Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Horst to Detroit rumor

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Nah, I'm not faulting Horst for re-signing those dudes. What "bad" extensions has he handed out since the Snell contract? Bobby and Pat were great bargain deals. Brook has been one of the most under-paid impact stars in the league throughout his time here. He's brought in starters and rotation guys like Forbes, Beasley, Matthews, and Korver for vet minimums. But the story is, his last 2-years he hasn't found enough of those dudes to offset his inability to draft and develop any young talent.

You can't keep saying in hindsight we should have just cashed out on this core immediately after winning a championship. He banked on a long-term strategy of threading the needle with very little draft capital, and while hey, it still could work out, this season certainly looks like it may be finally catching up to them.

I think it was pretty simple that the position we are in now is because he did the safe things and overpaid on fringe all-stars to keep us a contender and keep Giannis happy when he wasn't locked in. Everything Horst did in the early years were the simple moves...Max out Middleton, trade all your assets for Jrue, figure out the rest later. No long-term vision and anyone sane in 2020 knew our window was small with no draft picks and aging fringe all-stars locked into max contracts. If we don't win in 2021, the Jrue trade would have been 10x than the Dame trade.

Like I agree with 90% of what you said, but we really have had **** draft picks because of the Jrue trade. Not many teams hit on picks in the 20s+.

[paulpressey25]

You can't keep saying in hindsight we should have just cashed out on this core immediately after winning a championship. He banked on a long-term strategy of threading the needle with very little draft capital, and while hey, it still could work out, this season certainly looks like it may be finally catching up to them.

That's MarJon Beauchamp music. We absolutely had to hit on that guy, at least at a Corey Brewer level. We did not.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

You can't keep saying in hindsight we should have just cashed out on this core immediately after winning a championship. He banked on a long-term strategy of threading the needle with very little draft capital, and while hey, it still could work out, this season certainly looks like it may be finally catching up to them.

That's MarJon Beauchamp music. We absolutely had to hit on that guy, at least at a Corey Brewer level. We did not.

Should've picked Christian Braun......


Besides Jovic and Nembhard, who are we lamenting about missing in that draft?
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2205568
Funny thing is the main concern was his 3 point shooting and he is shooting 39% this year from 3 and still sucks.

[BigO]

I can't get on the fire Horst bandwagon. What did people think would happen when they traded all their first round draft picks.

[Ron Swanson]

You can't keep saying in hindsight we should have just cashed out on this core immediately after winning a championship. He banked on a long-term strategy of threading the needle with very little draft capital, and while hey, it still could work out, this season certainly looks like it may be finally catching up to them.

That's MarJon Beauchamp music. We absolutely had to hit on that guy, at least at a Corey Brewer level. We did not.

I mean, look at the picks past Marjon though. If anything they should have shopped that pick for veteran wing help. Remember, this is the offseason where KCP, Jerami Grant, Royce O'Neal, and D'Anthony Melton all got traded for mid-late 1st's....

[jschligs]

I can't get on the fire Horst bandwagon. What did people think would happen when they traded all their first round draft picks.

This is great context. He shipped out most of our first to offload terrible contracts, bring Jrue in, bring Dame in. Most of these moves were well received. It's not that fair to expect him to find starter/replacement level talent in the 25-30 range of picks. Many teams whiff on players that late.

[stillgotgame]

You can't keep saying in hindsight we should have just cashed out on this core immediately after winning a championship. He banked on a long-term strategy of threading the needle with very little draft capital, and while hey, it still could work out, this season certainly looks like it may be finally catching up to them.

That's MarJon Beauchamp music. We absolutely had to hit on that guy, at least at a Corey Brewer level. We did not.

Should've picked Christian Braun......


Besides Jovic and Nembhard, who are we lamenting about missing in that draft?
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2205568
Funny thing is the main concern was his 3 point shooting and he is shooting 39% this year from 3 and still sucks.

Advanced stats say he was 7th on our team in net rating while Griff was coach. Why do you say he sucks, eye test?

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=GP*G*10:MIN*G*10&DateFrom=&DateTo=01/27/2024&DraftPick=&DraftYear=&StarterBench=&TeamID=1610612749&dir=A&sort=NET_RATING

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

That's MarJon Beauchamp music. We absolutely had to hit on that guy, at least at a Corey Brewer level. We did not.

Should've picked Christian Braun......


Besides Jovic and Nembhard, who are we lamenting about missing in that draft?
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2205568
Funny thing is the main concern was his 3 point shooting and he is shooting 39% this year from 3 and still sucks.

Advanced stats say he was 7th on our team in net rating while Griff was coach. Why do you say he sucks, eye test?

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=GP*G*10:MIN*G*10&DateFrom=&DateTo=01/27/2024&DraftPick=&DraftYear=&StarterBench=&TeamID=1610612749&dir=A&sort=NET_RATING

I'll rely on those stats which puts him in Cam/Pat territory? (Not sure you can trust that stat considering all his garbage time minutes)

[James1980]

Nah, I'm not faulting Horst for re-signing those dudes. What "bad" extensions has he handed out since the Snell contract? Bobby and Pat were great bargain deals. Brook has been one of the most under-paid impact stars in the league throughout his time here. He's brought in starters and rotation guys like Forbes, Beasley, Matthews, and Korver for vet minimums. But the story is, his last 2-years he hasn't found enough of those dudes to offset his inability to draft and develop any young talent.

You can't keep saying in hindsight we should have just cashed out on this core immediately after winning a championship. He banked on a long-term strategy of threading the needle with very little draft capital, and while hey, it still could work out, this season certainly looks like it may be finally catching up to them.

Brook and Middleton's deals last summer are "bad deals." How about not many young, good players too?

