[Krawczynski] Alex Rodriguez and Marc Lore in serious talks to become the next owners of the Minnesota Timberwolves

[shrink]

Taylor’s track record:

-Cost us 5 draft picks due to a fraudulent contract that he put in writing (dumb and unethical) dumb - 3 picks
-Routinely sold picks for cash instead of developing the team with them (greedy) you forget the hundreds of millions he’s paid
-Betrayed KG when he said he was dogging it (awful, awful judgement there) dumb
-Hired David Kahn, who was a disaster (just a crazy move to hire a sports reporter as GM). Dumb

I could go on. Taylor is one of the worst owners in sports. That’s the consensus. Don’t blame us. Blame Taylor.

I agree he is one of the worst owners in sports, based on the evidence of team record. But none of these are unethical or snake-like. They are dumb. Also agree he’s “one of the worst” but not the worst (Clay Bennett, Donald Sterling, Dan Snyder)

And while like many of us, KG is our favorite player, I am not going to simply accept his word for things. I want to decide for myself, and see the evidence. And even if I did let others decide, KG is not the guy I’d base my opinion of others on. I love his passion, but Garnett isn’t the brightest bulb in the world (was struggling to qualify for college), particularly in business (has lost millions with bad investments and bad friends). Moreover, we love that Garnett is incredibly loyal to some people (Flip, MIN), but get on his bad side and you’re on his enemy list. Have you seen what he’s said about (Sportsmanship Award winner) Ray Allen? And finally, if other people’s opinions of Taylor influence you, wouldn’t you trust Flip more? Flip Saunders LOVED Taylor. Do you only accept opinions that agree with yours?

[thinktank]

Taylor’s track record:

-Cost us 5 draft picks due to a fraudulent contract that he put in writing (dumb and unethical)
-Routinely sold picks for cash instead of developing the team with them (greedy—Taylor was one of the richest owners in the league)
-Betrayed KG when he said he was dogging it (awful, awful judgement there)
-Hired David Kahn, who was a disaster (just a crazy move to hire a sports reporter as GM)

I could go on. Taylor is one of the worst owners in sports. That’s the consensus. Don’t blame us. Blame Taylor.

None of these are unethical or snake-like. They are dumb.

And while like many of us, KG is our favorite player, I am not going to simply accept his word for things. I want to decide for myself, and see the evidence. And even if I did let others decide, KG is not the guy I’d base my opinion of others on. I love his passion, but Garnett isn’t the brightest bulb in the world (was struggling to qualify for college), particularly in business (has lost millions with bad investments and bad friends). Moreover, we love that Garnett is incredibly loyal to some people (Flip, MIN), but get on his bad side and you’re on his enemy list. Have you seen what he’s said about (Sportsmanship Award winner) Ray Allen? And finally, if other people’s opinions of Taylor influence you, wouldn’t you trust Flip more? Flip Saunders LOVED Taylor.

I know exactly how you feel.

I disagree with you, but I understand your perspective.

It feels like you choose not to acknowledge my perspective and I’ll leave it at that (because you keep quoting me and taking a contrary opinion).

I’ve moving on from this debate with you, is what I’m saying.

I’m still going to state my perspective—just not engaging you (because it doesn’t go anywhere new, and I don’t feel understood).

Ok.

[Klomp]

Weird guest and thinktank +1’d this. This didn’t happen, and they should know that. Maybe at this point, they’ll +1 anything negative, like “Taylor is a snake because he shot Abe Lincoln!”

Taylor didn’t go back on the Joe Smith deal. The opposite. He wrote the deal into a contract that was illegal. With an actual contract in hand, the NBA had to punish. That doesn’t make him a snake, that makes him (or more correctly, McHale) stupid.

This Joe Smith deal doesn’t make him a snake, but perhaps some other deal does.

So you're pleading not guilty by stupidity for the Joe Smith situation? You think he didn't know that what he was doing was illegal until the punishment was handed down? Because otherwise, drafting a contract that goes against league rules is absolutely snake-like.

[shrink]

Weird guest and thinktank +1’d this. This didn’t happen, and they should know that. Maybe at this point, they’ll +1 anything negative, like “Taylor is a snake because he shot Abe Lincoln!”

Taylor didn’t go back on the Joe Smith deal. The opposite. He wrote the deal into a contract that was illegal. With an actual contract in hand, the NBA had to punish. That doesn’t make him a snake, that makes him (or more correctly, McHale) stupid.

