Have we been underrating Luka?

[dygaction]

He was doing the same thing now he has a better team and he’s doing the same thing that’s the point Daniel gafford is still the same Daniel gafford it’s not a big change in efficiency for a center to go from .73 to .77 while playing with hof guys vs Beal and kuzma

He's not doing the same thing. The difference in efficiency is big. The fact that you don't understand that is the problem.

Please help me understand this dramatic difference in gafford game while playing less minutes with a better team

You are welcome and let us know if you don't know any of the meanings. The difference is a starter on a bad team to a starter on a strong team with all-star level impact across board.

Gafford
Total Career: 20.7 PER, 72TS%, 15.6TRB%, 7.4AST%, 6.6BLK%, 13.1TOV%, .191WS/48, 1.5BPM
2024 as WAS: 19.8EPR, 71TS%, 17.6TRB%, 8.0AST%, 6.6 BLK%, 11.7TOV%, .172WS/48, 0.9BPM
2023 as DAL: 25.1PER, 76TS%, 19.4TRB%, 10.7AST%, 7.8BLK%, 11.1TOV%, .255WS/48, 5.8BPM

AD this season: 25.7PER, 62TS%, 21.5TRB%, 15.4AST%, 5.8BLK%, 9.4TOV%, .199WS/48, 5.1BPM

[shi-woo]

No, there is just still a bunch of people in this world that see white/euro and think "bad at basketball" or are just racist and refuse to come to terms with the fact that basketball isn't exactly exclusive to their culture anymore and is more of an inclusive global game now.

Past players, many of them, don't even hide this fact.

I call it the Larry Bird paradox, where a dude is considered the GOAT until 1988, ripped the hearts out of everyones favorite legends, but for some reason would be worse than Spencer Hawes if he played in the modern game to some people

We saw how slow it took people to finally appreciate Jokic. Dude put up essential 19/11/6 on close to 50/40/90 and wasn't even an All-Star People refuse to give Luka that LeBron treatment even though he's had a similar start to his career, just hasn't teamed up with other ATG's yet, and came in as a messiah type of prospect.

Unbiased/nonracist fans know what Luka is, 1 of the 3 players that is going to run his generation, and end up in the Top 15 ATG if he wins a ring. Which he no doubt will.

Hopefully people don't turn him into TJ McConnel though when he retires

yeah this isn't it. Not sure why you think poor white people never get their flowers, but let's not.

People realize Bird is an all-time great. People realize Luka is great. Even though they are white....

But this level of victimhood based on race? no, please no.

I feel you, but it's 2024 and everyone has a podcast now and a platform, and it's not like people bringing up Luka being white or being liked because he's white is me making stuff up. A quick goole search should do the trick for you. You're a MOD, you see the same threads I've seen over the years. This is a thing whether we like it or not

The amount of quotes about Bird and Dirk from NBA players saying that if they were black they would just be another player is quite lengthy.

Remember when Montrez called him a white boy We had to listen to that for months. It's not like I just pulled that rabbit out of a hat

A lot of this though I guess is perception. Me hearing "He' good for a white boy" is undervaluing Luka, while people who prefer to stereotype might hear that and think it's okay, I view it as a way of reclassifying his game.

You might not like that I point it out, but you can't deny that this is a part of NBA culture even if we have gotten better with it (because of guys like Luka and Jokic)

[deneem4]

He's not doing the same thing. The difference in efficiency is big. The fact that you don't understand that is the problem.

Please help me understand this dramatic difference in gafford game while playing less minutes with a better team

You are welcome and let us know if you don't know any of the meanings. The difference is a starter on a bad team to a starter on a strong team with all-star level impact across board.

