NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 5: So who's winning MVP? )

[Woodsanity]

Dunc'd on podcast ranking:
Tier1:
1. Jokic
2. SGA
Tier 2:
Luka and Giannis tied
Tier 3:
Kawhi Leonard, Jalen Brunson and Jason Tatum (Brunson and Tatum got the edge due to minutes)

Not going to lie. I see zero case for SGA being higher than Luka right now when he has missed so many games recently and his team has been doing decent without him.

Jokic

Luka

SGA

Those are my three and in that order.

Giannis has no business being that high anymore considering how much the Bucks are struggling. The rest is ok, I wouldn't put Kawhi there due to games played. At least Brunson is included on this list.

[Mavrelous]

Not going to lie. I see zero case for SGA being higher than Luka right now when he has missed so many games recently and his team has been doing decent without him.

Jokic

Luka

SGA

Those are my three and in that order.

Giannis has no business being that high anymore considering how much the Bucks are struggling. The rest is ok, I wouldn't put Kawhi there due to games played. At least Brunson is included on this list.

Their argument was that Luka slightly better offensive production, is nullified by the gap in defense, they have SGA as 2nd team all defense.
They are really knowledgeable, know the stats and minor details, but I agree with you, I have Luka ahead also, and I have Giannis a tier below.

[dygaction]

Not going to lie. I see zero case for SGA being higher than Luka right now when he has missed so many games recently and his team has been doing decent without him.

Jokic

Luka

SGA

Those are my three and in that order.

Giannis has no business being that high anymore considering how much the Bucks are struggling. The rest is ok, I wouldn't put Kawhi there due to games played. At least Brunson is included on this list.

Their argument was that Luka slightly better offensive production, is nullified by the gap in defense, they have SGA as 2nd team all defense.
They are really knowledgeable, know the stats and minor details, but I agree with you, I have Luka ahead also, and I have Giannis a tier below.

It is really not "slightly" better offensive production. SGA has 8 double-doubles this season (3x on rebounds and 5x on assists), while Luka has 20 triple-doubles.

[blueNorange]

the fact that brunson isn’t even a poll option shows how much of a sham this is

he’s not winning it, but he’s the 2nd/3rd best choice based on impact + play

Comparison between Brunson and supposedly 3rd best player. Mavs having 2 wins more in much better conference.

https://stathead.com/tiny/Z1920

Does this look close to you?

amazing, brunson's better.

[Yuri36]

Not going to lie. I see zero case for SGA being higher than Luka right now when he has missed so many games recently and his team has been doing decent without him.

Jokic

Luka

SGA

Those are my three and in that order.

Giannis has no business being that high anymore considering how much the Bucks are struggling. The rest is ok, I wouldn't put Kawhi there due to games played. At least Brunson is included on this list.

Their argument was that Luka slightly better offensive production, is nullified by the gap in defense, they have SGA as 2nd team all defense.
They are really knowledgeable, know the stats and minor details, but I agree with you, I have Luka ahead also, and I have Giannis a tier below.

It is really not "slightly" better offensive production. SGA has 8 double-doubles this season (3x on rebounds and 5x on assists), while Luka has 20 triple-doubles.

It's interesting to indirectly include rebounds as an offensive stat though

[MoneyTalks41890]

SGA is 63.8% TS to Luka’s 61.7% (significant difference in efficiency), a much better defender, and has the better team record for the 2nd youngest team in the NBA. That’s the argument.

I’m not going to start talking about the January stats of the 13th best player on the team, though, so don’t expect me to get into your all’s back and forth here.

[Bob8]

SGA is 63.8% TS to Luka’s 61.7% (significant difference in efficiency), a much better defender, and has the better team record for the 2nd youngest team in the NBA. That’s the argument.

I’m not going to start talking about the January stats of the 13th best player on the team, though, so don’t expect me to get into your all’s back and forth here.

If difference in TS% is significant, which is btw. only in FTs, what about much bigger differences in all counting stats? They have exactly the same eFg%. Luka is having better VORP and BPM. You should be rewarded for playing in young and extremely healthy team?

I'm very disappointed that we won't see first round between Mavs and Thunder.

[MoneyTalks41890]

SGA is 63.8% TS to Luka’s 61.7% (significant difference in efficiency), a much better defender, and has the better team record for the 2nd youngest team in the NBA. That’s the argument.

I’m not going to start talking about the January stats of the 13th best player on the team, though, so don’t expect me to get into your all’s back and forth here.

If difference in TS% is significant, which is btw. only in FTs, what about much bigger differences in all counting stats? They have exactly the same eFg%. You should be rewarded for playing in young and extremely healthy team?

I'm very disappointed that we won't see first round between Mavs and Thunder.

Once they start excluding free throws from the box score we can talk about efficiency without them.

Yes, it's impressive to take a bunch of rookies and sophomores to the top of the conference. Takes a lot of leadership.

