NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 5: So who's winning MVP? )

[Texas Chuck]

Is it just me or does everyone wish the MVP award included what players did/do in the playoffs as well?

I mean it might be cool to turn the Russell into more of a Conn Smythe trophy accounting for the entire playoffs, but essentially the guy who wins the Russell would win that almost every year(and the years they don't its because voters did something dumb like giving it to Iggy lol).

I'm cool with the MVP being a regular season award. All the other awards are and as soon as you include the playoffs it becomes solely about that not a good look when the league already has perception issues about the value of their regular season. Devaluing their own product just isn't a good idea.

[AleksandarN]

Jokic won MVP in 21-22 season over Embiid on a team that won 48 games.

Mavs should win 51 games so it isn't out of realm of possibility for Luka to win MVP over Jokic.

Not that similar.

Jokic won 3 less games than Embiid (I think he won more games of ones they actually played in), with his #2 and #3 basically missing the whole season. He played 6 more games than Embiid, and also swept him in analytics.

Denver currently has 7 more wins than Dallas, Murray has missed as much time as Kyrie, Luka has more missed games than Jokic, and Jokic still has a clear advantage in most analytics.

Also half of his teammates are not even in the league. That team was terrible

[Dirk]

Landale votes for Luka.

I was considering opening a topic "Jock Landale has kids", but turns out that he isn't married and he doesn't have kids.

[Archx]

Stephen A Smith is a racist scumbag.

I think he's trying to go down the same path as Skip. But Skip finally turned it around and speaks highly of Mavs and suddenly started loving Doncic because his schtick of hating didn't work. While SAS keeps screaming into the sun because he knows he gets views. And we all know controversial opinions always get views and people talk about it

I bet if there was a 50/50 between Joker or someone else, he would put Jokic like all the way down to 3rd or 4th place but he just can't this time because Jokic and Nuggets have been consistent.

[Swish77]

Is it just me or does everyone wish the MVP award included what players did/do in the playoffs as well?

I mean it might be cool to turn the Russell into more of a Conn Smythe trophy accounting for the entire playoffs, but essentially the guy who wins the Russell would win that almost every year(and the years they don't its because voters did something dumb like giving it to Iggy lol).

I'm cool with the MVP being a regular season award. All the other awards are and as soon as you include the playoffs it becomes solely about that not a good look when the league already has perception issues about the value of their regular season. Devaluing their own product just isn't a good idea.

Joker was the last player to win the MVP and finals MVP right?

[GeorgeSears]

Comparing Luka's 2024 season to Jokic's 2022 just doesn't work. The Nuggets were without their 2nd and 3rd (MPJ played the first 9 games only) best players all year. If you look at that roster, most of those players are either not in the league anymore or barely get any playing time. Yet, they still won 48 games.

[Exp0sed]

Sadly, this will be the last contested MVP race, once the young, tall and lanky kid starts getting the minutes and reps he deserves, it' over.
Bol Bol is coming and there's no stopping it.

I'm shocked people actually believe Wemby will be an MVP candidate anytime soon.

he'll be an MVP candidate if they trade for Trae and get a few good vets as early next season
more likely, by year 3 if they give him something to work with by then

barring injury he'll be the GOAT
I know it'll be very hard for people to accept because well...it's unfair

imagine being 7'5 AND being able to do what he can do, that's a one in a billion lottery odds this kid has won
so it'd be hard for most folks to feel a emotional connection, this kid has been mega blessed

thus for years, the naysayers would invent criteria's and move goal posts, make up reasons for why he isn't "him"
but he is and it's pretty plain to see. impact wise, he'll be the GOAT in a pretty decent likelihood

[QPR]

Jokic won MVP in 21-22 season over Embiid on a team that won 48 games.

Mavs should win 51 games so it isn't out of realm of possibility for Luka to win MVP over Jokic.

Not that similar.

Jokic won 3 less games than Embiid (I think he won more games of ones they actually played in), with his #2 and #3 basically missing the whole season. He played 6 more games than Embiid, and also swept him in analytics.

Denver currently has 7 more wins than Dallas, Murray has missed as much time as Kyrie, Luka has more missed games than Jokic, and Jokic still has a clear advantage in most analytics.

