No free pass for Lebron

[jkvonny]

If the Lakers get swept by Denver this year, it’ll mean that a Lebron led team with prime AD by his side lost EIGHT CONSECUTIVE PLAYOFF GAMES while also missing the playoffs for two seasons during his tenure in LA. Lebron might get a free pass from ESPN, Nick Wright, Shannon Sharpe and kids who started watching the NBA in 2015 but not from me. Lebron managed to win a single game in the 2017 and 2018 Finals COMBINED and is on track to do even worse in the 2023 and 2024 playoffs against Denver (combined). This is your GOAT? A guy who normalizes losing more than winning? A guy who had 7 turnovers last night and attempted his first shot in the 4th quarter with a minute remaining?

He's damn near 40 years old! The Lakers are not a great team. It's a team sport.

They haven't been an elite team (besides that Disney Covid Bubble season). The West is a tuff, deep conference. Has been for years, even before he got to the Lakers.

As for this season. The only playoff teams in the West that the Lakers could possibly beat in a 7 game series are The Pelicans (Zion injured and they have the Pel's number, match up well against NO) and maybe the Thunder (due to their inexperience/youth).

[RHODEY]

Of course You can’t have it both ways. You can’t stroke Lebron when he has a nice game or breaks some cumulative stats record and then let him off of the hook when he stinks it up in the playoffs by reminding people he’s 39. Typical response from a Lebron homer.

FACTS!!!! Keep the pressure on their necks. If LeBum gets swept, this will be another HUGE blow to his questionable legacy. Biggest underachiever when you consider how talented he is. The comparisons to Jordan will become even more laughable.

How many times has MJ been swept? And aside from those 8 years of his prime, what did he accomplish? How many times did he run from the challenge?

Let's not get selective in our criticism.

So are we now comparing off-prime years? Lebron is the beater geezer (based on statpadding) , which makes him a better GOAT?

[VanWest82]

I'll say it again, if MJ gets a pass for every single failure, so does everyone else.

What failures? Are you serisouly trying to pin MJ losing to Bucks even though he was the best player in the series because he had Orlando Woolridge? He didn't do enough vs. Celtics in 86 for you?

Jordan got hurt in 01 right before all star and shouldn't have played after that, so in that context he arguably held back the Wizards for a year when they should've been trying to figure out a new path forward. There are no other failures. His teams lost sometimes, but not because MJ failed.

[infinite11285]

FACTS!!!! Keep the pressure on their necks. If LeBum gets swept, this will be another HUGE blow to his questionable legacy. Biggest underachiever when you consider how talented he is. The comparisons to Jordan will become even more laughable.

How many times has MJ been swept? And aside from those 8 years of his prime, what did he accomplish? How many times did he run from the challenge?

Let's not get selective in our criticism.

So are we now comparing off-prime years? Lebron is the beater geezer (based on statpadding) , which makes him a better GOAT?

Read the OP, apply context, read the posts in the thread (especially my posts), and get back to me.

[infinite11285]

I'll say it again, if MJ gets a pass for every single failure, so does everyone else.

What failures? Are you serisouly trying to pin MJ losing to Bucks even though he was the best player in the series because he had Orlando Woolridge? He didn't do enough vs. Celtics in 86 for you?

Jordan got hurt in 01 right before all star and shouldn't have played after that, so in that context he arguably held back the Wizards for a year when they should've been trying to figure out a new path forward. There are no other failures. His teams lost sometimes, but not because MJ failed.

Do you all now see?

MJ never overcame Bird, only beat Magic on the tail end of his career, failed against the Pistons a few times, lost to Shaq, and admitted he was lucky enough to duck Hakeem, and every year in a Wizards jersey conveniently doesn't count, but he has no failures.

[VanWest82]

I'll say it again, if MJ gets a pass for every single failure, so does everyone else.

What failures? Are you serisouly trying to pin MJ losing to Bucks even though he was the best player in the series because he had Orlando Woolridge? He didn't do enough vs. Celtics in 86 for you?

Jordan got hurt in 01 right before all star and shouldn't have played after that, so in that context he arguably held back the Wizards for a year when they should've been trying to figure out a new path forward. There are no other failures. His teams lost sometimes, but not because MJ failed.

Do you all now see?

