Have we been underrating Luka?

[benhillboy]

My eyes always matched his pedestrian metrics relative to his production. But he certainly has turned a corner the past couple months, he’s appointment viewing every damn night. No shame at all in being the clear #2 player on planet Earth.

[hagredionis]

Mavs would be second in the East. If nuggets finish in 3rd place with maybe 5 more wins is that really enough to give Jokic a 3rd MVP over this guy, when seeding is really the only argument against Luka?

I doubt Denver drop down to 3rd.

Other than WB 1st player to average a triple double for the season and Jokic taking one of the worst supporting casts of all time to 48 wins, pretty much every MVP winner of the last 50 years has been a top 4 seed in their conference.

Luka: 34/9/10/1.5/0.5 with 4 turnovers on 49/38/79 splits (61.7% TS).
Jokic: 26/12/9/1.5/1 with 3 turnovers on 58/35/82 splits (64.6% TS).

Advanced Stats:
PER: 31 - 28 Jokic
TS%: 65 - 62 Jokic
OBPM: 8 - 9 Jokic
DBPM: 4 - 2 Jokic
BPM: 13 - 10 Jokic
ORating: 132 - 123 Jokic
DRating: 110- 114 Jokic
Net Rating: +22 - +9 Jokic
VORP: 10 - 8 Jokic
PIE: 21- 20 Jokic

Jokic leads in PER, TS%, WS, WS/48, OBPM, DBPM, BPM, ORating, DRating, Net Rating, Raptor, VORP, PIE.

All whilst doing it with 6.5% less usage. Doncic has a 36.2% usage rate, 3% higher than anyone in the league.

Jokic is the clear best player in the league and has been for the last 5 years. Luka, Embiid and Giannis are fighting out 2-4 but it's Joker and a gap.

Luka will have a super strong case for winning MVP next year as he has a really really good team around him now that should be a top 4 seed next year.

This year it's Jokic's to lose.

Come on you can't compare the advanced stats of a center to a PG, the center will always be more efficient, that's how basketball works. Luka is having a historical season and should be the MVP.

[Yuri36]

My eyes always matched his pedestrian metrics relative to his production. But he certainly has turned a corner the past couple months, he’s appointment viewing every damn night. No shame at all in being the clear #2 player on planet Earth.

It's not a shame but it will still be a black mark in his legacy when in 10-15 years, we will talk about his legacy and how he compares with the top 10 players of all time and people will consistently remind us that even in what will probably be the best season of his career by a country mile (how can it be better statistically for example?), he will not have won the MVP.

When you enter to that territory of top 10-20 of all time (and that's obviously definitely what Luka should be targetting at the very least), EVERYTHING matters, even the little personal achievement.

Being 5 times straight in the All NBA first team, carrying a trashed team in Conference final and then having this season one of the very best season ever produced by any player....and despite all of that, not even winning once a MVP, of course that it will be a black mark in his career, especially as his competition is not MJ, Kobe or prime LeBron/Curry but Jokic/SGA/Giannis.

[Yuri36]

Mavs would be second in the East. If nuggets finish in 3rd place with maybe 5 more wins is that really enough to give Jokic a 3rd MVP over this guy, when seeding is really the only argument against Luka?

I doubt Denver drop down to 3rd.

Other than WB 1st player to average a triple double for the season and Jokic taking one of the worst supporting casts of all time to 48 wins, pretty much every MVP winner of the last 50 years has been a top 4 seed in their conference.

Luka: 34/9/10/1.5/0.5 with 4 turnovers on 49/38/79 splits (61.7% TS).
Jokic: 26/12/9/1.5/1 with 3 turnovers on 58/35/82 splits (64.6% TS).

Advanced Stats:
PER: 31 - 28 Jokic
TS%: 65 - 62 Jokic
OBPM: 8 - 9 Jokic
DBPM: 4 - 2 Jokic
BPM: 13 - 10 Jokic
ORating: 132 - 123 Jokic
DRating: 110- 114 Jokic
Net Rating: +22 - +9 Jokic
VORP: 10 - 8 Jokic
PIE: 21- 20 Jokic

Jokic leads in PER, TS%, WS, WS/48, OBPM, DBPM, BPM, ORating, DRating, Net Rating, Raptor, VORP, PIE.