Gafford
Total Career: 20.7 PER, 72TS%, 15.6TRB%, 7.4AST%, 6.6BLK%, 13.1TOV%, .191WS/48, 1.5BPM
2024 as WAS: 19.8EPR, 71TS%, 17.6TRB%, 8.0AST%, 6.6 BLK%, 11.7TOV%, .172WS/48, 0.9BPM
2023 as DAL: 25.1PER, 76TS%, 19.4TRB%, 10.7AST%, 7.8BLK%, 11.1TOV%, .255WS/48, 5.8BPM

AD this season: 25.7PER, 62TS%, 21.5TRB%, 15.4AST%, 5.8BLK%, 9.4TOV%, .199WS/48, 5.1BPM

Don’t complain about him in the future
He as good as as now mavs fans

[dygaction]

Please help me understand this dramatic difference in gafford game while playing less minutes with a better team

You are welcome and let us know if you don't know any of the meanings. The difference is a starter on a bad team to a starter on a strong team with all-star level impact across board.

Gafford
Total Career: 20.7 PER, 72TS%, 15.6TRB%, 7.4AST%, 6.6BLK%, 13.1TOV%, .191WS/48, 1.5BPM
2024 as WAS: 19.8EPR, 71TS%, 17.6TRB%, 8.0AST%, 6.6 BLK%, 11.7TOV%, .172WS/48, 0.9BPM
2023 as DAL: 25.1PER, 76TS%, 19.4TRB%, 10.7AST%, 7.8BLK%, 11.1TOV%, .255WS/48, 5.8BPM

AD this season: 25.7PER, 62TS%, 21.5TRB%, 15.4AST%, 5.8BLK%, 9.4TOV%, .199WS/48, 5.1BPM

Don’t complain about him in the future
He as good as as now mavs fans

He might be and that's a different topic, but hope your previous question is answered.

[deneem4]

You are welcome and let us know if you don't know any of the meanings. The difference is a starter on a bad team to a starter on a strong team with all-star level impact across board.

Gafford
Total Career: 20.7 PER, 72TS%, 15.6TRB%, 7.4AST%, 6.6BLK%, 13.1TOV%, .191WS/48, 1.5BPM
2024 as WAS: 19.8EPR, 71TS%, 17.6TRB%, 8.0AST%, 6.6 BLK%, 11.7TOV%, .172WS/48, 0.9BPM
2023 as DAL: 25.1PER, 76TS%, 19.4TRB%, 10.7AST%, 7.8BLK%, 11.1TOV%, .255WS/48, 5.8BPM

AD this season: 25.7PER, 62TS%, 21.5TRB%, 15.4AST%, 5.8BLK%, 9.4TOV%, .199WS/48, 5.1BPM

Don’t complain about him in the future
He as good as as now mavs fans

He might be and that's a different topic, but hope your previous question is answered.

Edit* I meant ad

[deneem4]

No, there is just still a bunch of people in this world that see white/euro and think "bad at basketball" or are just racist and refuse to come to terms with the fact that basketball isn't exactly exclusive to their culture anymore and is more of an inclusive global game now.

Past players, many of them, don't even hide this fact.

I call it the Larry Bird paradox, where a dude is considered the GOAT until 1988, ripped the hearts out of everyones favorite legends, but for some reason would be worse than Spencer Hawes if he played in the modern game to some people

We saw how slow it took people to finally appreciate Jokic. Dude put up essential 19/11/6 on close to 50/40/90 and wasn't even an All-Star People refuse to give Luka that LeBron treatment even though he's had a similar start to his career, just hasn't teamed up with other ATG's yet, and came in as a messiah type of prospect.

Unbiased/nonracist fans know what Luka is, 1 of the 3 players that is going to run his generation, and end up in the Top 15 ATG if he wins a ring. Which he no doubt will.

Hopefully people don't turn him into TJ McConnel though when he retires

yeah this isn't it. Not sure why you think poor white people never get their flowers, but let's not.

People realize Bird is an all-time great. People realize Luka is great. Even though they are white....

But this level of victimhood based on race? no, please no.

