NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 5: So who's winning MVP? )

[Mavrelous]

Dunc'd on podcast ranking:
Tier1:
1. Jokic
2. SGA
Tier 2:
Luka and Giannis tied
Tier 3:
Kawhi Leonard, Jalen Brunson and Jason Tatum (Brunson and Tatum got the edge due to minutes)

[Exp0sed]

They are not but when there is a such a big difference (almost 8 more ppg) especially at this level (26+ ppg players), it DEFINITELY becomes significant.

Oh and it's not like Luka doesn't also have more assists and steals than Joker.

I

Joker is a center while Luka is a point guard, it's only normal he's got a bigger usage than joker but that shouldn't be hold against him as you still have to use those more minutes/usage effectively and that's exactly what Luka is doing and all of this while being much more double/triple teamed than Jokic.
And if Jokic played as many minutes as Luka, that wouldn't necessarily result in as many points and assists as Luka as he would also be more tired (especially as he is a center) and not necessarily as effective as he usually is.

Bro, Jokic plays about 34 mpg and Luka over 37. Jokic plays hard! he rarely takes plays off, he pushes the pace every chance he gets and he's got incredible stamina. he can play 37 and he can play 40 too, it just wouldn't be wise long term, wear and tear, mileage etc. and it isn't nessescary because 34 mpg from the Joker is enough to bring them to the cusp of the 1st seed, even with Murray missing 25 game. Luka takes plenty of plays off btw, mostly on D but not just. that's part of the impact stats reflect because impact stats don't just remember the highlight plays..they account for every play.

if he had to play 37 or 40 for that matter, he could just take a few select plays here and there, slow down the game etc. - he'd be fine, Jokic's stamina is probably the most underrated aspect of his game. he was maligned early in his career because of his build and he worked himself to incredible shape

ask most run of the mill Centers in the NBA who are matched up against him on the regular or simply watch the games?
Jokic is moving ALOT without the ball, behind screens etc., he's not Steph Curry but he isn't that far off either and with his frame, even 50% of Steph's level of activity is A.) amazing and B.) makes for a very tough cover for other big men who find it hard to keep up with him, stamina wise

facts are Luka has much higher usage and he plays 10-12% more mpg, we also have so much data to go on from stuff like 2022 where Jokic had to carry a team of AG and G-league players and from when he was asked to score more or take more on himself like say idk..every time he's in the playoffs? I mean, his usage is pedestrian during the rs (for a superstar) but it increases significantly in the playoffs, with great success. so we already know what Jokic can do with Luka's level of usage, we've seen it over and over

Luka takes more shots per possesion they both play and he gets to the line more - Jokic has the edge on him everywhere else (atm anyway) and he scores more efficiently, which means he uses up less possesions than Luka to score or generate the same number of points

[Bob8]

I

Joker is a center while Luka is a point guard, it's only normal he's got a bigger usage than joker but that shouldn't be hold against him as you still have to use those more minutes/usage effectively and that's exactly what Luka is doing and all of this while being much more double/triple teamed than Jokic.
And if Jokic played as many minutes as Luka, that wouldn't necessarily result in as many points and assists as Luka as he would also be more tired (especially as he is a center) and not necessarily as effective as he usually is.

Bro, Jokic plays about 34 mpg and Luka over 37. Jokic plays hard! he rarely takes plays off, he pushes the pace every chance he gets and he's got incredible stamina. he can play 37 and he can play 40 too, it just wouldn't be wise long term, wear and tear, mileage etc. and it isn't nessescary because 34 mpg from the Joker is enough to bring them to the cusp of the 1st seed, even with Murray missing 25 game. Luka takes plenty of plays off btw, mostly on D but not just. that's part of the impact stats reflect because impact stats don't just remember the highlight plays..they account for every play.

if he had to play 37 or 40 for that matter, he could just take a few select plays here and there, slow down the game etc. - he'd be fine, Jokic's stamina is probably the most underrated aspect of his game. he was maligned early in his career because of his build and he worked himself to incredible shape

ask most run of the mill Centers in the NBA who are matched up against him on the regular or simply watch the games?
Jokic is moving ALOT without the ball, behind screens etc., he's not Steph Curry but he isn't that far off either and with his frame, even 50% of Steph's level of activity is A.) amazing and B.) makes for a very tough cover for other big men who find it hard to keep up with him, stamina wise

facts are Luka has much higher usage and he plays 10-12% more mpg, we also have so much data to go on from stuff like 2022 where Jokic had to carry a team of AG and G-league players and from when he was asked to score more or take more on himself like say idk..every time he's in the playoffs? I mean, his usage is pedestrian during the rs (for a superstar) but it increases significantly in the playoffs, with great success. so we already know what Jokic can do with Luka's level of usage, we've seen it over and over

Luka takes more shots per possesion they both play and he gets to the line more - Jokic has the edge on him everywhere else (atm anyway) and he scores more efficiently, which means he uses up less possesions than Luka to score or generate the same number of points

Do you understand that what you're explaining is GOAT? MJ was not even close to what you're describing here.

