Have we been underrating Luka?

[Yuri36]

I think a lot of people are just waiting for him to do a bit more in the postseason. I've been high on him since before he came into the league relative to most people but you can't crown him the best player without him doing more in the postseason or even 2nd best since Giannis is a way better defender with a fmvp and 2mvps under his belt. Personally I think he's a bit better than Embiid. People are also skeptical of him being an uber helio and whether that is a real recipe for success but MJ had the same criticism until he won rings.

he's made the conference finals, he's already had more playoff success than Embiid.

And let's not talk about that legendary game on almost 1 foot having a 40 pts triple double throwing a buzzer beater against a stacked Clippers team.

[fansse]

Yes!

He’s like LeBron.. has the special ability to carry a **** roster to the playoffs on a deep run. You take out Luka from the current Mavs, it’s a lottery team

[Woodsanity]

Most people rank him 2nd as MVP and he would have a decent chance at first if he had more wins.

Who is underrating him?

[Michael Jackson]

Hopefully at some point he will be recognized as an above average player.

Is he though? The Burbs taught me to say NO to any slavics.

[Archx]

Because he’s the same luka, he didn’t elevate his teammates the mavs got better teammates for him, no knock on him, but they’re winning games without luka now, n kyrie has entered the best guard of all time discussions again not to mention the dumpfires pj and gafford came from

How are DFS, Dinwiddie, Wood, Bullock, Pinson, etc.. doing these days?

Also..

Read on Twitter

[dirkdiggler4177]

Also has 4 of the top 15 usage % seasons in NBA history

At least he's putting up numbers when he's controlling the ball so much...and more efficiently than Russ did when he had insanely high usage.

It's funny to look at because he controls the ball 0.6 seconds more than Brunson per possession, but nobody rags about Jalen having the ball too much or any of the other guards. Luka is just much more efficient than any of the other guards, but that results in high usage which is bad...? But isn't holding the ball worse?

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches?CF=MIN*G*30&Season=2022-23&dir=D&sort=TIME_OF_POSS

[Yuri36]

Most people rank him 2nd as MVP and he would have a decent chance at first if he had more wins.

Who is underrating him?

All is relative.
If i say for example that MJ is one of the top 5 players ever but not necessarly the best, how would you react?
In itself, that would of course still be an awesome praise to 99.99% of the players in history but cause it's MJ, you well know it would be considering as underrating him and quite rightly so.

I feel that's what is happening to Luka and not the least in the current season.

[zzzyyxyyxzzz]

No, seeding is not an argument against Luka. The argument is that Jokic has had statistically better season and 8 wins more. There's actually no argument for Luka over Jokic other than some made up nonsense from social media.

Wow, just wow. If seeding isn't an argument, then Luka should be the MVP. And I'm not even going to give my thoughts as to why (just look at what MVP stands for - definitely not most efficient or best advanced metrics...), because I assume you'll say I got it off social media.

Nikola is the best player in the world today. It doesn't make him the 2023-24 NBA MVP (although he'll get the award).

Can't wait for next year when Luka will be denied because his stats will be down across the board, regardless of seeding.

[Yuri36]

No, seeding is not an argument against Luka. The argument is that Jokic has had statistically better season and 8 wins more. There's actually no argument for Luka over Jokic other than some made up nonsense from social media.

Wow, just wow. If seeding isn't an argument, then Luka should be the MVP. And I'm not even going to give my thoughts as to why (just look at what MVP stands for - definitely not most efficient or best advanced metrics...), because I assume you'll say I got it off social media.

Nikola is the best player in the world today. It doesn't make him the 2023-24 NBA MVP (although he'll get the award).

Can't wait for next year when Luka will be denied because his stats will be down across the board, regardless of seeding.

....or expect also claims like "Kyrie is the real MVP of that team, Luka is his robin,etc..."

[deneem4]

Because he’s the same luka, he didn’t elevate his teammates the mavs got better teammates for him, no knock on him, but they’re winning games without luka now, n kyrie has entered the best guard of all time discussions again not to mention the dumpfires pj and gafford came from

How are DFS, Dinwiddie, Wood, Bullock, Pinson, etc.. doing these days?

Also..

Read on Twitter

How’s Brunson and porzingis doing these days?

