gandlogo wrote:Gobert for Murray and Okongu.
I don't think Atlanta would do that. They've got Gobert light in Capela. Also Gobert's age is a big factor. It would have to be KAT.
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gandlogo wrote:Gobert for Murray and Okongu.
frankenwolf wrote:I do not think that trading KAT is the way to go. Let's say KAT is traded and then Rudy retires in three years. Then what? Are you sure we got a decent return for KAT? Did we get a big man to replace Rudy? If we are wanting to maximize Ant, trade Rudy. If everyone is worried about payroll, trade them all and start over again and enjoy another 20 years of inept Minnesota basketball.
As far as I am concerned, the only trades the Wolves need to be thinking about are those that improve the fringes. We have a great core and should be able to sustain it for the next 5-7 years. If I owned this team, I'm sure the revenue made from multiple championships will off set the tax the team has to pay.
shrink wrote:Part of ATL’s problem with DeJounte Murray has been that he hasn’t been as good a defender as they thought they were getting from the Spurs. His offensive game is improving, but his defense has slid backwards a bit.
I’m surprised that with Capella in many of these deals, the trade offer is for Towns, and not Gobert. While KAT and especially Naz can emulate PF’s, Capella is exclusively a center, and since he is significantly worse than Rudy, he’d be limited to 12-16 minutes a game
shrink wrote:Note30 wrote:shrink wrote:Find me a player better than Towns, that we add assets to get.
That's not a million years old?
Kind of my point. I don’t think that player exists, even if we add assets.
I assume we are a win now team, and want to compete for a championship next year, right?
So not a trade package dividing up talent with picks and, “maybe he’ll eventually grow into someone as good as Towns” young guy?
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
Klomp wrote:If I was negotiating with Atlanta, I would be trying to get Jalen Johnson (Atlanta's version of Naz Reid) and/or Onyeka Okongwu in addition to Dejounte Murray.
Neeva wrote:Klomp wrote:If I was negotiating with Atlanta, I would be trying to get Jalen Johnson (Atlanta's version of Naz Reid) and/or Onyeka Okongwu in addition to Dejounte Murray.
We waited too long to get Johnson, If the wolves traded kat at this years deadline maybe could have gotten Johnson since Murray’s stock was down, now they will probably have to so something like
Kat/Jaden/Moore for Murray/Johnson/Hunter/filler and picks?
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
shangrila wrote:shrink wrote:Note30 wrote:
That's not a million years old?
Kind of my point. I don’t think that player exists, even if we add assets.
I assume we are a win now team, and want to compete for a championship next year, right?
So not a trade package dividing up talent with picks and, “maybe he’ll eventually grow into someone as good as Towns” young guy?
It's a fairly simplistic way of looking at it.
We won't be able to get a player better than Towns because we have no assets to attach and because his health issues and massive contract depress his value. Amassing excellent individual players with no thought to the salary cap or roster construction is also how you end up as the Phoenix Suns.
Klomp wrote:If I was negotiating with Atlanta, I would be trying to get Jalen Johnson (Atlanta's version of Naz Reid) and/or Onyeka Okongwu in addition to Dejounte Murray.
shangrila wrote:shrink wrote:Part of ATL’s problem with DeJounte Murray has been that he hasn’t been as good a defender as they thought they were getting from the Spurs. His offensive game is improving, but his defense has slid backwards a bit.
I’m surprised that with Capella in many of these deals, the trade offer is for Towns, and not Gobert. While KAT and especially Naz can emulate PF’s, Capella is exclusively a center, and since he is significantly worse than Rudy, he’d be limited to 12-16 minutes a game
Murray's defence dipped after moving to the 2 full time. From what I've read he's still good at the 1, which is where he'd be playing here.
shrink wrote:shangrila wrote:shrink wrote:Kind of my point. I don’t think that player exists, even if we add assets.
I assume we are a win now team, and want to compete for a championship next year, right?
So not a trade package dividing up talent with picks and, “maybe he’ll eventually grow into someone as good as Towns” young guy?
It's a fairly simplistic way of looking at it.
We won't be able to get a player better than Towns because we have no assets to attach and because his health issues and massive contract depress his value. Amassing excellent individual players with no thought to the salary cap or roster construction is also how you end up as the Phoenix Suns.
It’s also how you win championships the last twenty years like the Warriors, Lakers, Heat, Bucks, and maybe BOS this year. You pay for multiple all stars, go into the lux, and roll the dice you win a ring.
Look, I’m certainly the guy you’ve heard the last 15 years stressing the importance of frugality. But I also believe championship windows can close in an instant. That is doubly true in Minnesota, who has maybe been this close only once in its 35 year existence. This is the time you get the best talent you can, bite the financial bullet, and try to win a ring.
minimus wrote:shangrila wrote:shrink wrote:Part of ATL’s problem with DeJounte Murray has been that he hasn’t been as good a defender as they thought they were getting from the Spurs. His offensive game is improving, but his defense has slid backwards a bit.
