ATL gets their picks back

[pad300]

Ok, there's been a lot of heat on Trae Young to SAS (for the picks that SAS got from ATL for DJ Murray, and more). This is because ATL really wants those picks back; they ain't contending, and without having their own picks, they can't tank. But I'm not too sure that SAS wants anything to do with that proposal. I suspect they see Trae (talented though he is) as a trap... (Trae's expensive and is a weak defender. They may have character concerns as well.)

(They also don't think DJ was worth as much as they got for him... so they aren't looking to do that trade in reverse either).

So I thought I'd look at an alternative way to get ATL their picks back:

ATL out - DJ Murray, Jalen Johnson

SAS out - Devonte Graham, Malaki Branham, 25 FRP ATL, 27 FRP ATL, CHA 25 FRP (with protections), 27 FRP SAS, 26 ATL-SAS swap option is ATL's choice now (it is currently SAS's choice), 29 FRP SAS

[Mamba4Goat]

I don’t think Atlanta includes Jalen Johnson in this. He’s probably reasonably off limits.

I also don’t think they’d be able to keep Trae if they just turned two key players into picks with no win now pieces coming back. There’s a good likelihood that he asks out if they do this trade.

[HornetJail]

yeah no reason to put JJ in there. Murray for bench warmers, 2 1sts and the swap should be plenty good enough. Maybe ATL throws in Capela for something if the Spurs want a really good backup C who can play some minutes with Wemby.

[babyjax13]

I think without Trae it would take both Murray and Johnson to get the picks back. The question then would be between rebuilding around Trae, or flipping him for picks from elsewhere.

[LarsV8]

Alternate Proposal

To Houston
Trae Young

Houston needs a legitimate offensive engine, a true #1, and more 3 point shooting. They are in a unique position to be able to surround Trae with a ton of good defenders which is what Trae really needs.

To Atlanta
Dillon Brooks (Can be routed to 4th team for value + expiring)
JeSean Tate
Jock Landale
2025 Hawks pick returned
2026 Hawks swap extinguished
2027 Hawks pick returned
2028 Rockets pick unprotected

Atlanta is in a bind with the Murray / Trae pairing not working, and not having their picks. They don't seem to be able to recoup the value they gave up for Murray, and are actually winning more since Trae went out. They need help defensively, especially with Capela's sharp decline. Trade allows them to reset, and also have another cap space window, if they flip Brooks for an expiring.

To SAS
2024 Right to swap their worst first for Brooklyn's
2026 Right to swap their worst first for Brooklyn's
2027 Brooklyn #1 Unprotected

San Antonio swaps the Hawks future for the Nets future.

[dms269]

If Atlanta is trading for their picks back it is likely a full on rebuild, meaning Trae is going to request out as a result. I don't see the Hawks moving JJ for a chance to gamble on picks.

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[Wolveswin]

If Atlanta is trading for their picks back it is likely a full on rebuild, meaning Trae is going to request out as a result. I don't see the Hawks moving JJ for a chance to gamble on picks.

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This.

Hawks can have an interesting rebuild.

Trae + Hunter to Spurs for Vassell + Graham + ALL own Hawks Picks Returned (Bulls 1st too if they can pull it)

Vassell and JJ are new foundation. OO can stay as smaller piece too.

Then Murray to next highest bidder…

I like Murray + Capela to Pelicans for Murphy + McCollum + Picks (Lakers 1st as starter)

Okongwu
Jalen Johnson
Murphy
Vassell
McCollum (placeholder)

[jayjaysee]

I think DJM is enough to get the picks back. Trading Jalen for SAS’s picks once Jalen/Wemby (Vassell/Topic/Sochan/etc) are entering their primes. Feels like a bad idea despite looking decent.

I think Atlanta is more likely to double down this offseason and trade for another quality starter than enter a rebuild though.

[Colbinii]

To SAS
2024 Right to swap their worst first for Brooklyn's

Can you explain the value of this for San Antonio, considering they own a Charlotte protected 1st [Not Conveying], Toronto 1st [Currently ahead of the Nets in the standings] and their own 1st.

[jbk1234]

This is A LOT more than the Hawks getting their own picks back. Johnson's an interesting prospect, but I don't have him rated this highly, and Murray as a player is less enticing when you can't hide him on defense.

[LarsV8]

Can you explain the value of this for San Antonio, considering they own a Charlotte protected 1st [Not Conveying], Toronto 1st [Currently ahead of the Nets in the standings] and their own 1st.

Sorry, that should be Brooklyn's pick outright that Hou currently owns.

(Draft debits and credits, and Swaps are out of control right now)

[Colbinii]

This is A LOT more than the Hawks getting their own picks back. Johnson's an interesting prospect, but I don't have him rated this highly, and Murray as a player is less enticing when you can't hide him on defense.

Murray is a positive defensive player. I am confused why you would be hiding him?

[jbk1234]

This is A LOT more than the Hawks getting their own picks back. Johnson's an interesting prospect, but I don't have him rated this highly, and Murray as a player is less enticing when you can't hide him on defense.