[dygaction]

Their argument was that Luka slightly better offensive production, is nullified by the gap in defense, they have SGA as 2nd team all defense.
They are really knowledgeable, know the stats and minor details, but I agree with you, I have Luka ahead also, and I have Giannis a tier below.

It is really not "slightly" better offensive production. SGA has 8 double-doubles this season (3x on rebounds and 5x on assists), while Luka has 20 triple-doubles.

It's interesting to indirectly include rebounds as an offensive stat though

Guards' defensive rebounds are not really valued on defense as people think it is a free collection, but having the ball early to PGs with great court vision and elite passing ability is certainly a huge offensive advantage.

[Bob8]

SGA is 63.8% TS to Luka’s 61.7% (significant difference in efficiency), a much better defender, and has the better team record for the 2nd youngest team in the NBA. That’s the argument.

I’m not going to start talking about the January stats of the 13th best player on the team, though, so don’t expect me to get into your all’s back and forth here.

If difference in TS% is significant, which is btw. only in FTs, what about much bigger differences in all counting stats? They have exactly the same eFg%. You should be rewarded for playing in young and extremely healthy team?

I'm very disappointed that we won't see first round between Mavs and Thunder.

Once they start excluding free throws from the box score we can talk about efficiency without them.

Yes, it's impressive to take a bunch of rookies and sophomores to the top of the conference. Takes a lot of leadership.

I'm sure that those 0.6 FTs that Shai is scoring more is crucial data. You of course don't care about other box score numbers, which are not that close.

[Exp0sed]

MJ wouldn’t average 50 points in todays game…can we please get off these fairy tale scenarios already

I said "avg 50" as a figure of speech to illustrate that i found Bob's comparison irrelevant. No1 would average 50 cuz if ur avging 50 the team must blow many teams out but yes, substanially more than 34 in today's rules, high volume 3 pt shooting,spacing and teams of midgets tryin' to keep MJ out of the paint..good luck with that! In almost 40% usage and 37.5 mpg the sky's the limit

Sent from my SM-A115F using RealGM mobile app

[Bob8]

MJ wouldn’t average 50 points in todays game…can we please get off these fairy tale scenarios already

I said "avg 50" as a figure of speech to illustrate that i found Bob's comparison irrelevant. No1 would average 50 cuz if ur avging 50 the team must blow many teams out but yes, substanially more than 34 in today's rules, high volume 3 pt shooting,spacing and teams of midgets tryin' to keep MJ out of the paint..good luck with that! In almost 40% usage and 37.5 mpg the sky's the limit

Sent from my SM-A115F using RealGM mobile app

First he would have needed to learn shooting for 3.

It's very difficult to score substantially more than 34, if you're not taking substantially more shots than players nowadays do. And players are now playing less minutes than they were in MJ era. MJ has played 40 minutes and had 38.3 USG% in his best scoring season.

[Woodsanity]

Scoring 50 ppg isn't conducive to winning. Like it would be 40 tops if MJ was somehow on a bad team with low talent.

[QPR]

SGA has been seen as Jokic's closest challenger for much of the season. It's not that outlandish to still have him second.

[Bob8]

SGA has been seen as Jokic's closest challenger for much of the season. It's not that outlandish to still have him second.

Sure you can have him second, but we can't deny that Luka was 2x in a row player of the month and Mavs looking unstoppable after getting injured players back and making the trade. Luka being the only reason that totally depleted Mavs stayed alive in first few months. I'm hearing how SGA led the second youngest team, Luka led team with THJ, Green, Williams, DJJ, Powell...to the 8th place, which is miraculous in so strong West.

If team success is the main factor, Tatum should be MVP and first and second team having 7 Celtics players. If Luka is penalised for team success, Tatum should be rewarded for playing for the far the best team. And what about 2022, Suns having 16 wins more than Denver and it didn't help Booker even a little, he finished 4th.

[QPR]

You're not exactly able to discuss this objectively though.

[Cubbies2120]

and Mavs looking unstoppable after getting injured players back and making the trade.

During this stretch, their only win against a team top 7 in EITHER conference was...Denver, which was a high quality win to be fair.

Everything else was against teams ranked 8th or worse in their conference.

[dygaction]

and Mavs looking unstoppable after getting injured players back and making the trade.

During this stretch, their only win against a team top 7 in EITHER conference was...Denver, which was a high quality win to be fair.

Everything else was against teams ranked 8th or worse in their conference.

Did not have time to look them up but pretty sure they beat OKC by 30+ points the first game after the trade.

[dygaction]

3rd time of this season for Luka. Superstar treatment from the league or unfair treatment from the referees?

Read on Twitter

[Bob8]

and Mavs looking unstoppable after getting injured players back and making the trade.

During this stretch, their only win against a team top 7 in EITHER conference was...Denver, which was a high quality win to be fair.

Everything else was against teams ranked 8th or worse in their conference.

Blowing out OKC, who were first then, doesn't count? I believe Suns and Kings were top 6 teams back then too.