A couple offseason ideas

Jitpal · Post #1 » by **Jitpal** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:18 pm

What do you guys think about doing something like this?

1. Deal Matsui and Clippard for Brad Penny. Penny has one year left plus an option year. Matsui is a Torre guy so he would push to have him. Penny gives us a quality arm in the front end of the rotation.

2. Deal Wang for Jose Valverde, Connor Jackson and Carlos Quentin. With Penny here, Wang isn't needed as much. After Wang's postseason meltdown I am not confident he can do it in the playoffs. The D'backs are interested in a starter and Valverde is being dangled. They have other guys that can close. Valverde can be our 8th inning guy. Connor Jackson is the 1B we need. He has a solid glove and a good bat. Carlos Quentin seems to be on the outs there and he would just fill in the 4th OF role on this team.

3. Deal Farnsworth(pick up most of his deal) for Chris Capuano. Back of the rotation lefty. He can be fixed and be a solid innings eater. He throws strikes and has pretty good peripheral stats.

Thoughts? -Jitpal

Fury · Post #2 » by **Fury** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:51 pm

I like all of the trades. Penny is pretty underrated, and maybe the Dodgers will trade him cause he only has one more year. I'd make all of those trades, and they're pretty decent for the other team as well.

Pharmcat · Post #3 » by **Pharmcat** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:59 pm

im done with getting NL pitchers to pitch in the AL

and why trade Wang? he is a proven 19 game winner in the AL, we know wat we get from him, who knows how Penny will do in AL

Post #4 » by **moocow007** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:17 pm

Jitpal wrote:What do you guys think about doing something like this?

1. Deal Matsui and Clippard for Brad Penny. Penny has one year left plus an option year. Matsui is a Torre guy so he would push to have him. Penny gives us a quality arm in the front end of the rotation.

I'd do it.

2. Deal Wang for Jose Valverde, Connor Jackson and Carlos Quentin. With Penny here, Wang isn't needed as much. After Wang's postseason meltdown I am not confident he can do it in the playoffs. The D'backs are interested in a starter and Valverde is being dangled. They have other guys that can close. Valverde can be our 8th inning guy. Connor Jackson is the 1B we need. He has a solid glove and a good bat. Carlos Quentin seems to be on the outs there and he would just fill in the 4th OF role on this team.

I don't know about this one. Despite the meltdown we are talking about a likely 20-game winner that is only 27 and (both is and will be) making pocket change.

You'd want to get Carl Crawford or one of their other top young OF'ers in that package as well IMHO.

3. Deal Farnsworth(pick up most of his deal) for Chris Capuano. Back of the rotation lefty. He can be fixed and be a solid innings eater. He throws strikes and has pretty good peripheral stats.

Thoughts? -Jitpal

I'd be ok with that.

Post #5 » by **nykgeneralmanager** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:39 pm

Considering the instability that our rotation will have this season, I'm not sure it makes much sense to go from a consistent pitcher in Wang to a question mark in Penny. I'd move Matsui and Clippard for Penny, though.

However, I don't know if the Dodgers would go for Matsui. They have one of the best farm systems in baseball, and some of the best OF prospects in baseball. It doesn't pay for them to go for an older, declining player who costs a lot of money and has 2 years left rather than 1. Also, since Penny has 1 yr left, it doesn't make sense for them to move a quality starting pitcher in his last year for a guy like Matsui with 2 yrs left. They can get good prospects for Penny at the deadline if they aren't a good team, or let him go in the offseason and get their compensation draft picks. It isn't a bad offer, but I just don't see why the Dodgers do it, and I think 15 teams can beat that offer by a lot, including us.

So if we keep Wang and don't get Penny, I'd definitely deal Farnsworth for Capuano. I think this is the best deal you came up with here, since the Brewers are desparate for relievers with the departure of both Leinbrink and Cordero. Paying for Farnsworth would make them that much more interested. Dumping him would be addition by subtraction.

Pugsley_2491 · Post #6 » by **Pugsley_2491** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:49 pm

What type of a pitcher is capuano? Does anyone have a scouting report on him like what types of pitches he uses?

Post #7 » by **PR07** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:28 am

His fastball was down to 85 mph last season, but he has been a pretty good pitcher throughout his career.

Post #8 » by **nykgeneralmanager** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:38 am

He kind of reminds me of Igawa. He'd be a #5 starter, left handed pitcher that doesn't throw very hard but still has decent stuff. He'd walk less guys than Igawa, which is really the only difference that I'd expect in their numbers.