All whilst doing it with 6.5% less usage. Doncic has a 36.2% usage rate, 3% higher than anyone in the league.

Jokic is the clear best player in the league and has been for the last 5 years. Luka, Embiid and Giannis are fighting out 2-4 but it's Joker and a gap.

Luka will have a super strong case for winning MVP next year as he has a really really good team around him now that should be a top 4 seed next year.

This year it's Jokic's to lose.

Come on you can't compare the advanced stats of a center to a PG, the center will always be more efficient, that's how basketball works. Luka is having a historical season and should be the MVP.

I'm amazed not more people understand that.....or perhaps they're so biased toward Joker that they refuse to consider that crucial point.

[Oscar9992]

Luka Doncic has the highest PPG + RPG + APG numbers since the NBA/ABA merger!

Read on Twitter

[Oscar9992]

Beats 2016-17 Peak Westbrook total numbers:

33.9 PPG
9.8 APG
9.2 RPG
48.8% FG / 61.6 TS%
38.4% 3PT

[Cubbies2120]

Also has 4 of the top 15 usage % seasons in NBA history

At least he's putting up numbers when he's controlling the ball so much...and more efficiently than Russ did when he had insanely high usage.

[leolozon]

The word “career” makes it confusing. It’s in a season.

The efficiency, considering the usage, is great.

[Oscar9992]

Also has 4 of the top 15 usage % seasons in NBA history

At least he's putting up numbers when he's controlling the ball so much...and more efficiently than Russ did when he had insanely high usage.

Luka's usage rate is 35%, Westbrook's was 41%

[HotRocks34]

Luka has been good on defense this season. This is (so far) his second-best DRAPTOR season behind 2021-22, when he was +0.6 on that metric.

[shi-woo]

No, there is just still a bunch of people in this world that see white/euro and think "bad at basketball" or are just racist and refuse to come to terms with the fact that basketball isn't exactly exclusive to their culture anymore and is more of an inclusive global game now.

Past players, many of them, don't even hide this fact.

I call it the Larry Bird paradox, where a dude is considered the GOAT until 1988, ripped the hearts out of everyones favorite legends, but for some reason would be worse than Spencer Hawes if he played in the modern game to some people

We saw how slow it took people to finally appreciate Jokic. Dude put up essential 19/11/6 on close to 50/40/90 and wasn't even an All-Star People refuse to give Luka that LeBron treatment even though he's had a similar start to his career, just hasn't teamed up with other ATG's yet, and came in as a messiah type of prospect.

Unbiased/nonracist fans know what Luka is, 1 of the 3 players that is going to run his generation, and end up in the Top 15 ATG if he wins a ring. Which he no doubt will.

Hopefully people don't turn him into TJ McConnel though when he retires

[dirkdiggler4177]

Haha, I have to say yes. People always talk about his high usage, but he is the best playmaker in NBA history, meaning creating plays for himself and others. Like last night he made a shot, then he created an open 3-pointer that was missed, then the next play down he created another wide-open 3-pointer.

As soon as they lose people will talk about his usage and compare him to James Harden. The big difference is Harden never shot mid-range shots. Luka got the complete package, so you can't give him anything. And he always does the correct play.



Just look at this play. First, he passes the ball to Kleber who is in a great position to score. He passes the ball to the wing. Luka gets the ball back, but does not shoot because he knows the defender will run at him, goes past two defenders, sees Hardaway and Kleber in both corners, both open, and looks at Kleber to trick the defense, knowing Hardaway is the better shooter so he drags the defense in and Hardaway who is the best shooter of the two gets a wide open shot. Just an incredible player.

https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/04/09/0022301144/229/409045c4-22a7-8cdc-72f0-00ee0a6e2207_1280x720.mp4

[benhillboy]

My eyes always matched his pedestrian metrics relative to his production. But he certainly has turned a corner the past couple months, he’s appointment viewing every damn night. No shame at all in being the clear #2 player on planet Earth.

