Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread

[eyriq]

I'd set it up like:

Suggs/Harris/Franz/Paolo/JI

Cole/Ingles/Moritz

No playing time for WCJ and Fultz

[KillMonger]

Based off what mose said I don't think he's going to stagger Paolo and Franz.... Said some bs about it being a "feel" thing or whatever

Sent from my [Hands] using RealGM mobile app

[SOUL]

Based off what mose said I don't think he's going to stagger Paolo and Franz.... Said some bs about it being a "feel" thing or whatever

Sent from my [Hands] using RealGM mobile app

For a majority of the season, the longest time with neither on the floor was always end of the 1st/early 2nd.. fans complain but our bench would usually bring us back lol.

I think fans are just annoyed that those lineups are good without either guy.. we're basically winning on terms that aren't with the darlings of the team.

That being said, playoffs are a different beast. Regular season would usually have other teams' benches in or maybe 1 or 2 starters, but if Cavs have 3 or 4 guys in that are starting in that time, we can't run those anymore.

[DiplomaticMagic]

Also dont forget a big reason why our bench won games was because of Jonathan Isaac!

[RichCollab]

I'd set it up like:

Suggs/Harris/Franz/Paolo/JI

Cole/Ingles/Moritz

No playing time for WCJ and Fultz

OKC played 11 players.

WCJ is playing in my mind. Fultz only plays if we have guards in foul trouble.

[thelead]

I'd set it up like:

Suggs/Harris/Franz/Paolo/JI

Cole/Ingles/Moritz

No playing time for WCJ and Fultz

OKC played 11 players.

WCJ is playing in my mind. Fultz only plays if we have guards in foul trouble.

To add, Mo can't be the only big on the court when he's in the game. You need a big to play defense alongside him. WCJ can do that while also being able to hit an open shot.

[SOUL]

Yeah, WCJ has to play and should play, although entirely decided by his energy level and shot making.

If your only big rotation is Banchero/Moe/JI .. that's hard to manage with JI capping out at 30 minutes max.

Theoretically you can play Franz at PF or something but if they're going with Mobley/JA for most of the game and Franz can't shoot.. then it's BBQ chicken for them.

[KillMonger]

Based off what mose said I don't think he's going to stagger Paolo and Franz.... Said some bs about it being a "feel" thing or whatever

Sent from my [Hands] using RealGM mobile app

For a majority of the season, the longest time with neither on the floor was always end of the 1st/early 2nd.. fans complain but our bench would usually bring us back lol.

I think fans are just annoyed that those lineups are good without either guy.. we're basically winning on terms that aren't with the darlings of the team.

That being said, playoffs are a different beast. Regular season would usually have other teams' benches in or maybe 1 or 2 starters, but if Cavs have 3 or 4 guys in that are starting in that time, we can't run those anymore.

my problem is you are playing guys that are near unplayable....i don't have to name names you can tell by their play on the court who those guys are....i don't think it would hurt staggering paolo or franz in those lineups so we don't have moments like in the 2nd quarter where we go minutes of gametime without scoring because we're depending on a streaky cole who's in a slump and moe wagner as our offense.....i don't think i can remember a minute when neither garland or Mitchell wasn't on the floor....mose is the only coach in the playoffs with a 10 man rotation....why? there are times where you have to cut the fat and the playoffs is that time.....there are guys that shouldn't be playing right now, and it's an easy adjustment but mose wants to continue his "by committee" approach so....it is what it is

[SOUL]

my problem is you are playing guys that are near unplayable....i don't have to name names you can tell by their play on the court who those guys are....i don't think it would hurt staggering paolo or franz in those lineups so we don't have moments like in the 2nd quarter where we go minutes of gametime without scoring because we're depending on a streaky cole who's in a slump and moe wagner as our offense.....i don't think i can remember a minute when neither garland or Mitchell wasn't on the floor....mose is the only coach in the playoffs with a 10 man rotation....why? there are times where you have to cut the fat and the playoffs is that time.....there are guys that shouldn't be playing right now, and it's an easy adjustment but mose wants to continue his "by committee" approach so....it is what it is

this just isn't true because multiple guys have gone 10 deep and OKC even went 11 deep lol.

i agree there should be guys that aren't playing and we should go 9 deep, but some of you guys are just unrealistic.. dont want ingles playing, dont want fultz playing, dont want WCJ playing, done with gary... barely want cole playing.. isaac can only play 30 minutes max...

there's only so many options to do, especially when your starters get off to rough starts (who everybody wants on the floor)... and the whole "play jett/AB" thing isn't an option right now.. it creates a vacuum of plausible rotational complaints of starters starting slow, but playing bench too much = bad, while pining for guys who have been in and out of the rotation all year.. i truly dont understand what will make people happy lol

the simple ones of cut fultz out of playoff rotation completely and staggering all game, or at least not having 5 bench guys in sure, but the rest our guys just need to play better.. enough excuses for these guys man, they need to make open shots