MJ never overcame Bird, only beat Magic on the tail end of his career, failed against the Pistons a few times, lost to Shaq, and admitted he was lucky enough to duck Hakem, and every year in a Wizards jersey conveniently doesn't count, but he has no failures.

Not on the level where he was part of the problem, no, outside of Wizards years which I freely admitted.

[infinite11285]

What failures? Are you serisouly trying to pin MJ losing to Bucks even though he was the best player in the series because he had Orlando Woolridge? He didn't do enough vs. Celtics in 86 for you?

Jordan got hurt in 01 right before all star and shouldn't have played after that, so in that context he arguably held back the Wizards for a year when they should've been trying to figure out a new path forward. There are no other failures. His teams lost sometimes, but not because MJ failed.

Do you all now see?

MJ never overcame Bird, only beat Magic on the tail end of his career, failed against the Pistons a few times, lost to Shaq, and admitted he was lucky enough to duck Hakem, and every year in a Wizards jersey conveniently doesn't count, but he has no failures.

Not on the level where he was part of the problem, no, outside of Wizards years which I freely admitted.

Explain the loss to the Magic in the ECF. Explain never beating Bird when it mattered.

[MoneyMo]

Add

Duncan = Always competing and playing for a Title and will get you a title more often than not
Bird = Always competing and playing for a Title and will get you a title more often than not
Kareem = Always competing and playing for a Title and will get you a title more often than not
Hakeem = Always competing and playing for a Title and will get you a title more often than not
Kobe = Always competing and playing for a Title and will get you a title more often than not

Completely false. All of those guys careers ended with a whimper and no where NEAR competing for a title

Oh completely false that is hilarous. Tell me in what way is Lebron a GOAT over Duncan?

That's subjective. My rebutal was to:

"Duncan = Always competing and playing for a Title and will get you a title more often than not"

Duncan went out meekly in 2015-16 NOT competing for a title. He also has 1 more title than Lebron. You make it seem like there is a huge gap when it's only 5 to 4. You also list guys that have less (Bird/Hakeem) and say they were always competing for titles???

Lebron's argument over Duncan would be more mvps, finals mvps, and statistical/records etc. Duncan's would be he has more rings and was a better leader. It's a subjective arguement and there is really no wrong answer to preference, but the consensus would have Lebron above Tim. If you personally don't, I don't care.

[infinite11285]

This is hilarious. No free pass for Jordan at 39 either then right? He was a loser right?

The prime criteria for GOAT should be ring total and finals wining percentages.

I'll give you the Lebron is the best oldest stat padder in the league....wowee! What an accomplishment.

But I think its hilarious, that a player who lost in 6 finals and only winning 4, should even be compared to someone who won all 6 finals he was in.

So by your criteria, Bill Russell is the GOAT.

I await your response.

[Patches Perry]

Sometimes these threads end up proving the very thing they're trying to disprove. LeBron is held to a standard even Michael Jordan isn't held to by his own fans and supporters.

Regardless of whether a 39yo LeBron's 27/8/6 in a game 1 loss against the #2 Nuggets proves he isn't the GOAT, no other GOAT candidate is held to anywhere close to the same standard. The current consensus GOAT was getting praises heaped on him for scoring 20ppg on 20 shots per game on one of the 10 worst teams in the league who couldn't even make the playoffs in the east, despite the 8th seed only winning 37 games. That's how we view our current GOAT. LeBron is held to an insane standard and ironically, that in itself shows you that LeBron obviously has a firm spot in the conversation.

[Patches Perry]

This is hilarious. No free pass for Jordan at 39 either then right? He was a loser right?

The prime criteria for GOAT should be ring total and finals wining percentages.

I'll give you the Lebron is the best oldest stat padder in the league....wowee! What an accomplishment.

But I think its hilarious, that a player who lost in 6 finals and only winning 4, should even be compared to someone who won all 6 finals he was in.

So by your criteria, Bill Russell is the GOAT.

I await your response.

I assure you, the qualifiers are coming lol. The rule of GOAT conversations is always that context for ring counts only matter if the guy I'm arguing for has less. We'll call this the rule of GOATs.

[Knightfall]

I have the op blocked. I'm guessing hes made plenty of posts before that I said I'm not wasting my brain cells on and this is probably another one. What I will say is for someone who is not in their prime amd probably never was your posts are terrible and im guessing have just gotten worst. I mean, if you're not good at posting it really shouldn't make you think about criticizing others and their careers. Just hang it up and retire.