I’m surprised that with Capella in many of these deals, the trade offer is for Towns, and not Gobert. While KAT and especially Naz can emulate PF’s, Capella is exclusively a center, and since he is significantly worse than Rudy, he’d be limited to 12-16 minutes a game
Murray's defence dipped after moving to the 2 full time. From what I've read he's still good at the 1, which is where he'd be playing here.
I think NAW and Murray have pretty similar size/wingspan/weight. NAW gives 100% effort, but opponent superstars are able to score against him regularly, but he makes their life harder. The difference is that NAW coming from the bench and have McDaniels/Edwards to share PoA duties and Gobert/Towns/Anderson in backline. Murray has to defend against starters while also having disadvantage in small Young. So in case we acquire Murray I want him to either come from bench in 2024-25 or be secondary PoA defender in heavy switching perimeter defense McDaniels/Edwards/Murray.
P.S. Murray mid range game/creativity is a bonus, but I think it is better to use as offense generator from bench.
shangrila wrote:shrink wrote:It’s also how you win championships the last twenty years like the Warriors, Lakers, Heat, Bucks, and maybe BOS this year. You pay for multiple all stars, go into the lux, and roll the dice you win a ring.
Look, I’m certainly the guy you’ve heard the last 15 years stressing the importance of frugality. But I also believe championship windows can close in an instant. That is doubly true in Minnesota, who has maybe been this close only once in its 35 year existence. This is the time you get the best talent you can, bite the financial bullet, and try to win a ring.
From memory the Heat have always been a frugal team, rarely if ever paying the luxury tax. That might have changed during the Lebron years though.
For the record, I don't disagree and would love for ownership to go deep into the luxury tax to keep a winning team together. But I've never seen any indication that Glen would do that (he'll pay the tax but what we were looking at was something different), a lot of flags that suggest Lore/ARod can't do it, and a new CBA that is so punishing for teams that try to that it almost makes it impossible even if we could.
shrink wrote:shangrila wrote:shrink wrote:It’s also how you win championships the last twenty years like the Warriors, Lakers, Heat, Bucks, and maybe BOS this year. You pay for multiple all stars, go into the lux, and roll the dice you win a ring.
Look, I’m certainly the guy you’ve heard the last 15 years stressing the importance of frugality. But I also believe championship windows can close in an instant. That is doubly true in Minnesota, who has maybe been this close only once in its 35 year existence. This is the time you get the best talent you can, bite the financial bullet, and try to win a ring.
From memory the Heat have always been a frugal team, rarely if ever paying the luxury tax. That might have changed during the Lebron years though.
For the record, I don't disagree and would love for ownership to go deep into the luxury tax to keep a winning team together. But I've never seen any indication that Glen would do that (he'll pay the tax but what we were looking at was something different), a lot of flags that suggest Lore/ARod can't do it, and a new CBA that is so punishing for teams that try to that it almost makes it impossible even if we could.
You could be right about MIA’s finances with LeBron, Bosh and Wade - I don’t remember either. I’m trying to say many of the recent NBA Champions are a collection of multiple max deal players. MIN is behind the ball game, because if you’re LA or MIA, max deal free agents want to come to your team. But to truly contend with superteams, we’ll need max players that will probably push us into the lux. We have a small window this year, and potentially next, that we have filled in around those players with good players on good deals, like Naz, NAW and Conley. But you’re right, we can’t keep them here forever, and if we have to replace them with vet min guys in 2025-26, we’ll look a lot like PHX.
shangrila wrote:minimus wrote:shangrila wrote:Murray's defence dipped after moving to the 2 full time. From what I've read he's still good at the 1, which is where he'd be playing here.
I think NAW and Murray have pretty similar size/wingspan/weight. NAW gives 100% effort, but opponent superstars are able to score against him regularly, but he makes their life harder. The difference is that NAW coming from the bench and have McDaniels/Edwards to share PoA duties and Gobert/Towns/Anderson in backline. Murray has to defend against starters while also having disadvantage in small Young. So in case we acquire Murray I want him to either come from bench in 2024-25 or be secondary PoA defender in heavy switching perimeter defense McDaniels/Edwards/Murray.
P.S. Murray mid range game/creativity is a bonus, but I think it is better to use as offense generator from bench.
Murray isn't coming off the bench. He wouldn't accept that and I wouldn't expect him to
shangrila wrote:frankenwolf wrote:I do not think that trading KAT is the way to go. Let's say KAT is traded and then Rudy retires in three years. Then what? Are you sure we got a decent return for KAT? Did we get a big man to replace Rudy? If we are wanting to maximize Ant, trade Rudy. If everyone is worried about payroll, trade them all and start over again and enjoy another 20 years of inept Minnesota basketball.
As far as I am concerned, the only trades the Wolves need to be thinking about are those that improve the fringes. We have a great core and should be able to sustain it for the next 5-7 years. If I owned this team, I'm sure the revenue made from multiple championships will off set the tax the team has to pay.
Are you willing to bet on KAT's health? Remember, he hasn't played a full season since his 3rd year and has only played over 70 games twice in the last 6 years.
If you want to argue that he's worth his contract (I don't think he is), is he still worth it if he's playing 50-60 games?
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
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