Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread

[Knightro]

I think it's obvious, or at least should be, that the ultimate ceiling of the team will be determined by Paolo, Franz and Suggs (and to a lesser extent Black and maybe Jett if they stick).

That's clear.

But just because those guys aren't the final forms of themselves yet doesn't mean the front office should just blow off the rest of the roster.

Get guys in here who are better than Fultz and Harris and Cole and Ingles and Carter and whoever else needs to be upgraded. Help these young guys reach their ceilings by not surrounding them with bad players.

[Redwood]

We all agree Fultz should no longer play. It's common sense. Finally

Only took 2 years for people to understand

Draft position, unfortunately, tends to brain wash people. It gives players a longer leash than they deserve in many cases, and if Fultz was drafted in the second round his career would already be over. If they offer him a contract in the offseason it is conclusive this front office hasn't the slightest clue what they're doing.

[bigdogdylan5]

It’s funny that everyone talks about how the “stars should step up”.. yeah no ****. They are all also in their first contract in the league still.

The vets need to not be ass. The guys that were here well before the core need to make sense next to them in terms of making their lives easier. Not harder.

You can’t win a playoff series if all your vets can’t shoot or play defense.

I would expect them to do some real work on that this offseason. Fultz Harris and Ingles should be replaced I think for sure two of those three will be gone. But who do you get to replace? Are you trading Black for a veteran shooter and who is it? because of our starting lineup could be Black Suggs Franz Paolo CenterX. Doesn’t matter what vets you get they will be off the bench. The way this offense gets fixed is those core starters get better. I guess the other option is Suggs gets better running the point and allows you to sneak a shooter in there at the 2.

[Fortune Teller]

Playing Fultz sends a terrible message to the team's young players during a time when they should be developing an attack dog mentality. It tells them that being bad is acceptable. That fraternity and friendship is more important than winning. I've never understood why we re-invested in Fultz, but this has reached the point of absurdity. The guy doesn't shoot threes, doesn't draw fouls, and doesn't even get assists anymore. It's become like a weird charity project.

Black isn't much more productive than Fultz, but I agree with everyone who has been saying that if Fultz isn't going to be here next year, then why is he playing. Actually, the question "why is he playing" is a legitimate one even without a qualifier.

And Harris isn't any better, another part-time player who is just getting in his cardio at this point.

[bigdogdylan5]

I think it's obvious, or at least should be, that the ultimate ceiling of the team will be determined by Paolo, Franz and Suggs (and to a lesser extent Black and maybe Jett if they stick).

That's clear.

But just because those guys aren't the final forms of themselves yet doesn't mean the front office should just blow off the rest of the roster.

Get guys in here who are better than Fultz and Harris and Cole and Ingles and Carter and whoever else needs to be upgraded. Help these young guys reach their ceilings by not surrounding them with bad players.

Did I say blow off the rest of the roster? No I did not. They should get better complimenting guys of course. However I fear You could sign 2 40% shooters and insert to the rotation but I don’t think that totally fixes the offense by themselves. It definitely improves it but you need both and I think internal improvement is the most critical but it’s talked about like it’s a forgone conclusion that it will happen.

[DiplomaticMagic]

I used to be a big fan of Fultz....

But he has regressed significantly this year....I dont know if it has to do with TOS or another injury but I cant bet on him if hes going to be like this at any point

Yeah he never shot 3s before but his midrange was money. But now hes not even making those. I think he misses more floaters than makes too.

And he used to run the offense better too, now hes pretty much just standing around, usually 2 feet from the hoop, clogging up the paint and passing lanes.

Hes a disgrace, if we re-sign him, I am done with this team!!!

[pepe1991]

If you ask me, i still think it's 70% mental, 30% health. Every time he has expetations on his shoulders, he crumbles.

But that really doesn't matter.

Much like Elfrid Payton ( and big version of them, Ben Simmons) having PG who can't or won't shoot from 3 ( or any other distance for that matter) is ultimate no-go. It's like Center who can't screen and rebound, shooting guard who can't spot up & cut, quater back who can't throw, striker in soccer who can't score.


And their inability to shoot spills into other problems, like ,inability to run efficient pick&roll makes more than 2 players suffer ( him + screener) , it also hurts spot up shooters because they don't get ball on time, or are heavily covered because teams keep going below screens etc.

[zaymon]

Playing Fultz sends a terrible message to the team's young players during a time when they should be developing an attack dog mentality. It tells them that being bad is acceptable. That fraternity and friendship is more important than winning. I've never understood why we re-invested in Fultz, but this has reached the point of absurdity. The guy doesn't shoot threes, doesn't draw fouls, and doesn't even get assists anymore. It's become like a weird charity project.