And gafford was doin the same pretty much as a wizard maybe missed 2 shots

[Yuri36]

Because he’s the same luka, he didn’t elevate his teammates the mavs got better teammates for him, no knock on him, but they’re winning games without luka now, n kyrie has entered the best guard of all time discussions again not to mention the dumpfires pj and gafford came from

How are DFS, Dinwiddie, Wood, Bullock, Pinson, etc.. doing these days?

Also..

Read on Twitter

How’s Brunson and porzingis doing these days?

And gafford was doin the same pretty much as a wizard maybe missed 2 shots

Fair enough for Brunson of course but Porzingis is doing as well as he's done with the Mavs at the HUGE difference he is clearly not as injured prone with the Celtics as he's been with the Mavs.

It's funny btw to see many people almost blaming Luka for the failure of his duo with KP and forgetting that the main factor by far to explain KP's relative failure in Dallas was mostly his numerous injuries

[Cavsfansince84]

he's made the conference finals, he's already had more playoff success than Embiid.

I'm well aware of all that. One wcf isn't in itself a lot though. Trae has also made an ecf and Butler has made 2 finals. I'm also well aware of Embiid's playoff failures. It doesn't really matter whether Luka is seen as consensus top 3 or top 5 on here. Sometimes people get hung up on other people's opinions too much.

[deneem4]

How are DFS, Dinwiddie, Wood, Bullock, Pinson, etc.. doing these days?

Also..

Read on Twitter

How’s Brunson and porzingis doing these days?

And gafford was doin the same pretty much as a wizard maybe missed 2 shots

Fair enough for Brunson of course but Porzingis is doing as well as he's done with the Mavs at the HUGE difference he is clearly not as injured prone with the Celtics as he's been with the Mavs.

It's funny btw to see many people almost blaming Luka for the failure of his duo with KP and forgetting that the main factor by far to explain KP's relative failure in Dallas was mostly his numerous injuries

No one’s blaming luka except the poster who listed his former teammates

[Archx]

Because he’s the same luka, he didn’t elevate his teammates the mavs got better teammates for him, no knock on him, but they’re winning games without luka now, n kyrie has entered the best guard of all time discussions again not to mention the dumpfires pj and gafford came from

How are DFS, Dinwiddie, Wood, Bullock, Pinson, etc.. doing these days?

Also..

Read on Twitter

How’s Brunson and porzingis doing these days?

And gafford was doin the same pretty much as a wizard maybe missed 2 shots

You brought up 2 guys. One was constantly injured but when he played, he was great. And the other one Cuban let go for nothing when he started to become the player he is today.

All in all, both were doing fine with Doncic until they were traded or front office didn't resign at the right time. And i didn't know Gafford had 16-1 runs or was almost close to breaking Wilt's record with his previous teams. Interesting.

Again, where is the proof that he doesn't make his teammates better?

[deneem4]

How are DFS, Dinwiddie, Wood, Bullock, Pinson, etc.. doing these days?

Also..

Read on Twitter

How’s Brunson and porzingis doing these days?

And gafford was doin the same pretty much as a wizard maybe missed 2 shots

You brought up 2 guys. One was constantly injured but when he played, he was great. And the other one Cuban let go for nothing when he started to become the player he is today.

All in all, both were doing fine with Doncic until they were traded or front office didn't resign at the right time. And i didn't know Gafford had 16-1 runs or was almost close to breaking Wilt's record with his previous teams. Interesting.

Again, where is the proof that he doesn't make his teammates better?

Yes gafford has always been ultra efficient which is why wiz fans was mad we didn’t get enough back for him

Are you saying he’s made kyrie better?
Pj been playing the same as he was a hornet
Exum is exum
They are better than they were last year obviously , but what about the years before with the bad players you named, record still the same as now? Or marginally better?

[hagredionis]

Mavs would be second in the East. If nuggets finish in 3rd place with maybe 5 more wins is that really enough to give Jokic a 3rd MVP over this guy, when seeding is really the only argument against Luka?

No, seeding is not an argument against Luka. The argument is that Jokic has had statistically better season and 8 wins more. There's actually no argument for Luka over Jokic other than some made up nonsense from social media.

There absolutely is an argument for Luka, the Mavs had a terrible luck with injuries this season with Kyrie, Lively, J.Green, Exum and Kleber all missing many games. That's 3 starters btw. That Luka managed to keep the team above .500 during those injuries is nothing short of incredible considering how competitive the Western Conference is this season. The 8 wins more is simply the results of the Mavs struggling with the injuries and can't be used as argument to have Jokic over Luka.