Jitpal · Post #9 » by **Jitpal** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:37 pm

nykgeneralmanager wrote:Considering the instability that our rotation will have this season, I'm not sure it makes much sense to go from a consistent pitcher in Wang to a question mark in Penny. I'd move Matsui and Clippard for Penny, though.

However, I don't know if the Dodgers would go for Matsui. They have one of the best farm systems in baseball, and some of the best OF prospects in baseball. It doesn't pay for them to go for an older, declining player who costs a lot of money and has 2 years left rather than 1. Also, since Penny has 1 yr left, it doesn't make sense for them to move a quality starting pitcher in his last year for a guy like Matsui with 2 yrs left. They can get good prospects for Penny at the deadline if they aren't a good team, or let him go in the offseason and get their compensation draft picks. It isn't a bad offer, but I just don't see why the Dodgers do it, and I think 15 teams can beat that offer by a lot, including us.

So if we keep Wang and don't get Penny, I'd definitely deal Farnsworth for Capuano. I think this is the best deal you came up with here, since the Brewers are desparate for relievers with the departure of both Leinbrink and Cordero. Paying for Farnsworth would make them that much more interested. Dumping him would be addition by subtraction.

It is a risky move but if you look at the overall effect of the team we would be in much better shape for the future. Perhaps not next year but in '09 and beyond. You give Penny the run support Wang gets and he probably gets 17-18 wins. I know Wang is a serious innings eater but it isn't like we don't have Rasner, Karstens, DeSalvo, Wright, Igawa etc. to eat up innings if injury does strike. Then we also get Capuano.

We solve so many holes with these deals. We have a real 1B and young one at that(Conner Jackson). We have a great setup guy(Jose Valverde). We alleviate some of that DH issue. We get another good chip for a potential trade(Carlos Quentin). We pick up a low risk/high reward pitcher who could be a solid 4(Capuano). We still keep all of our chips and gain some more if we did look to deal for Santana or Miguel Cabrera.

I see what you are saying about the Dodgers but I have a gut feeling if a deal like this was presented Torre would push for it. He loves Matsui and he would push for it. Believe it or not I have seen a similar deal rumored around the web. We all know how reliable those are but I will try and find a link. Perhaps we need to add a little more to make it work but it would be worth doing if we did trade Wang.

Penny
Pettitte
Hughes
Capuano
Chamberlain
Kennedy
Moose

Those are 7 good starting pitchers. I don't see innings being an issue.

Then when you look at the bullpen the 8th and 9th innings are in the bag with Valverde and Mo. Veras and Ohledorf look a lot better in the 7th innings instead of the 8th inning. -Jitpal

ccvle · Post #10 » by **ccvle** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:41 pm

Jitpal wrote: I know Wang is a serious innings eater but it isn't like we don't have Rasner, Karstens, DeSalvo, Wright, Igawa etc. to eat up innings if injury does strike. Then we also get Capuano.
l

Those guys dont eat innings. Those are the guys that will tax your bullpen if you throw them out there. Remember the early injuries that we had? Most of replacements rarely pitched more than 5innings.

And just to remind you that Wang pitched two good games in 05 and 06 ALDS, so he is not exactly a choker or "can't handle new york pressure" type of pitcher. Brad Penny's 6.3era in the post season is not so great either.

VinnyTheMick · Post #11 » by **VinnyTheMick** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:36 am

Chase Wright is an innings eater?

Pharmcat · Post #12 » by **Pharmcat** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:30 am

VinnyTheMick wrote:Chase Wright is an innings eater?

cmaff051 · Post #13 » by **cmaff051** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:36 am

VinnyTheMick wrote:Chase Wright is an innings eater?

Jitpal · Post #14 » by **Jitpal** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:10 pm

I don't mean innings eater in the traditional sense. I mean more of sticking him in the bullpen and letting him pitch 3 innings. I mean letting him start a game here or there instead of starting Hughes or Chamberlain. I didn't mean Wright specifically, but rather one of those guys, whoever is hot at the time. -Jitpal

34Celtic · Post #15 » by **34Celtic** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:20 pm

Jitpal wrote:I don't mean innings eater in the traditional sense. I mean more of sticking him in the bullpen and letting him pitch 3 innings. I mean letting him start a game here or there instead of starting Hughes or Chamberlain. I didn't mean Wright specifically, but rather one of those guys, whoever is hot at the time. -Jitpal

So a scrub.