[SA37]

Dunc'd on podcast ranking:
Tier1:
1. Jokic
2. SGA
Tier 2:
Luka and Giannis tied
Tier 3:
Kawhi Leonard, Jalen Brunson and Jason Tatum (Brunson and Tatum got the edge due to minutes)

IMO, it feels like the Kawhi MVP talk is forced. Why Kawhi and not Edwards?

Tatum's numbers are superior and Boston has far and away the best record in the L, so I wouldn't even have Kawhi in the same convo.

[hagredionis]

a pg always has a higher usage than a center, it's just how basketball works.

[Exp0sed]

Joker is a center while Luka is a point guard, it's only normal he's got a bigger usage than joker but that shouldn't be hold against him as you still have to use those more minutes/usage effectively and that's exactly what Luka is doing and all of this while being much more double/triple teamed than Jokic.
And if Jokic played as many minutes as Luka, that wouldn't necessarily result in as many points and assists as Luka as he would also be more tired (especially as he is a center) and not necessarily as effective as he usually is.

You understand that what you're explaining is GOAT? MJ was not even close to what you're describing here.

not at all..hardly "GOAT"
and just like everyone he is obviously affected by stamina, he'd have more legs under him with 34 mpg and not 37 mpg but the way he plays, he can be very effective even when he's a little gassed or even more than a little. Jokic is tough, mentally that is. he can play pretty effectively when not a 100% and it's nonsense imo, to claim that if Jokic played 37 mpg we'd see some dramatic downturn in his production or that if Luka played 34 then he would dramatically play better. sure, his efficiency will rise a bit and he'll have a tiny bit more energy to expend on the defensive end, it'd pretty negligble in the grand scheme of things

it's not just guesswork either, we have ample data of Jokic in OT games, 2OT games, entire playoff runs or just random games where he plays 40 mins - we already know the answer to that question and it's clear cut

why does moving alot without the ball make him a GOAT? you lost me on that part

fwiw, the Nuggets are well aware that Jokic has tremendous stamina and is in great shape which is why Malone elects to play him whole quarters. Jokic usually plays the entirety of the 1st and 3rd quarters. those are most of the "Jokic mins", yeah the ones the Nuggets usually dominate in. it's pretty hard for a team to defend, say you want to keep your best big defender on him, u think a guy like Nurkic or a Clint Capela can keep up wth the Joker for 12 straight mins? that's a tough task and the result is that those 12 mins stretches are very imposing on teams defenses :0

just watch the game bro, dude might be a lumbering, slow, heavyset Center but he's running up and down the court, usually beats his man to the other end, running around behind screens to catch the ball, he's even been pretty high this season when closing out to shooters beyond the 3 pt line, that is - his closeouts has been relatively successful (which means he is actualy moving around and not just Luke Kornetting it) and he does it for a full quarter at a time

I don't see what that has to do with being the GOAT tho
it just means that as it stands rn, he moves more than Luka on the court, works harder and has more stamina (despite being a C) and he could handle Luka's mins and usage just fine, he'd take a hit ofc (he's only a human) but it wouldn't be dramatic in terms of efficiency and will def come at the expense of a bit of defense, no doubt

you do realize that if the Nuggets did that, meaning - play Jokic 37.5 mins with high usage, he would be averaging 32/15/13 and the Nuggets would win 60 games..ironically, the Nuggets not electing to do that, is what's keeping him from the Goat convo, imagine him averging 32/15/13 with 60 wins following a playoff run that resulted in a chip wherein he has the most points, assists AND rebounds. was first in all 3 total categories

you don't think that would have stirred up some GOAT convo?