Recency bias is Luka's main hope as everything else favours Jokic.

[Handlez]

Jokic won MVP in 21-22 season over Embiid on a team that won 48 games.

Mavs should win 51 games so it isn't out of realm of possibility for Luka to win MVP over Jokic.

Not that similar.

Jokic won 3 less games than Embiid (I think he won more games of ones they actually played in), with his #2 and #3 basically missing the whole season. He played 6 more games than Embiid, and also swept him in analytics.

Denver currently has 7 more wins than Dallas, Murray has missed as much time as Kyrie, Luka has more missed games than Jokic, and Jokic still has a clear advantage in most analytics.

Recency bias is Luka's main hope as everything else favours Jokic.

PPG don't.

Worse teammates don't.

Health of teammates don't.

Playing with the same lineup don't.

Plenty doesn't.

Not everything is about advanced stats.

[zimpy27]

Comparing Luka's 2024 season to Jokic's 2022 just doesn't work. The Nuggets were without their 2nd and 3rd (MPJ played the first 9 games only) best players all year. If you look at that roster, most of those players are either not in the league anymore or barely get any playing time. Yet, they still won 48 games.

Right and Luka has had a poor team this year too. Point is that the team argument and wins seems irrelevant based on past.

It's going to come down to Jokic v Luka as players this season.

[QPR]

Not that similar.

Jokic won 3 less games than Embiid (I think he won more games of ones they actually played in), with his #2 and #3 basically missing the whole season. He played 6 more games than Embiid, and also swept him in analytics.

Denver currently has 7 more wins than Dallas, Murray has missed as much time as Kyrie, Luka has more missed games than Jokic, and Jokic still has a clear advantage in most analytics.

Recency bias is Luka's main hope as everything else favours Jokic.

PPG don't.

Worse teammates don't.

Health of teammates don't.

Playing with the same lineup don't.

Plenty doesn't.

Not everything is about advanced stats.

They're not exactly quantifiable arguments though, aside from PPG. They're mostly emotion-based.

It is a narrative based award though, so it just needs voters to buy into the whole "Luka is carrying poor/injured team mates and a poor coach" narrative though, as nothing else favours him aside from eye-catching counting stats.

The irony of course being Jokic's supporting cast is mostly good because of him, but may also end up as an argument against him.

[AleksandarN]

Not that similar.

Jokic won 3 less games than Embiid (I think he won more games of ones they actually played in), with his #2 and #3 basically missing the whole season. He played 6 more games than Embiid, and also swept him in analytics.

Denver currently has 7 more wins than Dallas, Murray has missed as much time as Kyrie, Luka has more missed games than Jokic, and Jokic still has a clear advantage in most analytics.

Recency bias is Luka's main hope as everything else favours Jokic.

PPG don't.

Worse teammates don't.

Health of teammates don't.

Playing with the same lineup don't.

Plenty doesn't.

Not everything is about advanced stats.

Jokic impacts his teammates more MVP. But one of your arguments is ppg?? Also you like to ignore difference in teams pace. How much usage a player has. Who is more efficient and shoots better. How many minutes a player averages. Also Murray has missed almost the amount of games that Irving has. Funny enough you don’t bring those up.

Read on Twitter

[Wolfgang630]

That was a shorten season wasn't it? my bad different season

Nah full season, 48-34

The other MVP was a shortened season though Nuggets were on 53 win pace that season.

Nothing eye popping as a team, nothing better than this Dallas team.

It's going to come down to narrative a bit. Give Jokic his 3rd after the chip or give Luka his first.

That team was ass. I am surprised that Nuggets had 40 let alone 48 wins. This Dallas team is so much better than that team. Not really getting the comparison

Read on Twitter

It’s hilarious people trying to equate this Dallas team to the team of g leaguers Jokic had to carry.

[Dirk]

Nah full season, 48-34

The other MVP was a shortened season though Nuggets were on 53 win pace that season.

Nothing eye popping as a team, nothing better than this Dallas team.

It's going to come down to narrative a bit. Give Jokic his 3rd after the chip or give Luka his first.