[stillgotgame]

Should've picked Christian Braun......


Besides Jovic and Nembhard, who are we lamenting about missing in that draft?
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2205568
Funny thing is the main concern was his 3 point shooting and he is shooting 39% this year from 3 and still sucks.

Advanced stats say he was 7th on our team in net rating while Griff was coach. Why do you say he sucks, eye test?

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=GP*G*10:MIN*G*10&DateFrom=&DateTo=01/27/2024&DraftPick=&DraftYear=&StarterBench=&TeamID=1610612749&dir=A&sort=NET_RATING

I'll rely on those stats which puts him in Cam/Pat territory? (Not sure you can trust that stat considering all his garbage time minutes)

I'm not saying he's good, just that I don't know.
I'm curious how people on this board decide young players suck when the coach doesn't play them?
Donte sucked until he got playing time. Tobias sucked until he got playing time.
You have to play young guys to find out.

[Dangun]

The only way to fix this sinking ship is giving the keys to TyTy

[KidA24]

Nah, I'm not faulting Horst for re-signing those dudes. What "bad" extensions has he handed out since the Snell contract? Bobby and Pat were great bargain deals. Brook has been one of the most under-paid impact stars in the league throughout his time here. He's brought in starters and rotation guys like Forbes, Beasley, Matthews, and Korver for vet minimums. But the story is, his last 2-years he hasn't found enough of those dudes to offset his inability to draft and develop any young talent.

You can't keep saying in hindsight we should have just cashed out on this core immediately after winning a championship. He banked on a long-term strategy of threading the needle with very little draft capital, and while hey, it still could work out, this season certainly looks like it may be finally catching up to them.

Brook and Middleton's deals last summer are "bad deals." How about not many young, good players too?

So if the choices are, resign those two or let them walk for nothing and still have no cap space, which do you do?

[emunney]

If you don't have to attach assets to drop a contract, it's not a bad deal. People think Brook and Khris are at that point? I don't think we'd have any trouble moving them.

[James1980]

Nah, I'm not faulting Horst for re-signing those dudes. What "bad" extensions has he handed out since the Snell contract? Bobby and Pat were great bargain deals. Brook has been one of the most under-paid impact stars in the league throughout his time here. He's brought in starters and rotation guys like Forbes, Beasley, Matthews, and Korver for vet minimums. But the story is, his last 2-years he hasn't found enough of those dudes to offset his inability to draft and develop any young talent.

You can't keep saying in hindsight we should have just cashed out on this core immediately after winning a championship. He banked on a long-term strategy of threading the needle with very little draft capital, and while hey, it still could work out, this season certainly looks like it may be finally catching up to them.

Brook and Middleton's deals last summer are "bad deals." How about not many young, good players too?

So if the choices are, resign those two or let them walk for nothing and still have no cap space, which do you do?

I believe there was a sign and trade deal on the table for Brook with Houston that I would have taken. I would have signed Middleton to keep the salary slot.

[Fotis St]

It's also looking like Bud was underrated. He knew the strengths and limitations of his guys and spammed it. We thought he refused to adjust but it turns out he just knew his personnel.

Lets get him back then, enjoy the regural season wins and exit on the 1st round. That sounds so much fun.

[jakecronus8]

It's also looking like Bud was underrated. He knew the strengths and limitations of his guys and spammed it. We thought he refused to adjust but it turns out he just knew his personnel.

Lets get him back then, enjoy the regural season wins and exit on the 1st round. That sounds so much fun.

They got knocked out in the first round one time under Bud when Giannis got hurt and his brother died mid series.

And if you want to throw playoff track records into the mix I’ve got some not so great news for you about Doc..

[midranger]

Somewhat analogous, in 2021, we were healthy and beat the Nets with 2 of their 3 best players injured by the absolute slimmest margin possible while looking pretty terrible for 75% of the series.

If either Kyrie or Harden were a healthy go, we likely lose that series in 5 or 6 and Bud is fired that year.

[TroyD92]

Somewhat analogous, in 2021, we were healthy and beat the Nets with 2 of their 3 best players injured by the absolute slimmest margin possible while looking pretty terrible for 75% of the series.

If either Kyrie or Harden were a healthy go, we likely lose that series in 5 or 6 and Bud is fired that year.

Bud's head was already on the chopping block going into that year too.

[pifhluk23]

Reading everything I can about the injury and it seems gauranteed he's out rest of regular season and possibly a couple first round games. That's if it's a grade 1. Grade 2 he's out the whole first round and into 2nd if we make it.

[JayMKE]

Firing Bud in retrospect is a fireable offense, I don’t care about whatever context you put to it about how Bud was always on the hot seat and that we just had to do something after the first round exit. The same logic dictates that now Horst’s head has to be on the chopping block, firing Bud was bad enough but it was followed by botching every other offseason decision. Budenholzer on its own is bad enough but hiring Griffin then dealing for Dame doing his best Gary Payton impersonation then signing Doc for 4/40 is unforgivable. It’s imperative that Horst isn’t allowed to compound his mistakes further, he can’t be the guy cleaning up his own mess.

Get this loser back sorting mail his 15 minutes are up, I wish we could offer Bud GM/coach/POBA job to return. We need real basketball people running the team. This team is way worse than it has been in 5 years, even the JKidd years I was hopeful, now its clear this team and entire franchise has taken a massive step back. I thought the org was trending the way of San Antonio, we sold the identity and soul of the team and now we’ll suffer consequences for years. This team right now has 1st/2nd round ceiling after 5 straight years of genuine contention, its just straight up not a good team now.

Marjon and AJJ are tremendous disappointments, they simply might just suck but they haven’t developed at all here.