2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - the calm before the storm

Post #1581 » by **Qwigglez** » Wed Apr 3, 2024 5:10 am

Calvin Klein wrote:JJ gets so much crap (some of it deserved) but when he eventually is fired I really hope he tells his side of the story.

Doubtful. He definitely signed an NDA.

James Jones was never a big talker anyway.

Hitachi77 · Post #1582 » by **Hitachi77** » Wed Apr 3, 2024 5:16 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:

Read on Twitter

I saw this and I can't (nor could be bothered to) verify it but Hunterbrook isn't out there doing great investigative journalism to the people, they are out to enrich themselves by shorting UWM before the reporting came out. They are a short fund, short and simple (pun intended).

That's not to say what they've uncovered isn't true but I think where it's devious is the purpose of 'outing' UWM in particular. And I'm also not saying what was reported isn't a bad look but I do think if you investigate any big company, you're bound to find things you're looking for.

All I can say is that, I think most CEO's have an a-hole angle. You kinda have to be a bit ruthless to get to the the top of your industry, you just generally don't know about it because it doesn't come to light.

Uh, what they described is very illegal. And if it’s as blatant as they described there is no way they would get away with it. Not defending the guy, and not saying shady stuff doesn’t happen. It absolutely does. But I wouldn’t automatically believe a report like that. There are very strict laws around that stuff, and while it happens, if you short or long a stock, and either pay off reporters to report on it, or know it’s coming before hand, the odds of getting away with it are very low.

SunsRback4Good · Post #1583 » by **SunsRback4Good** » Wed Apr 3, 2024 7:55 am

Let the rich do whatever they please it doesn’t make me lose sleep at night. It’s not like anyone here can get Matt fired so it’s a waste of time and resources. He’s our owner for the next foreseeable future and we should embrace it with open arms.

Calvin Klein · Post #1584 » by **Calvin Klein** » Wed Apr 3, 2024 10:56 am

SunsRback4Good wrote:Let the rich do whatever they please it doesn’t make me lose sleep at night.

What if it makes many others lose sleep?

SunsRback4Good · Post #1585 » by **SunsRback4Good** » Wed Apr 3, 2024 11:25 am

Calvin Klein wrote:
SunsRback4Good wrote:Let the rich do whatever they please it doesn’t make me lose sleep at night.

What if it makes many others lose sleep?

Then I suggest they take NyQuil

schnakenpopanz · Post #1586 » by **schnakenpopanz** » Wed Apr 3, 2024 2:24 pm

no one is missing sarver, but at the same time i think ishbia is not an angel or has done anything special so far.

sashaturiaf · Post #1587 » by **sashaturiaf** » Wed Apr 3, 2024 6:00 pm

Sarver sucks and Ishbia rules pretty much since he will spend, Jones made nice moves on paper this offseason which we all liked but ended up being shite(Goodwin, Yuta, KDP, Metu and the like), that to me is probably just bad luck. I still believe in JJ, he cut his losses quick smart when it was evident it wasn't working out

Post #1588 » by **bwgood77** » Wed Apr 3, 2024 10:49 pm

garrick wrote:
Calvin Klein wrote:I’ve listened to 5 minutes of the Pablo Torres podcast and I’m already fuming. I can’t believe nobody really talked about this stuff when it was all out there. It is so obvious how this guy operates…

I brought it up when it was announced he bought the team but I think most fans were euphoric that a billionaire was buying out broke ass Sarver they were willing to overlook any bad press about him.

Hell anyone could have gone to the UWM subreddit and gotten an insider look into how the man operates.

I was really hoping for Bezos who I imagine would be hands off but would not care about taxes. But anyone who didn't meddle and had a lot of money and was respectable. A hands off owner.

Ishbia just seems like a younger version of Sarver. I wonder how the players really feel about him. And if Jones likes him more or less than Sarver.

Post #1589 » by **lilfishi22** » Wed Apr 3, 2024 11:10 pm

schnakenpopanz wrote:no one is missing sarver, but at the same time i think ishbia is not an angel or has done anything special so far.

This is a very sensible take

Ghost of Kleine · Post #1590 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Thu Apr 4, 2024 12:05 am

Does anyone else also wonder if a fair part of the teams' mental disconnect could have anything to do with these concerns around the new ownership possibly being similar to the last? I'm not suggesting that it'd be the sole cause, but maybe a factor that's present?

Frank Lee · Post #1591 » by **Frank Lee** » Thu Apr 4, 2024 12:51 am

SunsRback4Good wrote:……..and we should embrace it with open arms.

And may be a pinched nose

Post #1592 » by **lilfishi22** » Thu Apr 4, 2024 1:13 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:Does anyone else also wonder if a fair part of the teams' mental disconnect could have anything to do with these concerns around the new ownership possibly being similar to the last? I'm not suggesting that it'd be the sole cause, but maybe a factor that's present?

No, not at all. Players want to win and the best way to win is to have talented players on the team and good coaching around you. I believe Ishbia has done what he can to add the best talent he can and put these players in an environment where they can be their best (ie training staff, medical staff etc). Now whether that spending pays dividends is a completely different matter. That's not to say Ishbia has been flawless in his ownership or decision making but so far, I think he's doing what he can within his power (mostly spending) to bring the best talent, the best coaching and the best environment he can.

A major cause of last season's less than stellar regular season record had far more to do the rotating wheel of injuries to key players than the Sarver controversy that was happening.