i'm not saying they should do it, not only do they want to prolong his career, longevity and protect him - it also serves no purpose on the court as they were the 1st seed last season and have a good chance to be 1st again so 37 mpg with high usage will be an overkill

moreover, Jokic wouldn't like that..he likes to get everyone involved and making plays and perhaps it's part of the cohesion that made the Nuggets champions, maybe if Jokic goes the nuclear heliocentric path - they don't get there

lastly, this isn't a knock on Luka's at all but Jokic is def better conditioned and that's up to Luka to work on that
the fact is the Nuggets can afford the less heliocentric strategy because Jokic does so much without the ball

it's harder to do with Luka because he does a bit less when he isn't directly involved in the play and he makes more mistakes too, that's all I said in my original post

and as for GOAT, Jokic isn't the GOAT
his peak has been insane, if he had his teammates healthy he may have had 2 rings already going for his 3rd

would it be so crazy then?
and again I don't think Jokic is the GOAT and to me GOAT is the best player ever, accolades matter less to me and Jokic is most def NOT the best basketball player ever, doesn't matter how many MVP's or other accolades he'll accumalte

he can have 10 MVPs for all I care, that wouldn't make him the GOAT and he isn't in the top 5 either (and won't get there)

[Exp0sed]

a pg always has a higher usage than a center, it's just how basketball works.

as stated the last time we were in this part of the groundhog day loop - Jokic is the Nuggets floor general
he's a point Center.

p.s, if that's how "basketball" works how come Embiid has way higher usage than Maxey? and also - how come Luka has the highest usage out of all the PG's in the league, is that also how "basketball" works?

[Bob8]

You understand that what you're explaining is GOAT? MJ was not even close to what you're describing here.

not at all..hardly "GOAT"
and just like anyone is obviously affected by stamina, he'd have more legs under him with 34 mpg and not 37 mpg but the way he plays, he can be very effective even when he's a little gassed or even more than a little. Jokic is tough, mentally that is. he can play pretty effectively when not a 100% and it's nonsense imo, to claim that if Jokic played 37 mpg we'd see some dramatic downturn in his production or that if Luka plays 34 then he would dramatically play better. sure, his efficiency will rise a bit and he'll a tiny bit more energy to expend on the defensive end, it'd pretty negligble in the grand scheme of things

it's not just guesswork either, we have ample data of Jokic in OT games, 2OT games, entire playoff runs or just random games where he plays 40 mins - we already know the answer to that question and it's clear cut

why does moving alot without the ball make him a GOAT? you lost me on that part

fwiw, the Nuggets are well aware that Jokic has tremendous stamina and is in great shape which is why Malone elects to play him whole quarters. Jokic usually plays the entirety of the 1st and 3rd quarters

just watch the game bro, dude might be a lumbering, slow, heavyset Center but he's running up and down the court, usually beats his man to the other end, running around behind screens to catch the ball, he's even been pretty high this season when closing out to shooters beyond the 3 pt line, that is - his closeout has been relatively successful and he does it for a full quarter at a time

I don't see what that has to do with being the GOAT tho
it just means that as it stands rn, he moves more than Luka on the court, works harder and has more stamina (despite being a C) and he could handle Luka's mins and usage just fine, he'd take a hit ofc (he's only a human) but it wouldn't be dramatic in terms of efficiency and will def come at the expense of a bit of defense, no doubt

you do realize that if the Nuggets did that, meaning - play Jokic 37.5 mins with high usage, he would be averaging 32/15/13 and the Nuggets would win 60 games..ironically, the Nuggets not electing to do that, is what's keeping him from the Goat convo, imagine him averging 32/15/13 with 60 wins following a playoff run that resulted in a chip wherein he has the most points, assists AND rebounds. was first in all 3 total categories

you don't think that would have stirred up some GOAT convo?

i'm not saying they should do it, not only do they want to prolong his career, longevity and protect him - it also serves no purpose on the court as they were the 1st seed last season and have a good chance to be 1st again so 37 mpg with high usage will be an overkill

moreover, Jokic wouldn't like that..he likes to get everyone involved and making plays and perhaps it's part of the cohesion that made the Nuggets champions, maybe if Jokic goes the nuclear heliocentric path - they don't get there

lastly, this isn't a knock on Luka's at all but Jokic is def better conditioned and that's up to Luka to work on that
the fact is the Nuggets can afford the less heliocentric strategy because Jokic does so much without the ball

it's harder to do with Luka because he does a bit less when he isn't directly involved in the play and he makes more mistakes too, that's all I said in my original post

and as for GOAT, Jokic isn't the GOAT
his peak has been insane, if he had his teammates healthy he may have had 2 rings already going for his 3rd

would it be so crazy then?
and again I don't think Jokic is the GOAT and to me GOAT is the best player ever, accolades matter less to me and Jokic is most def NOT the best basketball player ever, doesn't matter how many MVP's or other accolades he'll accumalte

he can have 10 MVPs for all I care, that wouldn't make him the GOAT and he isn't in the top 5 either (and won't get there)