[KillMonger]

my problem is you are playing guys that are near unplayable....i don't have to name names you can tell by their play on the court who those guys are....i don't think it would hurt staggering paolo or franz in those lineups so we don't have moments like in the 2nd quarter where we go minutes of gametime without scoring because we're depending on a streaky cole who's in a slump and moe wagner as our offense.....i don't think i can remember a minute when neither garland or Mitchell wasn't on the floor....mose is the only coach in the playoffs with a 10 man rotation....why? there are times where you have to cut the fat and the playoffs is that time.....there are guys that shouldn't be playing right now, and it's an easy adjustment but mose wants to continue his "by committee" approach so....it is what it is

this just isn't true because multiple guys have gone 10 deep and OKC even went 11 deep lol.

i agree there should be guys that aren't playing and we should go 9 deep, but some of you guys are just unrealistic.. dont want ingles playing, dont want fultz playing, dont want WCJ playing, done with gary... barely want cole playing.. isaac can only play 30 minutes max...

there's only so many options to do, especially when your starters get off to rough starts (who everybody wants on the floor)... and the whole "play jett/AB" thing isn't an option right now.. it creates a vacuum of plausible rotational complaints of starters starting slow, but playing bench too much = bad, while pining for guys who have been in and out of the rotation all year.. i truly dont understand what will make people happy lol

the simple ones of cut fultz out of playoff rotation completely and staggering all game, or at least not having 5 bench guys in sure, but the rest our guys just need to play better.. enough excuses for these guys man, they need to make open shots

i made my peace with the shooting, it's going to get better just not right now and i'm good with that as long as we let THIS SEASON be the last where we don't have legit shooting on this team, obviously we need paolo and franz to do their part improving shooting as well....what i can't understand is why continue to play someone like fultz when he hasn't been playing well for a while and he's damn near hurting the team....why does mose feel the need to play him? just play Suggs more or play Cole more, might be too much to ask for AB but that is an easy adjustment to me....he's the one guy i look at and think he's useless right now.....he's been getting cooked defensively....he's not really giving us much on the offensive end....his playmaking has regressed, been turning the ball over more than i've ever seen him....why is he getting minutes?

[pepe1991]

Guys, we lost game 1 due our starters being outplayed by Cavs starters.

Isaac - 13
Banchero -11
Wagner -7
Harris -12
Suggs -13


NBA has bunch of players that get nice burns during regular season, who shouldn't be playing in playoffs due how specific their skillset is.

For example, i would never, in any serious basketball game play Mortiz Wagner. That's just mine opinion, just like i would never play Obi Toppin (for almost same ,exect reasons). They "can shoot" but i don't trust them shooting under any sort of pressure, they "can roll" but i don't trust their ability to put ball on the floor against focused defense ,and their passing vision is fairly limited, so on offense they won't be breaking any defense with passing.
In same time, they will be target of every offense on D.

It's very telling,about Mortiz, that even when they won gold medal at World Cup, he was left out late 4th quaters in all games, including USA game and finals game, due defensive issues.

Now it's just question how much Cavs will exploit him vs how much you can squeeze from him on offense, given you suck at offense and you need just about any help you can find.


Black, Jett rotation talks are just silly. No reason to even entertain it. Watch Livley last night to figure why rookies have no business playing in playoffs.

[GelbeWand09]

Guys, we lost game 1 due our starters being outplayed by Cavs starters.

Isaac - 13
Banchero -11
Wagner -7
Harris -12
Suggs -13


NBA has bunch of players that get nice burns during regular season, who shouldn't be playing in playoffs due how specific their skillset is.

For example, i would never, in any serious basketball game play Mortiz Wagner. That's just mine opinion, just like i would never play Obi Toppin (for almost same ,exect reasons). They "can shoot" but i don't trust them shooting under any sort of pressure, they "can roll" but i don't trust their ability to put ball on the floor against focused defense ,and their passing vision is fairly limited, so on offense they won't be breaking any defense with passing.
In same time, they will be target of every offense on D.

It's very telling,about Mortiz, that even when they won gold medal at World Cup, he was left out late 4th quaters in all games, including USA game and finals game, due defensive issues.

Now it's just question how much Cavs will exploit him vs how much you can squeeze from him on offense, given you suck at offense and you need just about any help you can find.


Black, Jett rotation talks are just silly. No reason to even entertain it. Watch Livley last night to figure why rookies have no business playing in playoffs.

Hey, but for Mavs fans on the gb Lively was the difference between Dallas winning in 7 or in 4/5 vs Clippers.

But i would still play Black or Jett over Fultz. Fulz is helpless on both sides. Black at least can defend & Jett theoretically shoot.

[jezzerinho]

Guys, we lost game 1 due our starters being outplayed by Cavs starters.

Isaac - 13
Banchero -11
Wagner -7
Harris -12
Suggs -13


NBA has bunch of players that get nice burns during regular season, who shouldn't be playing in playoffs due how specific their skillset is.

For example, i would never, in any serious basketball game play Mortiz Wagner. That's just mine opinion, just like i would never play Obi Toppin (for almost same ,exect reasons). They "can shoot" but i don't trust them shooting under any sort of pressure, they "can roll" but i don't trust their ability to put ball on the floor against focused defense ,and their passing vision is fairly limited, so on offense they won't be breaking any defense with passing.
In same time, they will be target of every offense on D.

