NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 5: So who's winning MVP? )

[gottamakeit]

Interesting to see how seriously the Mavs take the OKC match-up, as it will only be live for the Thunder.

None of the main rotation guys are playing major (if any) minutes. THJ is going to get some burn to get his shooting touch back. This is going to be a Thunder win. Mavs chilling happily in 5th with nothing to play for and everything to lose (to injury).

[Special_Puppy]

If Luka played for Denver he would be the runaway winner. If Jokic played for the Mavs he likely isn’t even in the MVP conversation.

Denver is absolutely terrible without Jokic on the floor, even with Murray leading the bench. They are basically the worst offensive team in the league without him, and the best with him. And he improves their defense too, unlike Luka.

Give him a co star like Kyrie (26 ppg on 50/40/90!) and they would be running away with the best record. Put Luka on the Nuggets and they would be fighting to stay out of the play-in.

Have you forgot about Jamal Murray? How about MPJ? Are you saying they both suck and provide Jokic with no help?

Main problem with the Nuggets is that they have zero depth so they have to give a lot of bad players a ton of minutes in the regular season. It’s alleviated somewhat in the playoffs but it still a problem. Murray is also not an all star caliber player in the regular season even if he is quite good. Overall I wouldn’t say that Jokic’s supporting cast sucks, but it’s sizably worse than basically every recent championship winner in the regular season at least

[Special_Puppy]

1

[Special_Puppy]

Mods delete this

[MaliBrah]

Thunder get the 1 seed and SGA is my mvp man lol.

[Mavrelous]

Interesting to see how seriously the Mavs take the OKC match-up, as it will only be live for the Thunder.

None of the main rotation guys are playing major (if any) minutes. THJ is going to get some burn to get his shooting touch back. This is going to be a Thunder win. Mavs chilling happily in 5th with nothing to play for and everything to lose (to injury).

Yeah, Mavs already told the media Kyrie and Luka are shut down for the last 2 games.

[Special_Puppy]

Thunder get the 1 seed and SGA is my mvp man lol.

I think SGA is a very deserving winner, but how much does seeding matter in the MVP convo if they literally have the same record

[dygaction]

Interesting to see how seriously the Mavs take the OKC match-up, as it will only be live for the Thunder.

None of the main rotation guys are playing major (if any) minutes. THJ is going to get some burn to get his shooting touch back. This is going to be a Thunder win. Mavs chilling happily in 5th with nothing to play for and everything to lose (to injury).

Yeah, Mavs already told the media Kyrie and Luka are shut down for the last 2 games.

Would be hilarious to play hot potato and butter hands to force a 34:33 OKC win.

[MaliBrah]

Thunder get the 1 seed and SGA is my mvp man lol.

I think SGA is a very deserving winner, but how much does seeding matter in the MVP convo if they literally have the same record

Fair .. he also has a better head to head record then? 3-1 vs the Nuggets with a game winner on the road in Denver.

We expected Denver to be here. We did not expect the youngest team in the league to be here. OKC is probably a couple more games ahead too if that March injury blip didn’t happen for SGA.

[MrGoat]

tonight

Mavs: get ass rammed by Pistons without Luka. Turns out missing a guy who between points and assists accounts for over 57 points per game for the first time since probably Wilt's 50 point season hurts
Nuggets: blow game against Spurs with Jokic playing 38 minutes and lose control of the 1 seed. If that was intentional, they may have been ducking the Mavs. If it wasn't... well that doesn't look good either

[MrGoat]

Interesting to see how seriously the Mavs take the OKC match-up, as it will only be live for the Thunder.

It was announced before the Mavs even started the Pistons game that Luka and Kyrie are out for that one too. So you might as well crown OKC Western conference champs already

[MrGoat]

extra message, delete.

[gottamakeit]

Thunder get the 1 seed and SGA is my mvp man lol.

He's your Canadian MVP

[Special_Puppy]

Thunder get the 1 seed and SGA is my mvp man lol.

I think SGA is a very deserving winner, but how much does seeding matter in the MVP convo if they literally have the same record

Fair .. he also has a better head to head record then? 3-1 vs the Nuggets with a game winner on the road in Denver.

We expected Denver to be here. We did not expect the youngest team in the league to be here. OKC is probably a couple more games ahead too if that March injury blip didn’t happen for SGA.