I feel you, but it's 2024 and everyone has a podcast now and a platform, and it's not like people bringing up Luka being white or being liked because he's white is me making stuff up. A quick goole search should do the trick for you. You're a MOD, you see the same threads I've seen over the years. This is a thing whether we like it or not

The amount of quotes about Bird and Dirk from NBA players saying that if they were black they would just be another player is quite lengthy.

Remember when Montrez called him a white boy We had to listen to that for months. It's not like I just pulled that rabbit out of a hat

A lot of this though I guess is perception. Me hearing "He' good for a white boy" is undervaluing Luka, while people who prefer to stereotype might hear that and think it's okay, I view it as a way of reclassifying his game.

You might not like that I point it out, but you can't deny that this is a part of NBA culture even if we have gotten better with it (because of guys like Luka and Jokic)

Happens to every nba player who fans keep claiming he’s the best….you know kwahi an nba champion but mavs fan use than playoff win over him

[ChipotleWest]

yeah this isn't it. Not sure why you think poor white people never get their flowers, but let's not.

People realize Bird is an all-time great. People realize Luka is great. Even though they are white....

But this level of victimhood based on race? no, please no.

I feel you, but it's 2024 and everyone has a podcast now and a platform, and it's not like people bringing up Luka being white or being liked because he's white is me making stuff up. A quick goole search should do the trick for you. You're a MOD, you see the same threads I've seen over the years. This is a thing whether we like it or not

The amount of quotes about Bird and Dirk from NBA players saying that if they were black they would just be another player is quite lengthy.

Remember when Montrez called him a white boy We had to listen to that for months. It's not like I just pulled that rabbit out of a hat

A lot of this though I guess is perception. Me hearing "He' good for a white boy" is undervaluing Luka, while people who prefer to stereotype might hear that and think it's okay, I view it as a way of reclassifying his game.

You might not like that I point it out, but you can't deny that this is a part of NBA culture even if we have gotten better with it (because of guys like Luka and Jokic)

Happens to every nba player who fans keep claiming he’s the best….you know kwahi an nba champion but mavs fan use than playoff win over him

So you're saying Luka should have won a title already yes or no? You're saying he had teams that were worthy of winning the title yes or no? If not be quiet. If yes you're incorrect. This is a team game it's not golf, you can be a great player and not win a championship by the time you're 25, most players don't win one that young when they're the best player on the team. I guess Jordan and Lebron sucked at 25 by your logic.

[BeiBeau]

Well just look and hear how he's been rated by most of fans and medias for the MVP race despite having one of the best ever season at least statistically (and with his team for the last 2/3 months, they've basically been the best team in NBA along with Celtics during that span) and go to tell me stretch that he's been rated like he and his season deserves to be rated.

He's been rated like he and his season deserve to be rated. Do you think it's some travesty that he'll be 2nd in the MVP race?

It’s 100% a travesty that he was behind Shai for most of the year or finished behind Booker 2 years ago. Shai and Booker have never in their lives ever been better or more valuable then Luka.

[BeiBeau]

No, seeding is not an argument against Luka. The argument is that Jokic has had statistically better season and 8 wins more. There's actually no argument for Luka over Jokic other than some made up nonsense from social media.

There absolutely is an argument for Luka, the Mavs had a terrible luck with injuries this season with Kyrie, Lively, J.Green, Exum and Kleber all missing many games. That's 3 starters btw. That Luka managed to keep the team above .500 during those injuries is nothing short of incredible considering how competitive the Western Conference is this season. The 8 wins more is simply the results of the Mavs struggling with the injuries and can't be used as argument to have Jokic over Luka.

And Jokic managed to keep the team with no bench, no stars, no accolades, no other consistent players, and 2nd option missing 23 games, at .700 for the whole season. That's nothing short of incredible.

The nuggets lost 40 games from their rotation pieces (not including Jokic) to injury this season. Dallas lost 117 games from rotation pieces(not including Luka) yo injury. They’re not the same and you dumpling have no clue what you’re talking about.