I also don't think this new ownership is close to being similar to the last.

sunsbum · Post #1593 » by **sunsbum** » Thu Apr 4, 2024 1:22 am

At least with the last few years of sarver I enjoyed the product on the floor. Now I'm having trouble appreciating anything that has to do with the suns besides memories a logos.

Post #1594 » by **lilfishi22** » Thu Apr 4, 2024 1:36 am

sunsbum wrote:At least with the last few years of sarver I enjoyed the product on the floor. Now I'm having trouble appreciating anything that has to do with the suns besides memories a logos.

Don't forget that was after a decade of no playoffs and average of 24 wins over the 2nd half of that decade. And not to mention the myriad of bad decisions over the decade before that

Hitachi77 · Post #1595 » by **Hitachi77** » Thu Apr 4, 2024 1:43 am

bwgood77 wrote:
garrick wrote:
Calvin Klein wrote:I’ve listened to 5 minutes of the Pablo Torres podcast and I’m already fuming. I can’t believe nobody really talked about this stuff when it was all out there. It is so obvious how this guy operates…

I brought it up when it was announced he bought the team but I think most fans were euphoric that a billionaire was buying out broke ass Sarver they were willing to overlook any bad press about him.

Hell anyone could have gone to the UWM subreddit and gotten an insider look into how the man operates.

I was really hoping for Bezos who I imagine would be hands off but would not care about taxes. But anyone who didn't meddle and had a lot of money and was respectable. A hands off owner.

Ishbia just seems like a younger version of Sarver. I wonder how the players really feel about him. And if Jones likes him more or less than Sarver.

Isn’t he the opposite of Sarver? Sarver = hands off, sells picks for cash, hates lux tax

Ish = hands on, doesn’t care about lux tax

Hitachi77 · Post #1596 » by **Hitachi77** » Thu Apr 4, 2024 1:46 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
sunsbum wrote:At least with the last few years of sarver I enjoyed the product on the floor. Now I'm having trouble appreciating anything that has to do with the suns besides memories a logos.

Don't forget that was after a decade of no playoffs and average of 24 wins over the 2nd half of that decade. And not to mention the myriad of bad decisions over the decade before that

Yeah Sarver cut the Nash era early by not wanting to pay for Kurt Thomas (though we did have that unexpected 2010 run). Just one example of many.

Calvin Klein · Post #1597 » by **Calvin Klein** » Thu Apr 4, 2024 1:49 am

I'm 99% sure Redick is talking about the current Suns team here at the 51:25 mark.:

Watch on YouTube

Post #1598 » by **lilfishi22** » Thu Apr 4, 2024 1:56 am

Hitachi77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
sunsbum wrote:At least with the last few years of sarver I enjoyed the product on the floor. Now I'm having trouble appreciating anything that has to do with the suns besides memories a logos.

Don't forget that was after a decade of no playoffs and average of 24 wins over the 2nd half of that decade. And not to mention the myriad of bad decisions over the decade before that

Yeah Sarver cut the Nash era early by not wanting to pay for Kurt Thomas (though we did have that unexpected 2010 run). Just one example of many.

KT was the big one people remember because he played a pivotal role in the Spurs series but most don't remember the timeline of when the cost cutting actually began (spoiler alert: almost immediately). Sarver bought the Suns in April 2004 and began to cut cost by trading his first FRP (Deng) in a draft day trade on 24 June of that year. He did it again the season after with a pick which turned into Rondo.

As innovative, influential and memorable as that SSOL Suns was, you would think it was a decade long perennial playoff team but that team really only lasted for 4 seasons (under MD) and a major part of that end was because of anti-competitive decisions Sarver made.

Hitachi77 · Post #1599 » by **Hitachi77** » Thu Apr 4, 2024 2:00 am

Thunder faltering fairly hard now. It looks like the Nuggets will still take the 1 seed. I’d hate for the Thunder to fall to the 3 and us the 6. Not to read so much into them sweeping us but they do play us very confidently. Ideally they end up playing the Lakers, who would have a great chance of taking them out, with their experience and seeming to match up better. The dream path for us is Twolves, Nuggets, Lakers, Heat in some order. And that’s something that could actually happen. Gotta dream sometime. Now we prolly lose tonight and out come the naysayers.

Hitachi77 · Post #1600 » by **Hitachi77** » Thu Apr 4, 2024 2:04 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Hitachi77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Don't forget that was after a decade of no playoffs and average of 24 wins over the 2nd half of that decade. And not to mention the myriad of bad decisions over the decade before that

Yeah Sarver cut the Nash era early by not wanting to pay for Kurt Thomas (though we did have that unexpected 2010 run). Just one example of many.

KT was the big one people remember because he played a pivotal role in the Spurs series but most don't remember the timeline of when the cost cutting actually began (spoiler alert: almost immediately). Sarver bought the Suns in April 2004 and began to cut cost by trading his first FRP (Deng) in a draft day trade on 24 June of that year. He did it again the season after with a pick which turned into Rondo.

As innovative, influential and memorable as that SSOL Suns was, you would think it was a decade long perennial playoff team but that team really only lasted for 4 seasons (under MD) and a major part of that end was because of anti-competitive decisions Sarver made.

Yup for sure. Was going to bring up those 2 sold picks that included Rondo but I feel like there’s so much more than even that, so I brought up the big one that sticks out. Even I forgot about Deng, maybe because that’s right before those Nash years.

Who will get the 7/8 seeds?