[VanWest82]

Do you all now see?

MJ never overcame Bird, only beat Magic on the tail end of his career, failed against the Pistons a few times, lost to Shaq, and admitted he was lucky enough to duck Hakem, and every year in a Wizards jersey conveniently doesn't count, but he has no failures.

Not on the level where he was part of the problem, no, outside of Wizards years which I freely admitted.

Explain the loss to the Magic in the ECF. Explain never beating Bird when it mattered.

There is zero argument that Jordan was anything other than a massive positive vs. those Celtics teams. Characterizing those series as anything other that is misleading. 95 Magic series was a disappointment. Failure seems a little harsh. Statistically, he was still the best player in the series but he was also out of shape from playing baseball and ran out of gas. I don't count the last couple years where Lebron got hurt and still played reasonably well in the playoffs as failures either. 2011 Finals was a failure.

[Hobo4President]

Lebron is 39 lol.

Of course You can’t have it both ways. You can’t stroke Lebron when he has a nice game or breaks some cumulative stats record and then let him off of the hook when he stinks it up in the playoffs by reminding people he’s 39. Typical response from a Lebron homer.

Yes. You absolutely can lmao.

How embarassing that you imply other posters just havent watched as much basketball as you and then you proceed to post like a 12 year old fan girl arguing who the best boy band is

[VanWest82]

Anyway, this isn't about winning or losing or how good Lebron is anymore. Anyone wondering what this is about should just go read shi-woo's post on pg 1.

[ItsDanger]

It seems clear he should retire. Lacks the extra gear for big minutes in playoffs. No gas tank anymore. Sure in short spurts, he can still bring it but its not enough. So, he accumulates more wealth and personal stats in these waning years.

The style of play in NBA currently has definitely extended his career.

[infinite11285]

Not on the level where he was part of the problem, no, outside of Wizards years which I freely admitted.

Explain the loss to the Magic in the ECF. Explain never beating Bird when it mattered.

There is zero argument that Jordan was anything other than a massive positive vs. those Celtics teams.

It doesn't matter, he failed. Apply the LeBron standard; so, MJ was the problem.

95 Magic series was a disappointment. Failure seems a little harsh. Statistically, he was still the best player in the series but he was also out of shape from playing baseball and ran out of gas.

It doesn't matter, he failed. Apply the LeBron standard; so, MJ was the problem.

I don't count the last couple years where Lebron got hurt and still played reasonably well in the playoffs as failures either. 2011 Finals was a failure.

So applying the LeBron standard means every year MJ didn't win a ring holds the same weight of failure.

Do you now see the stupidity of similar blanket logic?

[KembaWalker]

Sometimes these threads end up proving the very thing they're trying to disprove. LeBron is held to a standard even Michael Jordan isn't held to by his own fans and supporters.

Regardless of whether a 39yo LeBron's 27/8/6 in a game 1 loss against the #2 Nuggets proves he isn't the GOAT, no other GOAT candidate is held to anywhere close to the same standard. The current consensus GOAT was getting praises heaped on him for scoring 20ppg on 20 shots per game on one of the 10 worst teams in the league who couldn't even make the playoffs in the east, despite the 8th seed only winning 37 games. That's how we view our current GOAT. LeBron is held to an insane standard and ironically, that in itself shows you that LeBron obviously has a firm spot in the conversation.

between this post and your Luka post a few minutes ago where you brush off criticism by posting box score pts/reb/ast and be like "you cant say they had a bad game" really is illuminating to me. this is the new era ball, everyone gets their stats. it has nothing to do with playing good basketball. theres no superstar thats gonna go up there and just put up some box score stinker nowadays 99.99% of the time. these numbers really trickin you guys badly

[NyKnicks1714]

I have the op blocked. I'm guessing hes made plenty of posts before that I said I'm not wasting my brain cells on and this is probably another one. What I will say is for someone who is not in their prime amd probably never was your posts are terrible and im guessing have just gotten worst. I mean, if you're not good at posting it really shouldn't make you think about criticizing others and their careers. Just hang it up and retire.

OP is just trolling. It's the sincere posters nodding and cheering in agreement you should be worried about, lol.

[Dupp]

It’s very unstable behaviour to carry on like this.