It's not a shame but it will still be a black mark in his legacy when in 10-15 years, we will talk about his legacy and how he compares with the top 10 players of all time and people will consistently remind us that even in what will probably be the best season of his career by a country mile (how can it be better statistically for example?), he will not have won the MVP.

When you enter to that territory of top 10-20 of all time (and that's obviously definitely what Luka should be targetting at the very least), EVERYTHING matters, even the little personal achievement.

Being 5 times straight in the All NBA first team, carrying a trashed team in Conference final and then having this season one of the very best season ever produced by any player....and despite all of that, not even winning once a MVP, of course that it will be a black mark in his career, especially as his competition is not MJ, Kobe or prime LeBron/Curry but Jokic/SGA/Giannis.

Jokic is a whole different animal. There’s simply no counter for his IQ.
Tonight is a big night statistically for Luka. He qualifies for BB References Hall of Fame probability predictor with his 400th game. I think arguably that’s the ultimate prize for an individual player, granted it has/ will be will be quite tainted by the time he’s elected.

[Ambrose]

He's been rated like he and his season deserve to be rated. Do you think it's some travesty that he'll be 2nd in the MVP race?

Not an absolute travesty if he finishes 2nd but still not so fair....but what's really been a travesty is how far behind the likes of Joker (even now, just look at this board MVP current poll results ) and SGA people usually putted him in that MVP race.

Because he’s the same luka, he didn’t elevate his teammates the mavs got better teammates for him, no knock on him, but they’re winning games without luka now, n kyrie has entered the best guard of all time discussions again not to mention the dumpfires pj and gafford came from

With Luka: 45-24
Without Luka: 4-6

[losmi]

Mavs would be second in the East. If nuggets finish in 3rd place with maybe 5 more wins is that really enough to give Jokic a 3rd MVP over this guy, when seeding is really the only argument against Luka?

No, seeding is not an argument against Luka. The argument is that Jokic has had statistically better season and 8 wins more. There's actually no argument for Luka over Jokic other than some made up nonsense from social media.

[ArksNetsSince99]

I don't think "we" as in realgm has been underrating Luka. It's pretty much a consensus here that he's at least a top 5 player. The national media on the otherhand, absolutely is. Heck we have had some major network voters not even vote him in for ANY of the All NBA teams last year. Not even 3rd team all NBA. Speaks volumes.

I just think US casuals and media don't get as excited about foreign imports. If Luka was born and bred American he'd be WAY more hyped up. It is what it is.

Real hoops fans appreciate his game though.

If Luka was born and bred American Luka wouldn’t be Luka

[Yuri36]

Luka Doncic has the highest PPG + RPG + APG numbers since the NBA/ABA merger!

Read on Twitter

And yet he probably won't be the MVP.....I still can't believe it, especially as numbers only tell a part of the story.

[Jadoogar]

I think a lot of people are just waiting for him to do a bit more in the postseason. I've been high on him since before he came into the league relative to most people but you can't crown him the best player without him doing more in the postseason or even 2nd best since Giannis is a way better defender with a fmvp and 2mvps under his belt. Personally I think he's a bit better than Embiid. People are also skeptical of him being an uber helio and whether that is a real recipe for success but MJ had the same criticism until he won rings.

he's made the conference finals, he's already had more playoff success than Embiid.

[Petergrifindor]

Mavs would be second in the East. If nuggets finish in 3rd place with maybe 5 more wins is that really enough to give Jokic a 3rd MVP over this guy, when seeding is really the only argument against Luka?

No, seeding is not an argument against Luka. The argument is that Jokic has had statistically better season and 8 wins more. There's actually no argument for Luka over Jokic other than some made up nonsense from social media.

It’s funny how people just choose to ignore 8 points and 1 assist per game difference in favor of the advanced stats. Just because they are so “advanced”.

8 points difference it’s HUGE at the level these two are playing.

[Petergrifindor]

MVP