Denver probably has ~2 more wins if Murray didn’t miss a 4th of the season though (maybe a bit more because of just how bad Reggie Jackson is).

[gottamakeit]

If injuries weren't a thing, the Mavs would have gotten 55-58 wins. Combine that with Wiltesque numbers and we would've had a unanimous MVP

[Special_Puppy]

tonight

Mavs: get ass rammed by Pistons without Luka. Turns out missing a guy who between points and assists accounts for over 57 points per game for the first time since probably Wilt's 50 point season hurts
Nuggets: blow game against Spurs with Jokic playing 38 minutes and lose control of the 1 seed. If that was intentional, they may have been ducking the Mavs. If it wasn't... well that doesn't look good either

Not saying it’s wrong, but it’s kinda weird that you are saying that Jokic playing and the Nuggets losing is worse for his MVP case than if he just sat out the game like Luka did with the Pistons

[namlede]

Shai playing with a bunch of kids. Got them to a possible 1 seed who NOBODY, even thunder fans thought was possible. That’s got to count for something.

[gottamakeit]

Shai playing with a bunch of kids. Got them to a possible 1 seed who NOBODY, even thunder fans thought was possible. That’s got to count for something.

J Dubb and Chet are studs playing just below all-star level. this OKC team is stacked and all the casuals will acknowledge as much next year.

[Bob8]

You're deliberate missing my point, around 8 MVPs is reserved for the GOAT, not someone around 10th position.

Hater? I said many times that he's the best player in last years. But he's long way away of being top 10, he needs at least 2 more rings.

I was advocating for Luka being better than SGA not Jokic. We have here people, who have numerous players in front of him, seeing Luka as non impactful player. Saying that Luka deserves being second and not agreeing that Jokic is on GOAT trajectory is not exactly the same. And Luka didn't win anything for playing with bad/injured roster, Jokic did. I kinda doubt he will get another 1 like in 2022. So I don't understand why are you bringing Luka in this debate.

One thing is admitting that Jokic is the best player now, totally true. Saying that what he's doing in last 4 years is GOAT level is just laughable. He has advanced stats on that GOAT level, but he will need a lot more of winning to be even in conversation for top 10. You can win single MVP based on circumstances, but nobody cares with who you're playing, if you want to win the most MVPs in the history.

first of all, I wrote "you sound like a run-of-the-mill Jokic hater" because I know u aren't. that's why I wrote that you sound like and not "are" a hater

as for the bolded part, that's exactly what i'm saying - having more MVP's does not make a player better than a player with less.
otherwise why bother ranking the top 20, let's just arrange them in order of MVP's

MVP is an award that's awarded every season for it's particular and unique circumstances
let's suppose Magic, Bird, Kareem, LBJ, MJ, Shaq, Moses Malone, Duncan and Dr J are all playing in their primes for an entire decade together. gonna be hard for any of them to rack up MVPs, right?

there can only be one MVP winner each season and circumstances vary - not every MVP is equal..
if Dr J wins 4/10 MVPs in my hypotethical decade - they would each mean alot more than say..Wilt and Russel alternating between the two of them

so you see, it doesn't work like that, Jokic winning 3,5,6 or 8 does not mean he's the GOAT even if the GOAT failed to achieve that, in their respective eras and seasons

No, I'm saying something far more simpler. You can't win that many MVPs, be praised as GOAT performance, but your team really not being that good. 1 or 2 you can get by circumstances but you can't get as many as sport legends, if your team is not really a top team. They simply won't give to him that many. We can discuss, if it's right or not. I can't see a reason why he should be threatened differently than other stars. Expectations just going up with number of MVPs.

[gottamakeit]

tonight

Mavs: get ass rammed by Pistons without Luka. Turns out missing a guy who between points and assists accounts for over 57 points per game for the first time since probably Wilt's 50 point season hurts
Nuggets: blow game against Spurs with Jokic playing 38 minutes and lose control of the 1 seed. If that was intentional, they may have been ducking the Mavs. If it wasn't... well that doesn't look good either

I think with Denver dropping in the seedings, it significantly hurts the narrative of Jokic's case for MVP. The best player on the best team is Tatum. The best player in the league is Luka. The second best player in the league is Jokic.