Bulls/Wolves

[Mike lorenzo]

BULLS
In:Reid
Out:White

I understand that many of us think that Chicago should sink, but ownership thinks differently... here they fit... with the return of Lavine completely healthy and the probable extension of Demar (+Ayo even Lonzo) White would be "expendable".. I think this team can compete for a place in the top 4.
Draft..Collier/Dillingam or Sheppard?

Vuc/Dru
Reid/Craig/Phillips
DDR/P.Will/Terry
Lavine/Ayo/Bitin
AC/Draft/Lonzo/Carter



WOLVES
In:White
Out:Reid

with Naz's explosion...he's basically expiring + With KAT's new contract it will be impossible for them to keep him...Here they get Ant's backcourt partner...locked into a friendly contract

[Skybox]

I think White’s got more value than Reid…like a first more, but I see no reason for CHI to make this trade, regardless of whether they tank or retool.

[pipfan]

Interesting idea-we like White A LOT, but I know Reid would fit well. We could actually let DDR walk and go with
Ayo/Carter/Caruso (Ball)
Lavine/Caruso/Javonte Green
PWill/Caruso/Terry
Reid/Craig/Phillips
Vuc/Drummond/Reid

MUCH better on defense, and we could boost Lavine's value. Maybe, to balance things out we get Moore (not sure if he's worth anything or not).

For Minny, White is scrappy and play solid D now. His ball handling and passing have also improved, and he's a great kid. Wolves would love him, and he'd get open looks

[Wolveswin]

Value wise each team will like “my guy” more so probably equal value.

From Wolves standpoint, Reid is a in house Towns replacement. So, such a trade would mean not trading Towns and his huge contract, unless a forward replacement is acquired. And since OP trade doesn’t really help money wise, means Wolves are ok spending so much tax and floating by 2nd apron.

Interceding trade.

[ChettheJet]

Absolutely no way for the Bulls. Coby White can take over and win games for them. Reid at best is a 5th option and role player to the 4 better players ahead of him. You put up the chart DeRozan, Lavine, Vucevic and if they start Caruso at the PG Lavine and DeRozan will dominate the ball even more than they ever have. Ayo running the offense would be the call so where does Reid fit in? They can sign a lower cost PF to fill that role and still have White.

If they resign DeRozan and still have Lavine, they keep Ayo still improving and just like White signed to very team friendly contracts. Also resigning DeRozan puts them squarely in run back this group mode so they're better off bringing back Patrick Williams who is still younger than Reid and knows their system.

[Wolveswin]

Absolutely no way for the Bulls. Coby White can take over and win games for them. Reid at best is a 5th option and role player to the 4 better players ahead of him. You put up the chart DeRozan, Lavine, Vucevic and if they start Caruso at the PG Lavine and DeRozan will dominate the ball even more than they ever have. Ayo running the offense would be the call so where does Reid fit in? They can sign a lower cost PF to fill that role and still have White.

If they resign DeRozan and still have Lavine, they keep Ayo still improving and just like White signed to very team friendly contracts. Also resigning DeRozan puts them squarely in run back this group mode so they're better off bringing back Patrick Williams who is still younger than Reid and knows their system.

Just to be fair, you aren’t applying equal standards to judge the performance/production of both players.

Reid you blame (discredit) him for being 4/5th best player - role type player on good team. But, you give White credit for “taking over” games on bad team.

Reverse their teams. Reid could “take over” games on a bad team too - at least the level White does. Just as White would be asked and required to be 4/5th role player on Wolves.

That is main reason why I am OK trading Towns. Reid with Towns out replaces 70-80% of him. I shutter at thought of trading Reid to a bad team and watch him blow up - given opportunity.

[shrink]

I hear Naz getting tossed around more and more in trades, which is a compliment that people are seeing who he is, and what he is becoming. I wanted to mention though that he would be a difficult player for Tim Connelly to trade away. He is very popular on the team, especially with Ant. The fans love the guy, especially his story of starting as an undrafted free agent and all the hard work he’s put in. They also love that he chose to extend for less with the Wolves, days before free agency, because he was happy here and wanted to pay back Minnesota for their faith in him. We’re not the Lakers - that doesn’t happen here. And all that goodwill comes before talking about his on-court value.

As WW mentions, Naz is a safety valve if the new owners (whoever they may be), decide to cut salary and trade Towns. But even if the team is left intact, Naz has a big role in MIN.

The Wolves team advantage is their size. They have so many players on the team that are long and tall, that even if a team has good big starters, they need a fourth and fifth good big to keep up. MIN fills its C, PF, and usually SF positions with 48 minutes of quality players that are 6-9 or taller (Gobert, Towns, Naz, McDaniels, Anderson). I understand people saying “but that means overlap!” and they are right, and it may limit the minutes and stats of some individual players. But that’s where the team spent their money, and that gives the team a big competitive advantage that helps them win games.

It will be tough for Connelly to trade Naz.

[Godaddycurse]

I hear Naz getting tossed around more and more in trades, which is a compliment that people are seeing who he is, and what he is becoming. I wanted to mention though that he would be a difficult player for Tim Connelly to trade away. He is very popular on the team, especially with Ant. The fans love the guy, especially his story of starting as an undrafted free agent and all the hard work he’s put in. They also love that he chose to extend for less with the Wolves, days before free agency, because he was happy here and wanted to pay back Minnesota for their faith in him. We’re not the Lakers - that doesn’t happen here. And all that goodwill comes before talking about his on-court value.