This Joe Smith deal doesn’t make him a snake, but perhaps some other deal does.

So you're pleading not guilty by stupidity for the Joe Smith situation? You think he didn't know that what he was doing was illegal until the punishment was handed down? Because otherwise, drafting a contract that goes against league rules is absolutely snake-like.

Of course. If he knew it was illegal, why would he put it in a contract where the NBA could see it? Why not do the wink wink deal other GMs do? It’s dumb. And if he didn’t realize it, it’s still dumb and his responsibility since he hired a GM that didn’t realize it.

Listening to you and thinktank and others, I think that the bulk of this disagreement is simply the basic contention. The statement was that Taylor was “snakelike,” which I assume means unethical. Most of the arguments I hear though are that he is a bad owner, but I think when I refute ethics, I think people are hearing that I am saying he is a good owner. I do not believe he is a good owner. I just don’t think he is an unethical owner.

The reason this distinction matters is because of the topic of this thread. This thread has nothing to do with “Taylor hired David Kahn.” This thread is about Taylor’s credibility vs Lore’s in regard to this contract.

[shrink]

And…
I’ve been thinking about this….
It’s been said Lore and Arod were spending Glens money…
But….

What if Glen was preying on “poor” candidates for ownership, knowing they would struggle to actually complete the deal, all the while getting millions of their dollars to spend on the team.

Lore and Arod didn’t spend Glens money.
Glen was spending Lore and Arods money.

What if …

That’s either mad scientist genius level business maneuvering or shrewd slimy as snake operations. (snakes aren’t slimy btw)

Either way, we can find a silver lining, Glen has all the money he needs now to keep a competitive team and pay the Lux tax (not that he didn’t before)

Well, Taylor still gave up 40% of the equity in the team at an under-market valuation.

But if we want to think he’s a diabolical Mr.Burns, there’s this:

Remember the Meyer Orbach case that Taylor won? Orbach said his contract stated he should be at the front of the line when selling shares in 2021 when the team was sold to a new owner. Taylor said he would have to wait three years until the new owners WERE the new owners. Part of the reason the judge ruled in Taylor’s favor in 2031 was because of “the chance that Lore and ARod couldn’t complete the deal,” and the Wolves wouldn’t have new owners! And here we are.

This ruling doesn’t make Lore and ARod look better-funded, even in 2021, but if your theory that Taylor specifically looked for poor owners was right, yeah, that’s a “mad scientist genius business maneuver.” I think Taylor is too dumb for that.

[thinktank]

Why not both dumb and snake?

It’s both, imo.

He’s had a previous contract issue (ethical).

He’s made stupid moves.

Occam’s Razor.

[KGdaBom]

Weird guest and thinktank +1’d this. This didn’t happen, and they should know that. Maybe at this point, they’ll +1 anything negative, like “Taylor is a snake because he shot Abe Lincoln!”

Taylor didn’t go back on the Joe Smith deal. The opposite. He wrote the deal into a contract that was illegal. With an actual contract in hand, the NBA had to punish. That doesn’t make him a snake, that makes him (or more correctly, McHale) stupid.

This Joe Smith deal doesn’t make him a snake, but perhaps some other deal does.

So you're pleading not guilty by stupidity for the Joe Smith situation? You think he didn't know that what he was doing was illegal until the punishment was handed down? Because otherwise, drafting a contract that goes against league rules is absolutely snake-like.

You have a low threshold for snakelike. That's pretty mild.

[thinktank]

Taylor cheated and it warranted the largest punishment in league history. Snake means someone who is deceitful. Taylor deceived the league. How does snake not fit?

Sterling would be the only other bigger owner snake.

[KGdaBom]

Taylor cheated and it warranted the largest punishment in league history. Snake means someone who is deceitful. Taylor deceived the league. How does snake not fit?

Sterling would be the only other bigger owner snake.

OMG. What McHale did with Taylor didn't warrant much more than a slap on the wrist. The only reason the punishment was so big was Taylor didn't get down on his knees and say yes boss and beg forgiveness to Stern. That's what made Stern get all pissed off and make the penalty so big. They rescinded 40% of the penalty because they knew it was BS. Snake does not fit at all. Wasn't this 25 years ago or so. You really want to hang your hat on this? Have fun.

[thinktank]

Obviously, you’re in the minority on this one. It’s not “fun”. It’s objectively what happened. That deceit by Taylor may have cost us KG. Taylor isn’t someone most of us trust. Go ahead and trust him. It’s your choice. As you say, have fun.