[losmi]

There absolutely is an argument for Luka, the Mavs had a terrible luck with injuries this season with Kyrie, Lively, J.Green, Exum and Kleber all missing many games. That's 3 starters btw. That Luka managed to keep the team above .500 during those injuries is nothing short of incredible considering how competitive the Western Conference is this season. The 8 wins more is simply the results of the Mavs struggling with the injuries and can't be used as argument to have Jokic over Luka.

And Jokic managed to keep the team with no bench, no stars, no accolades, no other consistent players, and 2nd option missing 23 games, at .700 for the whole season. That's nothing short of incredible.

The nuggets lost 40 games from their rotation pieces (not including Jokic) to injury this season. Dallas lost 117 games from rotation pieces(not including Luka) yo injury. They’re not the same and you dumpling have no clue what you’re talking about.

Yeah, those 80 games difference is like a missed season from one player that is on average like 6th best player in the rotation. That doesn't move the needle considering that Jokic has 8 wins more with a below average supporting cast (average starters and an abysmal bench). And Jokic is the best player in the world and is having statistically best individual season in the league this year.

Zero arguments for Luka aside from a nonsense from social media that is based on a false premise that Luka is statistically better and that Jokic plays on a superteam.

Luka is an all-time great who will have his share of MVPs in the following years, but this season Jokic has been better by all means.

[hagredionis]

And Jokic managed to keep the team with no bench, no stars, no accolades, no other consistent players, and 2nd option missing 23 games, at .700 for the whole season. That's nothing short of incredible.

The nuggets lost 40 games from their rotation pieces (not including Jokic) to injury this season. Dallas lost 117 games from rotation pieces(not including Luka) yo injury. They’re not the same and you dumpling have no clue what you’re talking about.

Yeah, those 80 games difference is like a missed season from one player that is on average like 6th best player in the rotation. That doesn't move the needle considering that Jokic has 8 wins more with a below average supporting cast (average starters and an abysmal bench). And Jokic is the best player in the world and is having statistically best individual season in the league this year.

Zero arguments for Luka aside from a nonsense from social media that is based on a false premise that Luka is statistically better and that Jokic plays on a superteam.

Luka is an all-time great who will have his share of MVPs in the following years, but this season Jokic has been better by all means.

Jokic only had one guy who plays at least 20 mpg missing significant number of games but Luka had 5, that does make a huge a difference. Adjusted for injuries the Mavs would probably be the first seed. Considering the amazing season Luka is having first in PPG, second in APG and first among all guards in RPG, a season which includes breaking all times records like for example consecutive +30 points triple doubles, highest PPG+APG+RBG since 50 years etc etc the MVP is much closer than you think.

[Pelly24]

I actually do think he's underrated. The only person I can accept being seen as better than him is Jokic. He's dominated in the playoffs. I fully expect him to dominate the clippers in round 1.

[BeiBeau]

And Jokic managed to keep the team with no bench, no stars, no accolades, no other consistent players, and 2nd option missing 23 games, at .700 for the whole season. That's nothing short of incredible.

The nuggets lost 40 games from their rotation pieces (not including Jokic) to injury this season. Dallas lost 117 games from rotation pieces(not including Luka) yo injury. They’re not the same and you dumpling have no clue what you’re talking about.

Yeah, those 80 games difference is like a missed season from one player that is on average like 6th best player in the rotation. That doesn't move the needle considering that Jokic has 8 wins more with a below average supporting cast (average starters and an abysmal bench). And Jokic is the best player in the world and is having statistically best individual season in the league this year.

Zero arguments for Luka aside from a nonsense from social media that is based on a false premise that Luka is statistically better and that Jokic plays on a superteam.

Luka is an all-time great who will have his share of MVPs in the following years, but this season Jokic has been better by all means.

If you think losing a key rotation player for an entire season is no big deal then you just simply don’t understand the sport.