Comparison you made between Jokic and Luka, would be pretty similar to Jokic and MJ. MJ was playing even more minutes than Luka, have similar usage, lower efficiency than Luka and was scoring a lot more than Luka from FTs . So you can easily say that Jokic could have scored as much as MJ with better efficiency, if he wanted. We all know that's far from truth. And don't forget MJ was pretty pedestrian in assisting and he couldn't do all those incredible screens Jokic is doing. Like some people are describing Jokic, I don't believe MJ was better in anything.

[Exp0sed]

You understand that what you're explaining is GOAT? MJ was not even close to what you're describing here.

Comparison you made between Jokic and Luka, would be pretty similar to Jokic and MJ. MJ was playing even more minutes than Luka, have similar usage, lower efficiency than Luka and was scoring a lot more than Luka from FTs . So you can easily say that Jokic could have scored as much as MJ with better efficiency, if he wanted. We all know that's far from truth.

oh I see, hell to the no

first of all, MJ was the best defender on the court guarding the opponent's best player more often than not. Luka is sometimes "parked" on the worst offensive player the opposing team is trotting out

secondly, MJ and Jokic are playing in a different era. MJ would have averaged 50 in today's game if he was on that 87-88 juice, meaning almost 40% usage around 40 mpg, if he operated with today's rules, schemes, spacing and shooting he'd average 50 so the point is moot.

we can pretty easily project Jokic stats with higher mins and or usage (in this era) because well, we have the playoffs for one but also we can use deduction and logic..

[Bob8]

Comparison you made between Jokic and Luka, would be pretty similar to Jokic and MJ. MJ was playing even more minutes than Luka, have similar usage, lower efficiency than Luka and was scoring a lot more than Luka from FTs . So you can easily say that Jokic could have scored as much as MJ with better efficiency, if he wanted. We all know that's far from truth.

oh I see, hell to the no

first of all, MJ was the best defender on the court guarding the opponent's best player more often than not. Luka is sometimes "parked" on the worst offensive player the opposing team is trotting out

secondly, MJ and Jokic are playing in a different era. MJ would have averaged 50 in today's game, if he operated with today's rules, schemes, spacing and shooting. so the point is moot.

we can pretty easily project Jokic stats with higher mins and or usage (in this era) because well, we have the playoffs for one but also we can use deduction and logic..

No we can't. Averaging 7.5 points more in RS is huge. It's like saying Luka would have had 70% TS and far more assists, if he was taking less and easier shots. You can't judge someone by his actual production and other ones by projections. Numbers are what they are and Jokic will deservedly win MVP, we don't need to write fairytales.

You're basically comparing what Luka is with what Jokic and MJ could have been.

[Archx]

Comparison you made between Jokic and Luka, would be pretty similar to Jokic and MJ. MJ was playing even more minutes than Luka, have similar usage, lower efficiency than Luka and was scoring a lot more than Luka from FTs . So you can easily say that Jokic could have scored as much as MJ with better efficiency, if he wanted. We all know that's far from truth.

oh I see, hell to the no

first of all, MJ was the best defender on the court guarding the opponent's best player more often than not. Luka is sometimes "parked" on the worst offensive player the opposing team is trotting out

secondly, MJ and Jokic are playing in a different era. MJ would have averaged 50 in today's game if he was on that 87-88 juice, meaning almost 40% usage around 40 mpg, if he operated with today's rules, schemes, spacing and shooting he'd average 50 so the point is moot.

we can pretty easily project Jokic stats with higher mins and or usage (in this era) because well, we have the playoffs for one but also we can use deduction and logic..

You don't think MJ would face the same amount of double and triple teams as Luka? He's the most blitzed and guarded player in the league, JJ and Lebron talked about it recently on their podcast or whatever that was. They said it's crazy how far ahead of everyone else Luka is. So i would assume MJ would see the same defenses. Averaging 50 pts would be almost impossible.


Also...