[KGdaBom]

Obviously, you’re in the minority on this one. It’s not “fun”. It’s objectively what happened. That deceit by Taylor may have cost us KG. Taylor isn’t someone most of us trust. Go ahead and trust him. It’s your choice. As you say, have fun.

Have you ever done anything deceitful in your life? Are you snakelike? Has Lore ever done anything deceitful in his life? Is he snakelike? Has A Rod ever done anything deceitful in his life? Is he snakelike. If you want to call Taylor snakelike for the Joe Smith fiasco than you need to take a look at yourself, Lore and A Rod to see how snakelike applies. I can already tell you as much as I try to be 100% honest I have done a few deceitful things in my life. I guess that means I'm snakelike by your standards. I'm more forgiving of myself and others.
This is a good chance to share a song that I've been obsessing over this Easter season. He Still Love Me by Beyonce and others from the movie The Fighting Temptations. Written by Minnesota's own Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis.

Watch on YouTube

[Klomp]

"The fact is, we gave this a lot more thought than the parties in the Minnesota franchise who risked their future by engaging in one of the most far-reaching frauds we've seen," Stern said. "This was a fraud of major proportions. There were no fewer than five undisclosed contracts tucked away, hoping they'd never see the light of day. This is fraud that ripped to the heart of the (collective bargaining) compact. The magnitude of this stuff is shocking."

https://www.espn.com/nba/news/2000/1025/837930.html

[KGdaBom]

"The fact is, we gave this a lot more thought than the parties in the Minnesota franchise who risked their future by engaging in one of the most far-reaching frauds we've seen," Stern said. "This was a fraud of major proportions. There were no fewer than five undisclosed contracts tucked away, hoping they'd never see the light of day. This is fraud that ripped to the heart of the (collective bargaining) compact. The magnitude of this stuff is shocking."

https://www.espn.com/nba/news/2000/1025/837930.html

yes Stern got indignant. Stern is also kind of a prick, but thanks to him and Glen the Wolves are in Minnesota.

[jpatrick]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=XQD5PNDwat0WI1cFRdOyRQ

[Klomp]

Glen's timing is impeccable.

And by impeccable, I mean ****.

[Klomp]

But to the actual point, I think we always knew there was a chance that Minnesota could try to avoid the luxury tax next year, no matter who the owner is. Heck, Glen revealing this doesn't even guarantee that he will be willing to go into the luxury tax if he stays majority owner.

[KGdaBom]

Obviously, you’re in the minority on this one. It’s not “fun”. It’s objectively what happened. That deceit by Taylor may have cost us KG. Taylor isn’t someone most of us trust. Go ahead and trust him. It’s your choice. As you say, have fun.

Have you ever done anything deceitful in your life? Are you snakelike? Has Lore ever done anything deceitful in his life? Is he snakelike? Has A Rod ever done anything deceitful in his life? Is he snakelike. If you want to call Taylor snakelike for the Joe Smith fiasco than you need to take a look at yourself, Lore and A Rod to see how snakelike applies. I can already tell you as much as I try to be 100% honest I have done a few deceitful things in my life. I guess that means I'm snakelike by your standards. I'm more forgiving of myself and others.
This is a good chance to share a song that I've been obsessing over this Easter season. He Still Loves Me by Beyonce and others from the movie The Fighting Temptations. Written by Minnesota's own Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis.

Watch on YouTube

ThinkTank or anybody else. I'm still waiting for a reply to this post.

[jpatrick]

But to the actual point, I think we always knew there was a chance that Minnesota could try to avoid the luxury tax next year, no matter who the owner is. Heck, Glen revealing this doesn't even guarantee that he will be willing to go into the luxury tax if he stays majority owner.

Timing is ****. But to your second point, yes, even with Taylor who knows how much luxury tax he’d be willing to swallow. $75-100m extra is a lot even for rich guys. But I always thought chances were much more likely we’d payroll dump with guys struggling to even come up with funds to purchase the team.

With the ownership situation likely to still be in limbo, I wonder if a court or arbitrator will have to step in and decide if we can up our operating costs by that much this offseason unless both potential owners sign off on it.

[winforlose]

Read on Twitter

FUC**************************

[Klomp]

Hilarious part of the Woj tweet: "would've lowered team's payroll to $171M"

This year's payroll is $164M, so that wouldn't actually be lowering it at all. This isn't a cap-slashing like the Twins did this winter.