Luka has done everything necessarily stabilize a tough season. Nobody would argue prior to the trade deadline that Luka had the better supporting cast.

[losmi]

The nuggets lost 40 games from their rotation pieces (not including Jokic) to injury this season. Dallas lost 117 games from rotation pieces(not including Luka) yo injury. They’re not the same and you dumpling have no clue what you’re talking about.

Yeah, those 80 games difference is like a missed season from one player that is on average like 6th best player in the rotation. That doesn't move the needle considering that Jokic has 8 wins more with a below average supporting cast (average starters and an abysmal bench). And Jokic is the best player in the world and is having statistically best individual season in the league this year.

Zero arguments for Luka aside from a nonsense from social media that is based on a false premise that Luka is statistically better and that Jokic plays on a superteam.

Luka is an all-time great who will have his share of MVPs in the following years, but this season Jokic has been better by all means.

If you think losing a key rotation player for an entire season is no big deal then you just simply don’t understand the sport.

Luka has done everything necessarily stabilize a tough season. Nobody would argue prior to the trade deadline that Luka had the better supporting cast.

It's a big deal, but I'm not sure if a single key rotation player adds 8 wins.

[Hoop Hunter]

I've thought he was a top 5 player the last 2 seasons. He's my MVP for this season.

[dygaction]

Yeah, those 80 games difference is like a missed season from one player that is on average like 6th best player in the rotation. That doesn't move the needle considering that Jokic has 8 wins more with a below average supporting cast (average starters and an abysmal bench). And Jokic is the best player in the world and is having statistically best individual season in the league this year.

Zero arguments for Luka aside from a nonsense from social media that is based on a false premise that Luka is statistically better and that Jokic plays on a superteam.

Luka is an all-time great who will have his share of MVPs in the following years, but this season Jokic has been better by all means.

If you think losing a key rotation player for an entire season is no big deal then you just simply don’t understand the sport.

Luka has done everything necessarily stabilize a tough season. Nobody would argue prior to the trade deadline that Luka had the better supporting cast.

It's a big deal, but I'm not sure if a single key rotation player adds 8 wins.

What about Powell for Gafford for a 82-game season?

[Stealth1]

Yeah, those 80 games difference is like a missed season from one player that is on average like 6th best player in the rotation. That doesn't move the needle

What kind of stupid logic is this? 2-3 starters concurrently injured in no way equates to a 6th man. Preposterous, but what is even more laughable is your claim that Jokic's supporting cast is below average too

And its 6 wins difference.

[BeiBeau]

If you think losing a key rotation player for an entire season is no big deal then you just simply don’t understand the sport.

Luka has done everything necessarily stabilize a tough season. Nobody would argue prior to the trade deadline that Luka had the better supporting cast.

It's a big deal, but I'm not sure if a single key rotation player adds 8 wins.

What about Powell for Gafford for a 82-game season?

Or just Powell to Lively. Before the TDL Dallas was on pace for 50 wins with Lively started and they were on pace for 20 when he was out. That 1 rookie. This guy just don’t know what he’s talking about.

[BeiBeau]

Yeah, those 80 games difference is like a missed season from one player that is on average like 6th best player in the rotation. That doesn't move the needle

What kind of stupid logic is this? 2-3 starters concurrently injured in no way equates to a 6th man. Preposterous, but what is even more laughable is your claim that Jokic's supporting cast is below average too

And its 6 wins difference.

You can’t use logic on these people.

[losmi]

Yeah, those 80 games difference is like a missed season from one player that is on average like 6th best player in the rotation. That doesn't move the needle

What kind of stupid logic is this? 2-3 starters concurrently injured in no way equates to a 6th man. Preposterous, but what is even more laughable is your claim that Jokic's supporting cast is below average too

And its 6 wins difference.

Which 2-3 starters were concurrently injured?

It's 8 wins difference in games Luka and Jokic played.