NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 5: So who's winning MVP? )

[QPR]

If injuries weren't a thing, the Mavs would have gotten 55-58 wins. Combine that with Wiltesque numbers and we would've had a unanimous MVP

That also means every team they play is full strength too though

Also does Denver get extra wins with Murray not missing a quarter of the season (thus probably getting them to 65+), or does this hypothetical only apply to Dallas?

[Bob8]

I believe it's impossible that GOAT Jokic is dominated by a rookie in that important game. Denver and Jokic are clearly afraid to play Mavs and Luka in round 2.

[MrBigShot]

Tonight made a pretty damn good case for Luka lmao

[Handlez]

Wemby dominated Jokic wtf.

Luka doesn't play and Mavs get wrecked.

Jokic loses to Spurs while trying to win.

Come on.

[Bob8]

If injuries weren't a thing, the Mavs would have gotten 55-58 wins. Combine that with Wiltesque numbers and we would've had a unanimous MVP

That also means every team they play is full strength too though

Also does Denver get extra wins with Murray not missing a quarter of the season (thus probably getting them to 65+), or does this hypothetical only apply to Dallas?

I believe we already explained that 33 different lineups and 176 minutes for the most used lineup is next level problem.

Denver, 14 starting lineups. 913 minutes for Denver's most used lineup.

If you find those 2 circumstances remotely similar then...

Mavs when playing with the best lineup are 16/2, 15.5 Netrtg.

[Bob8]

Tonight made a pretty damn good case for Luka lmao

Funny enough that probably puts him on 3rd place. Reasoning will be, Sga deserves being second for winning West.

[Special_Puppy]

You're deliberate missing my point, around 8 MVPs is reserved for the GOAT, not someone around 10th position.

Hater? I said many times that he's the best player in last years. But he's long way away of being top 10, he needs at least 2 more rings.

I was advocating for Luka being better than SGA not Jokic. We have here people, who have numerous players in front of him, seeing Luka as non impactful player. Saying that Luka deserves being second and not agreeing that Jokic is on GOAT trajectory is not exactly the same. And Luka didn't win anything for playing with bad/injured roster, Jokic did. I kinda doubt he will get another 1 like in 2022. So I don't understand why are you bringing Luka in this debate.

One thing is admitting that Jokic is the best player now, totally true. Saying that what he's doing in last 4 years is GOAT level is just laughable. He has advanced stats on that GOAT level, but he will need a lot more of winning to be even in conversation for top 10. You can win single MVP based on circumstances, but nobody cares with who you're playing, if you want to win the most MVPs in the history.

first of all, I wrote "you sound like a run-of-the-mill Jokic hater" because I know u aren't. that's why I wrote that you sound like and not "are" a hater

as for the bolded part, that's exactly what i'm saying - having more MVP's does not make a player better than a player with less.
otherwise why bother ranking the top 20, let's just arrange them in order of MVP's

MVP is an award that's awarded every season for it's particular and unique circumstances
let's suppose Magic, Bird, Kareem, LBJ, MJ, Shaq, Moses Malone, Duncan and Dr J are all playing in their primes for an entire decade together. gonna be hard for any of them to rack up MVPs, right?

there can only be one MVP winner each season and circumstances vary - not every MVP is equal..
if Dr J wins 4/10 MVPs in my hypotethical decade - they would each mean alot more than say..Wilt and Russel alternating between the two of them

so you see, it doesn't work like that, Jokic winning 3,5,6 or 8 does not mean he's the GOAT even if the GOAT failed to achieve that, in their respective eras and seasons

No, I'm saying something far more simpler. You can't win that many MVPs, be praised as GOAT performance, but your team really not being that good. 1 or 2 you can get by circumstances but you can't get as many as sport legends, if your team is not really a top team. They simply won't give to him that many. We can discuss, if it's right or not. I can't see a reason why he should be threatened differently than other stars. Expectations just going up with number of MVPs.

First off I don’t think Jokic is going to win more than 3 MVPs lol. Second I’m suprised that nobody has brought up Kareem winning *6* MVPs before he even won his second championship.

[Wolfgang630]

It’s ok when Kareem did it.

[QPR]

If injuries weren't a thing, the Mavs would have gotten 55-58 wins. Combine that with Wiltesque numbers and we would've had a unanimous MVP

That also means every team they play is full strength too though

Also does Denver get extra wins with Murray not missing a quarter of the season (thus probably getting them to 65+), or does this hypothetical only apply to Dallas?

I believe we already explained that 33 different lineups and 176 minutes for the most used lineup is next level problem.

Denver, 14 starting lineups. 913 minutes for Denver's most used lineup.

If you find those 2 circumstances remotely similar then...

Mavs when playing with the best lineup are 16/2, 15.5 Netrtg.