It's very telling,about Mortiz, that even when they won gold medal at World Cup, he was left out late 4th quaters in all games, including USA game and finals game, due defensive issues.

Now it's just question how much Cavs will exploit him vs how much you can squeeze from him on offense, given you suck at offense and you need just about any help you can find.


Black, Jett rotation talks are just silly. No reason to even entertain it. Watch Livley last night to figure why rookies have no business playing in playoffs.

We lost Game 1 due to our guards being an offensive abyss.

I haven't gone looking, but I bet there are lower minute role players on other playoff teams who comfortably outscored our entire squad of guards.

[drsd]

This is how I feel about this series so far:

Watch on YouTube

[SOUL]

^^bingo...

playoffs is just where the big boys step up.. meaning the vet role players and the stars of our team. and you need multiple to do well. star(S).

the rest is finding out which role players are actually playable/keepers for the playoffs. pacers only had siakam step up (well, he has been a champion and played in playoffs before) while hali barely shot and struggled.. first playoff game for him so no judgment, but it's no wonder why they lost big.

paolo/franz need to be able to shoot and space the floor and not turn the ball over like crazy. cole needs to be a reliable shot maker, because he's probably the best on our team at creating his own shot (but not making them), suggs needs to be able to pitch in offensive and hit at the rate we saw during the regular season. isaac/wcj/etc need to take advantage of spot up threes and putbacks.

if we have all of those things happening on offense while having our pesky defense, we will have a chance. it's not asking for much in the grand scheme of things, but this is just a team that is not efficient or skilled on offense at all.

fultz shouldnt play though. i agree. we need to go 9 deep.. but the philosophizing about AB/Jett/Goga legit doesnt matter at all if our best players are just playing mediocre. there have just been very few instances this year of all three suggs/franz/paolo playing super well and one player being the direct cause of a loss.. most of our losses are due to direct correlation of a horrible shooting game from suggs/bad fouls, isaac being out or ineffective (rarely on defense), paolo/franz offensive struggles (quite often).. so while the debates are fun with everyone else.. it starts and ends with them. but yes, hopefully we can find a steady 6-7 players that we can trust every game and rotate the others in or out when needed.

[pepe1991]

We all agree Fultz should no longer play. It's common sense. Finally

[drsd]

We all agree Fultz should no longer play. It's common sense. Finally

And-1

Look you and I disagreed about Fultz all off season. Then game-1 happened. His hitch got WORSE, and I was on the no-more-Fultz bandwagon the following 81. The experiment is over.

But: G-Harris needs to be moved as much / more than Fultz. He is a zombie on offense and destroys this team. Sadly for the playoffs, he needs to start at SG. But that's simply because the SG core is so terrible.

[CarraT]

Well, playoffs are on and what happened? Exactly the thing that lots of posters predicted in beginning of season and around trade deadline. Our guard rotation is just not meant for playoffs. Once we play a series and other team is taking it serious on defense and prepare for our style, we are doomed. They just put all guys in the paint, making it super hard for our core guys Franz and Paolo as their game is relying on driving to the paint. And our guards are just not good enogh to punish that, and just overall a super bad fit to our forwards. But hey, some people need to see it in real life before they believe what is like common sense. But instead they just labeled every try to balance the roster as a panic move.
What will happen in this series? There may will be one or two games where our shots fall a bit better and we win a game. Everyone is happy. Next game will be like Game 1 all over again.
This summer, we finally need to reshape this roster. Get a quality guard who can shoot. Get rid of Fultz. Get a real PG, we have NONE! Take whatever it costs, only players that should stay are Suggs, Franz, Paolo und JI. Trade everyone else and picks, i dont care, just get us a god damn solid shooting scoring guard who can make plays!

[Skybox]

Well, playoffs are on and what happened? Exactly the thing that lots of posters predicted in beginning of season and around trade deadline. Our guard rotation is just not meant for playoffs. Once we play a series and other team is taking it serious on defense and prepare for our style, we are doomed. They just put all guys in the paint, making it super hard for our core guys Franz and Paolo as their game is relying on driving to the paint. And our guards are just not good enogh to punish that, and just overall a super bad fit to our forwards. But hey, some people need to see it in real life before they believe what is like common sense. But instead they just labeled every try to balance the roster as a panic move.
What will happen in this series? There may will be one or two games where our shots fall a bit better and we win a game. Everyone is happy. Next game will be like Game 1 all over again.
This summer, we finally need to reshape this roster. Get a qualitiy guard who can shoot. Get rif od Fultz. Get a real PG, we have NONE! Take whataver it costs, only players that should stay are Suggs, Franz, Paolo und JI. Trade everyone else and picks, i dont care, just get us a god damn solid shooting scoring guard who can make plays!

…and break up the “family” just to win basketball games? Hater!

[Knightro]

Forget about this year, I will forever die on the hill that what Markelle Fultz did *last year* was not good enough to justify his role, but ultimately that’s not relevant in the here and now.