Read on Twitter

[Wolfgang630]

MJ wouldn’t average 50 points in todays game…can we please get off these fairy tale scenarios already

[Exp0sed]

Comparison you made between Jokic and Luka, would be pretty similar to Jokic and MJ. MJ was playing even more minutes than Luka, have similar usage, lower efficiency than Luka and was scoring a lot more than Luka from FTs . So you can easily say that Jokic could have scored as much as MJ with better efficiency, if he wanted. We all know that's far from truth.

oh I see, hell to the no

first of all, MJ was the best defender on the court guarding the opponent's best player more often than not. Luka is sometimes "parked" on the worst offensive player the opposing team is trotting out

secondly, MJ and Jokic are playing in a different era. MJ would have averaged 50 in today's game if he was on that 87-88 juice, meaning almost 40% usage around 40 mpg, if he operated with today's rules, schemes, spacing and shooting he'd average 50 so the point is moot.

we can pretty easily project Jokic stats with higher mins and or usage (in this era) because well, we have the playoffs for one but also we can use deduction and logic..

You don't think MJ would face the same amount of double and triple teams as Luka? He's the most blitzed and guarded player in the league, JJ and Lebron talked about it recently on their podcast or whatever that was. They said it's crazy how far ahead of everyone else Luka is. So i would assume MJ would see the same defenses. Averaging 50 pts would be almost impossible.


Also...

Read on Twitter

I think there used to be big men waiting down low and they had the license to foul hard, you think a guy like Ja Morant would be fying around back in the day? He would get decked

Guys like Lauri Markanen and Deni Avdija are routinley getting to the cup to finish with authority i don't even wanna mention a real explosive guy like ANT

There would be no1 to stop MJ from getting to the cup, so the shot charts\quality comparison is immaterial as he wouldn't be taking many mid range fadeaways lol, he'd be dunking and laying it in

There used to be a Center and a PF, nowadays Royce oneal and Bruce Brown are PF's, u think those guys can stop MJ to get whatever he wants at the rim?

And with the way the game was called up to this point..imagine MJ actively trying to get bumped and finish thru minimal contact..he'd draw fouls like Shaq in the post

Y'all are tripping imo

Anyways i didnt bring MJ into this, he has nothing to do with this i was merely responding to Bob who brought it up. There are countless places to debate how would MJ fare in this era, i dont think thread is it



Sent from my SM-A115F using RealGM mobile app

[Bob8]

oh I see, hell to the no

first of all, MJ was the best defender on the court guarding the opponent's best player more often than not. Luka is sometimes "parked" on the worst offensive player the opposing team is trotting out

secondly, MJ and Jokic are playing in a different era. MJ would have averaged 50 in today's game if he was on that 87-88 juice, meaning almost 40% usage around 40 mpg, if he operated with today's rules, schemes, spacing and shooting he'd average 50 so the point is moot.

we can pretty easily project Jokic stats with higher mins and or usage (in this era) because well, we have the playoffs for one but also we can use deduction and logic..

You don't think MJ would face the same amount of double and triple teams as Luka? He's the most blitzed and guarded player in the league, JJ and Lebron talked about it recently on their podcast or whatever that was. They said it's crazy how far ahead of everyone else Luka is. So i would assume MJ would see the same defenses. Averaging 50 pts would be almost impossible.


Also...

Read on Twitter

I think there used to be big men waiting down low and they had the license to foul hard, you think a guy like Ja Morant would be fying around back in the day? He would get decked

Guys like Lauri Markanen and Deni Avdija are routinley getting to the cup to finish with authority i don't even wanna mention a real explosive guy like ANT

There would be no1 to stop MJ from getting to the cup, so the shot charts\quality comparison is immaterial as he wouldn't be taking many mid range fadeaways lol, he'd be dunking and laying it in

There used to be a Center and a PF, nowadays Royce oneal and Bruce Brown are PF's, u think those guys can stop MJ to get whatever he wants at the rim?

And with the way the game was called up to this point..imagine MJ actively trying to get bumped and finish thru minimal contact..he'd draw fouls like Shaq in the post

Y'all are tripping imo

Anyways i didnt bring MJ into this, he has nothing to do with this i was merely responding to Bob who brought it up. There are countless places to debate how would MJ fare in this era, i dont think thread is it



Sent from my SM-A115F using RealGM mobile app

I don't believe we should debate about imaginary numbers of anyone. Jokic, who can score as much as Luka, more efficiently and doing everything he is already doing is a GOAT and would make Denver unbeatable for next 5 years. Fortunately for the rest of Nba nothing about that is realistic.