As WW mentions, Naz is a safety valve if the new owners (whoever they may be), decide to cut salary and trade Towns. But even if the team is left intact, Naz has a big role in MIN.

The Wolves team advantage is their size. They have so many players on the team that are long and tall, that even if a team has good big starters, they need a fourth and fifth good big to keep up. MIN fills its C, PF, and usually SF positions with 48 minutes of quality players that are 6-9 or taller (Gobert, Towns, Naz, McDaniels, Anderson). I understand people saying “but that means overlap!” and they are right, and it may limit the minutes and stats of some individual players. But that’s where the team spent their money, and that gives the team a big competitive advantage that helps them win games.

It will be tough for Connelly to trade Naz.

Are you going to pay him after next year?
If so are you trading KAT to make room for him? It ultimately comes down to KAT or Naz once Naz becomes a FA in another year

[shrink]

I hear Naz getting tossed around more and more in trades, which is a compliment that people are seeing who he is, and what he is becoming. I wanted to mention though that he would be a difficult player for Tim Connelly to trade away. He is very popular on the team, especially with Ant. The fans love the guy, especially his story of starting as an undrafted free agent and all the hard work he’s put in. They also love that he chose to extend for less with the Wolves, days before free agency, because he was happy here and wanted to pay back Minnesota for their faith in him. We’re not the Lakers - that doesn’t happen here. And all that goodwill comes before talking about his on-court value.

As WW mentions, Naz is a safety valve if the new owners (whoever they may be), decide to cut salary and trade Towns. But even if the team is left intact, Naz has a big role in MIN.

The Wolves team advantage is their size. They have so many players on the team that are long and tall, that even if a team has good big starters, they need a fourth and fifth good big to keep up. MIN fills its C, PF, and usually SF positions with 48 minutes of quality players that are 6-9 or taller (Gobert, Towns, Naz, McDaniels, Anderson). I understand people saying “but that means overlap!” and they are right, and it may limit the minutes and stats of some individual players. But that’s where the team spent their money, and that gives the team a big competitive advantage that helps them win games.

It will be tough for Connelly to trade Naz.

Are you going to pay him after next year?
If so are you trading KAT to make room for him? It ultimately comes down to KAT or Naz once Naz becomes a FA in another year

Good point, and no one is talking about trading either one locally.

[sisibilio]

I think they're trading KAT this summer, there's no way to sort the finances otherwise.
Something around Cam Johnson as a cheaper alternative sounds interesting.

[jpatrick]

I think they're trading KAT this summer, there's no way to sort the finances otherwise.
Something around Cam Johnson as a cheaper alternative sounds interesting.

I kind of agree with this. The caveat being, if KAT returns for the playoffs and we go a finals run, I don’t think you can do anything but run it back, despite the 100m tax bill.

Absent that, I see a trade. Listening to a recent podcast, they suggested the Pistons. They have huge amounts of cap space with no one to spend it on. Maxing a 32 year old Tobias Harris, really?

KATs ability to play 4 and 5 and be the best shooting big in the league, would make him a good fit with Duren. Maybe with his shooting you could also work with a poor shooting SF like Thompson. Maybe.

I could see a deal being centered around Ivey plus cap space for KAT. Pistons can select a Reed Sheppard type in the draft, whose shooting makes him a better fit. It would be a step back for MN though and I’m not entirely sure how Ivey would fit with Ant.

[shrink]

I think they're trading KAT this summer, there's no way to sort the finances otherwise.
Something around Cam Johnson as a cheaper alternative sounds interesting.

I kind of agree with this. The caveat being, if KAT returns for the playoffs and we go a finals run, I don’t think you can do anything but run it back, despite the 100m tax bill.

I can’t imagine the tax bill is over $75, even assuming they bring back Monte Morris and Ant gets the supermax. (Both likely).

And in the middle of this ownership mess over “who has my money.” I don’t think either group is going to cut salary next year to save themselves some lux taxes. Maybe Lore would be forced to, but better for both to spend on salary and try to get a new arena.

In 2025, it isn’t just Naz with a player option - Rudy does too. This doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll take the $46.5 mil and become a UFA the following season when he’s 34. If the Wolves are successful, you might see a smaller number for more years. To Rudy’s credit, he takes great care of his body.

[Wolveswin]

I think they're trading KAT this summer, there's no way to sort the finances otherwise.
Something around Cam Johnson as a cheaper alternative sounds interesting.

I kind of agree with this. The caveat being, if KAT returns for the playoffs and we go a finals run, I don’t think you can do anything but run it back, despite the 100m tax bill.

Absent that, I see a trade. Listening to a recent podcast, they suggested the Pistons. They have huge amounts of cap space with no one to spend it on. Maxing a 32 year old Tobias Harris, really?

KATs ability to play 4 and 5 and be the best shooting big in the league, would make him a good fit with Duren. Maybe with his shooting you could also work with a poor shooting SF like Thompson. Maybe.

I could see a deal being centered around Ivey plus cap space for KAT. Pistons can select a Reed Sheppard type in the draft, whose shooting makes him a better fit. It would be a step back for MN though and I’m not entirely sure how Ivey would fit with Ant.

Don’t suggest KAT trades around here, long arm of the Shrink law will find you. This is a no KAT trade message board.

Back to your idea…

Pistons make sense for Towns. In the East, ton of cap, ready to win more. I don’t think any possible way Ivey is the target. And Pistons owing a 1st already complicates it a little (from balancing value standpoint) but surely a deal to be found.