That team was ass. I am surprised that Nuggets had 40 let alone 48 wins. This Dallas team is so much better than that team. Not really getting the comparison

Read on Twitter

It’s hilarious people trying to equate this Dallas team to the team of g leaguers Jokic had to carry.

From same account

Read on Twitter

Is this a parody account to "hate on Luka"?

[AleksandarN]

That team was ass. I am surprised that Nuggets had 40 let alone 48 wins. This Dallas team is so much better than that team. Not really getting the comparison

Read on Twitter

It’s hilarious people trying to equate this Dallas team to the team of g leaguers Jokic had to carry.

From same account

Read on Twitter

Is this a parody account to "hate on Luka"?

Doesn't negate the teammates Jokic had that year and this mavs team is a lot better than that team.

[LeBronSpaghetti]

Is it just me or does everyone wish the MVP award included what players did/do in the playoffs as well?

I mean it might be cool to turn the Russell into more of a Conn Smythe trophy accounting for the entire playoffs, but essentially the guy who wins the Russell would win that almost every year(and the years they don't its because voters did something dumb like giving it to Iggy lol).

I'm cool with the MVP being a regular season award. All the other awards are and as soon as you include the playoffs it becomes solely about that not a good look when the league already has perception issues about the value of their regular season. Devaluing their own product just isn't a good idea.

Agree completely. Let MVP be for the regular season then for the playoffs a Conn Smythe style trophy would be much better than having a conference finals MVP and Finals MVP. Just do an MVP of the entire playoffs and call it a day. This would even open up the potential of a player on a losing team winning, which has happened just 5 times in NHL history.

[Dirk]

It’s hilarious people trying to equate this Dallas team to the team of g leaguers Jokic had to carry.

From same account

Read on Twitter

Is this a parody account to "hate on Luka"?

Doesn't negate the teammates Jokic had that year and this mavs team is a lot better than that.

The Mavs have had players miss many games (Kyrie, Exum, Lilvely, even DJJr). Among the most played lineups on the Mavs you still see Luka with T. Hardaway Jr, J. Green, G. Williams.

They are coached by Jason Kidd who probably isn't as good of a coach as Mike Malone and the conference is also stronger/more competitive overall than that year probably. I doubt this is being factored in on the "a lot better".

[zimpy27]

Nah full season, 48-34

The other MVP was a shortened season though Nuggets were on 53 win pace that season.

Nothing eye popping as a team, nothing better than this Dallas team.

It's going to come down to narrative a bit. Give Jokic his 3rd after the chip or give Luka his first.

That team was ass. I am surprised that Nuggets had 40 let alone 48 wins. This Dallas team is so much better than that team. Not really getting the comparison

Read on Twitter

It’s hilarious people trying to equate this Dallas team to the team of g leaguers Jokic had to carry.

The current Mavs team are on 60-win pace since the big trades they made (and Luka missed a game that was a loss). Yes the Mavs team is better than Denver in 21-22 but that Mavs team is only a recent addition.


I think people that think Jokic is a lock for MVP should be pretty nervous right now. Luka on his current play for 8 more games is going to have some impact.

[AleksandarN]

From same account

Read on Twitter

Is this a parody account to "hate on Luka"?

Doesn't negate the teammates Jokic had that year and this mavs team is a lot better than that.

The Mavs have had players miss many games (Kyrie, Exum, Lilvely, even DJJr). Among the most played lineups on the Mavs you still see Luka with T. Hardaway Jr, J. Green, G. Williams.

They are coached by Jason Kidd who probably isn't as good of a coach as Mike Malone and the conference is also stronger/more competitive overall than that year probably. I doubt this is being factored in on the "a lot better".

Compare the teammates to that Nuggets team.( injuries also were a factor beside Murray and Porter other players were missing games) Who had the better team? You can’t say with a straight face that Jokic played with better teammates. Hence why I don’t think this was a good comparison

[JonHeist]

they should just rename the MVP the "Offensive Player of the Year" award

it's almost impossible to actually be valuable to a contender in the regular season nowadays

playoffs results are all that matter when 10 teams in each conference make them