I didn't say they were similar, I was just asking if the "no injuries" hypothetical applies to all teams or only to Dallas

[Bob8]

That also means every team they play is full strength too though

Also does Denver get extra wins with Murray not missing a quarter of the season (thus probably getting them to 65+), or does this hypothetical only apply to Dallas?

I believe we already explained that 33 different lineups and 176 minutes for the most used lineup is next level problem.

Denver, 14 starting lineups. 913 minutes for Denver's most used lineup.

If you find those 2 circumstances remotely similar then...

Mavs when playing with the best lineup are 16/2, 15.5 Netrtg.

I didn't say they were similar, I was just asking if the "no injuries" hypothetical applies to all teams or only to Dallas

Mavs would be very happy, if they had the same amount of injuries as other playoff teams.

All this doesn't matter much anymore, Mavs fans are extremely happy with how things are going, the only wish is getting Lively back for round 1. Then whatever happens, happens.

[SlovenianDragon]

Still think sga should be mvp...

[juanc]

Before the season started: Nuggets EZ 1st in west, Dallas sucks, their max is playin.
Reality: Nuggets 3rd, Mavs 5th
Like I already said, this is the Jokic redemption MVP year

[Bob8]

Before the season started: Nuggets EZ 1st in west, Dallas sucks, their max is playin.
Reality: Nuggets 3rd, Mavs 5th
Like I already said, this is the Jokic redemption MVP year

Yes, no way that Jokic gets this, if he would have gotten last year's. But to be fair, they would have probably given MVP to SGA in that case.

[Sgt Major]

Embarrassing loss and showing last night, I'd actually like the MVP to go to Doncic now.

Jokic destroyed Wemby last time, but now he had one of his dumb passive games and he deserves to lose the trophy he already had in his pocket.

[ChipotleWest]

The Nuggets beat the #1 seed Wolves and took over #1 seed just to lose it to the last place team in the West. Can't make this stuff up.

I thought beating the Wolves sealed it for Jokic, now I'm not sure.

Have a strange suspicion it might not be Jokic or Luka now, they may give it to SGA if OKC can hold on to the one seed past Sunday just because he lead a 42-20 lead last year to the #1 seed. All they have to do is beat a Mavs team with nothing to play for. Luka and Kyrie likely won't play as they didn't vs. Pistons last night.

[Mr Puddles]

I think this is Doncic's year. He's got the record this year to match the stats.

I think voting will be:

1.Doncic
2. Jokic
3. SGA
4. Tatum

[Crunch 99]

It would be a shame to give it to a player who only played 70 games and whose team only managed to finish in fifth place, six games behind the leaders. And it will be seven games behind first place after Luka and Kyrie sit out the final game.

[MoneyTalks41890]

I think this is Doncic's year. He's got the record this year to match the stats.

I think voting will be:

1.Doncic
2. Jokic
3. SGA
4. Tatum

There’s no chance

Mavs are closer to being out of the play in than they are to OKC and probably also Denver.

It’s a full season award. Even though posters are mostly goldfish, the voters aren’t.

[ChipotleWest]

It would be a shame to give it to a guy who only played 70 games and whose team only managed to finish in fifth place, a full six games behind the leaders. And it will be seven games behind first place after Luka and Kyrie sit out the next game.

It's been discussed ad nauseum on this thread but the Mavs were a broken team earlier in the season with injuries, Luka was consistent the entire season and kept them afloat now they're the hottest team in the NBA. Jokic has a better team overall than the Mavs and he is now in 3rd place which is only two places better, and I know it's just one game but they had the #1 seed wrapped up but lost to the last place Spurs and choked it away and he only shot the ball 9 times? No excuse for that. If we're just going by seeds just give it to Tatum he has the #1 seed overall, but that's not how it works.

[ChipotleWest]

I think this is Doncic's year. He's got the record this year to match the stats.

I think voting will be:

1.Doncic
2. Jokic
3. SGA
4. Tatum

There’s no chance

Mavs are closer to being out of the play in than they are to OKC and probably also Denver.

It’s a full season award. Even though posters are mostly goldfish, the voters aren’t.

Then just give it to Tatum if we're just going by seeds, Jokic choked it away.

Was Luka bad during the beginning of the season? Absolutely not. It's not a team award. He was very valuable to a team that had been dealing with injuries all season. Jokic won it as a 6th seed before and I understand the logic behind it he didn't have a good team because of injuries. Luka dealt with the same thing before the trade deadline, and after the trade deadline they're the hottest team in the league so why is it ok to apply that logic to Jokic for a full season but not Luka for part of the season where he should be rewarded for his team getting substantially better?

"Mavs are closer to being out of the play in than they are to OKC and probably also Denver."

No, they aren't. They have a 10 game lead over the Rockets who are the best team out of the play in, they are 6 games behind the 3 teams tied for 1st. I don't even know where you got that from.