[Yuri36]

You don't think MJ would face the same amount of double and triple teams as Luka? He's the most blitzed and guarded player in the league, JJ and Lebron talked about it recently on their podcast or whatever that was. They said it's crazy how far ahead of everyone else Luka is. So i would assume MJ would see the same defenses. Averaging 50 pts would be almost impossible.


Also...

Read on Twitter

I think there used to be big men waiting down low and they had the license to foul hard, you think a guy like Ja Morant would be fying around back in the day? He would get decked

Guys like Lauri Markanen and Deni Avdija are routinley getting to the cup to finish with authority i don't even wanna mention a real explosive guy like ANT

There would be no1 to stop MJ from getting to the cup, so the shot charts\quality comparison is immaterial as he wouldn't be taking many mid range fadeaways lol, he'd be dunking and laying it in

There used to be a Center and a PF, nowadays Royce oneal and Bruce Brown are PF's, u think those guys can stop MJ to get whatever he wants at the rim?

And with the way the game was called up to this point..imagine MJ actively trying to get bumped and finish thru minimal contact..he'd draw fouls like Shaq in the post

Y'all are tripping imo

Anyways i didnt bring MJ into this, he has nothing to do with this i was merely responding to Bob who brought it up. There are countless places to debate how would MJ fare in this era, i dont think thread is it



Sent from my SM-A115F using RealGM mobile app

I don't believe we should debate about imaginary numbers of anyone. Jokic, who can score as much as Luka, more efficiently and doing everything he is already doing is a GOAT and would make Denver unbeatable for next 5 years. Fortunately for the rest of Nba nothing about that is realistic.

Wow, a center scoring more efficiently than a point guard...... pardon me but do you frigging know the game of basketball or are you just trolling?

[Bob8]

I think there used to be big men waiting down low and they had the license to foul hard, you think a guy like Ja Morant would be fying around back in the day? He would get decked

Guys like Lauri Markanen and Deni Avdija are routinley getting to the cup to finish with authority i don't even wanna mention a real explosive guy like ANT

There would be no1 to stop MJ from getting to the cup, so the shot charts\quality comparison is immaterial as he wouldn't be taking many mid range fadeaways lol, he'd be dunking and laying it in

There used to be a Center and a PF, nowadays Royce oneal and Bruce Brown are PF's, u think those guys can stop MJ to get whatever he wants at the rim?

And with the way the game was called up to this point..imagine MJ actively trying to get bumped and finish thru minimal contact..he'd draw fouls like Shaq in the post

Y'all are tripping imo

Anyways i didnt bring MJ into this, he has nothing to do with this i was merely responding to Bob who brought it up. There are countless places to debate how would MJ fare in this era, i dont think thread is it



Sent from my SM-A115F using RealGM mobile app

I don't believe we should debate about imaginary numbers of anyone. Jokic, who can score as much as Luka, more efficiently and doing everything he is already doing is a GOAT and would make Denver unbeatable for next 5 years. Fortunately for the rest of Nba nothing about that is realistic.

Wow, a center scoring more efficiently than a point guard...... pardon me but do you frigging know the game of basketball or are you just trolling?

You might read better and understand what I'm talking about. I'm talking about 34/12/10 RS Jokic. That's GOAT.

[blueNorange]

the fact that brunson isn’t even a poll option shows how much of a sham this is

he’s not winning it, but he’s the 2nd/3rd best choice based on impact + play

[Bob8]

the fact that brunson isn’t even a poll option shows how much of a sham this is

he’s not winning it, but he’s the 2nd/3rd best choice based on impact + play

Comparison between Brunson and supposedly 3rd best player. Mavs having 2 wins more in much better conference.

https://stathead.com/tiny/Z1920

Does this look close to you?

[kazyv]

MJ wouldn’t average 50 points in todays game…can we please get off these fairy tale scenarios already

well yeah, that's a given. MJ isn't going to average 50 in todays game, since he's 61 years old. i could see him being good in short bursts of a couple of minutes, say 10 ppg?

[Bob8]

MJ wouldn’t average 50 points in todays game…can we please get off these fairy tale scenarios already

well yeah, that's a given. MJ isn't going to average 50 in todays game, since he's 61 years old. i could see him being good in short bursts of a couple of minutes, say 10 ppg?

With 35 attempts and 45% usage.