Murray is a positive defensive player. I am confused why you would be hiding him?

When he played with White, he had the easier assignment. Now that he's sharing a backcourt with Trae, he's getting the more difficult one and I, personally, wouldn't describe his defense as positive.

[Colbinii]

This is A LOT more than the Hawks getting their own picks back. Johnson's an interesting prospect, but I don't have him rated this highly, and Murray as a player is less enticing when you can't hide him on defense.

Murray is a positive defensive player. I am confused why you would be hiding him?

When he played with White, he had the easier assignment. Now that he's sharing a backcourt with Trae, he's getting the more difficult one and I, personally, wouldn't describe his defense as positive.

The Atlanta Hawks have a terrible defensive ensamble.

First there is Trae Young, who is hunted on every single possession. Then there is Bogdan Bogdanovic and Saddiq Bey who were revolving doors defensively as wings.

Another thing to note is Murray is a good defensive PG but a poor defensive 2-guard. This matters a lot--players like Marcus Smart, Jrue Holiday and Derrick White are infinitely more valuable as a Defensive PG than when slotted next to a smaller PG. The same is true for Murray--he doesn't have the strength defensively to guard wings but he is large and quick enough to be a POA defender on most PG's in the NBA.

Furtheremore, and this is really where your post lost me, you said "is less enticing when you can't hide him on defense." You do realize the Spurs have the best defensive prospect in NBA History, a player who is in the DPOY running as a rookie and will likely be the face of DPOY for a majority of the next decade. Yet, this player can't help hide Dejounte Murray?

[shrink]

The publicity would be so bad for ATL, I doubt they could do it. It would be portrayed as:

“Undoing Hawks bad DeJounte Murray trade, costs them Jalen Johnson!”

[louc1970]

Going to make this as simply as possible (which means complicated and you won't like it):

Atlanta trades Young, Murray
Atlanta receives a return of the picks sent to SAS, Jones, Collins, Graham, Murphy 3, Johnson
Atlanta rebuilds with many parts that can be moved further or move existing parts. They will need guards but have Jalen Johnson, Trey Murphy and Hunter to stabilize the team. This year's picks could get them their 2G in Shannon, an offensive big in Filipowski, a defensive big in Chomche, a PG in Collier, etc... The team is young and has parts that can be traded in Capela, Bog, Okongwu and return late FRP or 2RPs.

SAS trades the Hawk picks, Jones, Collins, Graham, Johnson
SAS gets back Murray and Ingram
This might require one of this year's picks (which would not convey - Toronto/Charlotte), but the team would be set with only needing a PF or center or BPA.
Wemby, Clingan, Ingram, Vassell, Murray. Defense would be strong, scoring would have alternatives. Oldest player would be 27 on a friendly contract, still have plenty of cap money to get a PF/center.

NOP trades Ingram, Murphy
NOP gets Young
Young facilitating to put Williamson in the right spots, McCollum playing off ball, drafting an Ingram replacement or center at 14/20. No more risk of losing Ingram to FA or injury.

[dms269]

The publicity would be so bad for ATL, I doubt they could do it. It would be portrayed as:

“Undoing Hawks bad DeJounte Murray trade, costs them Jalen Johnson!”

Ressler doesn't seem like the type of owner who is willing to go full rebuild either. He ismprobably content at being a low playoff/play-in team, staying under the tax, snd keep making money. Moving Murray and a great young player in Johnson for picks doesn't seem like that direction.

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[Chinook]

I don't see the Spurs and Hawks as natural trade partners, so I don't really think the Hawks can get their picks back. If the Toronto pick rolls over, there will be legit pressure for the Spurs to trade a couple 2025 firsts, but I don't know that they'd trade away what's possibly the single best of those picks as a first plan.

There are moves ATL might make that SA can be cut into that could help. I'm not talking about the trades in this thread where SA gives up a ton of value to pay for another team to get a Hawks player in exchange for lesser assets. But I would be interested in seeing if the Bucks were serious about trading for Murray, for example. If MKE trade Middleton as part of a DJM deal, then I'd love for the Spurs to swoop in and grab him in exchange for some pick value going Atlanta's direction. Means teams that want Murray or Young will be offering players as part of their ballast that SA could use, and the Spurs could help add the value the Hawks want to pull the trigger.

[NYG]

I think DJM is enough to get the picks back. Trading Jalen for SAS’s picks once Jalen/Wemby (Vassell/Topic/Sochan/etc) are entering their primes. Feels like a bad idea despite looking decent.

I think Atlanta is more likely to double down this offseason and trade for another quality starter than enter a rebuild though.

Who is that player though?

[jayjaysee]

I think DJM is enough to get the picks back. Trading Jalen for SAS’s picks once Jalen/Wemby (Vassell/Topic/Sochan/etc) are entering their primes. Feels like a bad idea despite looking decent.

I think Atlanta is more likely to double down this offseason and trade for another quality starter than enter a rebuild though.

Who is that player though?

Lauri. Bridges. Kuzma. Grant+Thybulle. Are the normal ones. Maybe Demar.

But you could have fun and do KD or Gobert?