faith deal". That alone says much about him. Not to mention Glen taking credit for the success of the team when he was against the Gobert trade and the Connelly hire. I question Glen's state of mind at age 82.

[Nick K]

The fact that Taylor wont allow Lore and ARod in certain parts of the arena, and wont let staff communicate with them is the tell that Taylor is in the wrong here. Taylor had sellers remorse, plus was jealous of the popularity and success under those two. Hopefully the board of governors and the other owners can force this guy out.

That's not a tell at all. One thing seems obvious. The Board of Governors will not approve the sale with a huge part of the sale being a high interest loan from the Dyal Group.[/quote]

300 million of 1.5 billion is a huge part? I think you need to work on your fractions. Who said anything about a high interest loan? The Dyal group is making an investment in the team. I would question where you are getting your information from.

[thinktank]

Having enough to retire on at 46 with 0 stock is unusual.

I’m sure it is but what percent of your portfolio is in individual stocks, for example?

I bet it’s nowhere near 50% and you know I’m right.

If Lore has 650 million in stock I would guess he’s worth at least double that amount and likely triple, minimum.

The first 10 years of my career I worked at a fortune 250 financial firm so I know my ****. Automated 98% of their brokerage new business. Bring this topic on, my friend.

[HartfordWhalers]

Having enough to retire on at 46 with 0 stock is unusual.

I’m sure it is but what percent of your portfolio is in individual stocks, for example?

I bet it’s nowhere near 50% and you know I’m right.

If Lore has 650 million in stock I would guess he’s worth at least double that amount and likely triple, minimum.

The first 10 years of my career I worked at a fortune 250 financial firm so I know my ****. Automated 98% of their brokerage new business. Bring this topic on, my friend.

It’s weird how then Forbes knows less than you and doesn’t list him as a billionaire.
But you seem so sure, you must be right.

[thinktank]

Having enough to retire on at 46 with 0 stock is unusual.

I’m sure it is but what percent of your portfolio is in individual stocks, for example?

I bet it’s nowhere near 50% and you know I’m right.

If Lore has 650 million in stock I would guess he’s worth at least double that amount and likely triple, minimum.

The first 10 years of my career I worked at a fortune 250 financial firm so I know my ****. Automated 98% of their brokerage new business. Bring this topic on, my friend.

It’s weird how then Forbes knows less than you and doesn’t list him as a billionaire.
But you seem so sure, you must be right.

Forbes has multiple valuations for Lore.

One said 4 billion plus.

You’re choosing not to answer my question about what percent of your portfolio is in individual stocks.

Nobody in their right mind is invested 100% in stocks. You know this.

[Texas Chuck]

Your Bezinga link:

“ Who is Marc E. Lore?
Marc E. Lore has an estimated net worth of $642 Million. This is based on reported shares across multiple companies, which include Walmart Inc., and Archer Aviation Inc..”

This valuation is only based on “shares of stock”?

Nobody here or anywhere, with any money, owns only “shares of stock”.

I can tell you personally that I’m worth a fat chunk that I could maybe retire on today as a 46 year old who has worked as a consultant for just about 20 years and I don’t have ANY shares of stock. Zero.

Tell me you understand that smart people are heavily invested into assets that span across the market as well as different financial product types.

For real.

If someone has 642 million worth of stock, they’re likely worth MUCH MORE than that.

I get you don't want Whalers to be right. And maybe he isn't. But he is providing you with very detailed information from a highly credible source and your rebuttal is well if he owns this much in stock I'm just going to assume he is worth 3x that because I can retire at 46 and worked in finance?

Sorry if that doesn't really sound like any kind of strong rebuttal.

Do you think if he owned substantial real estate that Forbes would know and account for it?
If he had large holdings in index funds, other securties would Forbes know?
Does he have gold in safety deposit boxes?

Since you are an expert, help me, an admitted novice, understand why you are so confident despite basically all of the public information on them showing problem after problem coming up with the money to complete this purchase. Really the only contradictory info is their own statements and your opinion as a guy who could retire early without having invested in individual stocks(but almost certainly having made money in the market).

Honest question. Right now, despite your trust me bro mantra, I'm skeptical.

[Mattya]

The fact that Taylor wont allow Lore and ARod in certain parts of the arena, and wont let staff communicate with them is the tell that Taylor is in the wrong here. Taylor had sellers remorse, plus was jealous of the popularity and success under those two. Hopefully the board of governors and the other owners can force this guy out.

That's not a tell at all. One thing seems obvious. The Board of Governors will not approve the sale with a huge part of the sale being a high interest loan from the Dyal Group.

It’s very obvious a tell. Why would you not allow your co owners speak to staff or be in the building if this isn’t Taylor’s massively inflated ego?