[Archx]

How’s Brunson and porzingis doing these days?

And gafford was doin the same pretty much as a wizard maybe missed 2 shots

You brought up 2 guys. One was constantly injured but when he played, he was great. And the other one Cuban let go for nothing when he started to become the player he is today.

All in all, both were doing fine with Doncic until they were traded or front office didn't resign at the right time. And i didn't know Gafford had 16-1 runs or was almost close to breaking Wilt's record with his previous teams. Interesting.

Again, where is the proof that he doesn't make his teammates better?

Yes gafford has always been ultra efficient which is why wiz fans was mad we didn’t get enough back for him

Are you saying he’s made kyrie better?
Pj been playing the same as he was a hornet
Exum is exum
They are better than they were last year obviously , but what about the years before with the bad players you named, record still the same as now? Or marginally better?

"Exum is Exum.." He was Exum in Serbia last year, probably no one expected him to even sniff NBA again.

So i have to apologize because i don't know if you're asking a serious question or you just want to start a riot with Mavs community

Otherwise my response and explanation would be 2 pages long dating all the way back to 2018 probably. So i'll just say you have your own opinion, it's fine, but Mavs fans and (luckily) a lot of other fans, know better.

[Drakeem]

My eyes always matched his pedestrian metrics relative to his production. But he certainly has turned a corner the past couple months, he’s appointment viewing every damn night. No shame at all in being the clear #2 player on planet Earth.

It's not a shame but it will still be a black mark in his legacy when in 10-15 years, we will talk about his legacy and how he compares with the top 10 players of all time and people will consistently remind us that even in what will probably be the best season of his career by a country mile (how can it be better statistically for example?), he will not have won the MVP.

When you enter to that territory of top 10-20 of all time (and that's obviously definitely what Luka should be targetting at the very least), EVERYTHING matters, even the little personal achievement.

Being 5 times straight in the All NBA first team, carrying a trashed team in Conference final and then having this season one of the very best season ever produced by any player....and despite all of that, not even winning once a MVP, of course that it will be a black mark in his career, especially as his competition is not MJ, Kobe or prime LeBron/Curry but Jokic/SGA/Giannis.

Will it? I swear, the MVP is probably the least valuable award whenever these ATG debates come about. You have guys like Kobe or Shaq who are consistently propelled to a top 10, sometimes even top 5 convo. Nash has 2 MVPs and will never get brought up in any sort of top 20-25 discussion. Even in the Bron vs Jordan debates, the MVP count doesn't really get brought up unless we're comparing ALL accolades directly.

There is something to it. People like Bird/Magic/Bron/Jordan having more does put them in a certain prestige, but it's surprisingly less of a talking point than you would think it is considering it's quite literally the best player of the season award.

[Johnny Firpo]

Yes gafford has always been ultra efficient which is why wiz fans was mad we didn’t get enough back for him

Are you saying he’s made kyrie better?
Pj been playing the same as he was a hornet
Exum is exum
They are better than they were last year obviously , but what about the years before with the bad players you named, record still the same as now? Or marginally better?

Luka has already won 53 games in the WCF year with a clearly worse roster than his current one. Also, it's pretty clear that out of all the other top 10 players in the last three-four years, he had the the worst rosters around him. I mean, if not him, then who? I'm not even sure about this current roster to be honest, and will have to see if they crap the bed. I have a feeling that Luka won't, based on his previous playoff appearances.

[deneem4]

Yes gafford has always been ultra efficient which is why wiz fans was mad we didn’t get enough back for him

Are you saying he’s made kyrie better?
Pj been playing the same as he was a hornet
Exum is exum
They are better than they were last year obviously , but what about the years before with the bad players you named, record still the same as now? Or marginally better?

Luka has already won 53 games in the WCF year with a clearly worse roster than his current one. Also, it's pretty clear that out of all the other top 10 players in the last three-four years, he had the the worst rosters around him. I mean, if not him, then who? I'm not even sure about this current roster to be honest, and will have to see if they crap the bad. I have a feeling that Luka won't, based on his previous playoff appearances.

So why should he get mvp this year when he won more games 2 years ago with a worse roster?