Black isn't much more productive than Fultz, but I agree with everyone who has been saying that if Fultz isn't going to be here next year, then why is he playing. Actually, the question "why is he playing" is a legitimate one even without a qualifier.

And Harris isn't any better, another part-time player who is just getting in his cardio at this point.

My biggest concern is that Fultz mental breakdown affects confidence of others. Lets look at Franz and his weird problems with his shot all of sudden. Veterans should help young players come in the the league not be the source of problems.

[basketballRob]

Playing Fultz sends a terrible message to the team's young players during a time when they should be developing an attack dog mentality. It tells them that being bad is acceptable. That fraternity and friendship is more important than winning. I've never understood why we re-invested in Fultz, but this has reached the point of absurdity. The guy doesn't shoot threes, doesn't draw fouls, and doesn't even get assists anymore. It's become like a weird charity project.

Black isn't much more productive than Fultz, but I agree with everyone who has been saying that if Fultz isn't going to be here next year, then why is he playing. Actually, the question "why is he playing" is a legitimate one even without a qualifier.

And Harris isn't any better, another part-time player who is just getting in his cardio at this point.

My biggest concern is that Fultz mental breakdown affects confidence of others. Lets look at Franz and his weird problems with his shot all of sudden. Veterans should help young players come in the the league not be the source of problems.

Exactly. Look at Portland with Lillard. They drafted CJ McCollum, and he learned to be an affective guard. Gary Trent Jr. was a second round pick, I think, and ended up a good pro. Simons has turned out to be a good player and uses Lillard's trainer. All of those players play a little bit like Lillard.

We have Fultz giving tips to our young players. Franz had a stretch where he started playing like him. A bunch of our players pass up open shots. Players need to learn to shoot when they're open and only take it to the basket when you have an advantage.

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[drsd]

The vets need to not be ass.

Post of the day.

[Audi]

My biggest concern is that Fultz mental breakdown affects confidence of others. Lets look at Franz and his weird problems with his shot all of sudden. Veterans should help young players come in the the league not be the source of problems.

Exactly. Look at Portland with Lillard. They drafted CJ McCollum, and he learned to be an affective guard. Gary Trent Jr. was a second round pick, I think, and ended up a good pro. Simons has turned out to be a good player and uses Lillard's trainer. All of those players play a little bit like Lillard.

We have Fultz giving tips to our young players. Franz had a stretch where he started playing like him. A bunch of our players pass up open shots. Players need to learn to shoot when they're open and only take it to the basket when you have an advantage.

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Welp. I've officially heard it all now. Fultz's 'mental meltdown' is the source of Franz's poor 3pt shooting. Fultz is responsible for making Franz "play like him" and our players now pass up open shots because Fultz does. LOL.

I seriously can't wait to see who the next whipping boy will be once Fultz is gone. Probably will blame Jett for being in Ocala so much and not being around to wipe all the other player's poopoo diaper butts since they are apparently toddlers.

[jezzerinho]

Well, playoffs are on and what happened? Exactly the thing that lots of posters predicted in beginning of season and around trade deadline. Our guard rotation is just not meant for playoffs. Once we play a series and other team is taking it serious on defense and prepare for our style, we are doomed. They just put all guys in the paint, making it super hard for our core guys Franz and Paolo as their game is relying on driving to the paint. And our guards are just not good enogh to punish that, and just overall a super bad fit to our forwards. But hey, some people need to see it in real life before they believe what is like common sense. But instead they just labeled every try to balance the roster as a panic move.
What will happen in this series? There may will be one or two games where our shots fall a bit better and we win a game. Everyone is happy. Next game will be like Game 1 all over again.
This summer, we finally need to reshape this roster. Get a quality guard who can shoot. Get rid of Fultz. Get a real PG, we have NONE! Take whatever it costs, only players that should stay are Suggs, Franz, Paolo und JI. Trade everyone else and picks, i dont care, just get us a god damn solid shooting scoring guard who can make plays!

I don't see any FVV calibre player this season for us in FA.

That was a huge swing and a miss to not have nabbed Fred.

Agree it'll probably have to be a trade.

[basketballRob]

My biggest concern is that Fultz mental breakdown affects confidence of others. Lets look at Franz and his weird problems with his shot all of sudden. Veterans should help young players come in the the league not be the source of problems.

Exactly. Look at Portland with Lillard. They drafted CJ McCollum, and he learned to be an affective guard. Gary Trent Jr. was a second round pick, I think, and ended up a good pro. Simons has turned out to be a good player and uses Lillard's trainer. All of those players play a little bit like Lillard.

We have Fultz giving tips to our young players. Franz had a stretch where he started playing like him. A bunch of our players pass up open shots. Players need to learn to shoot when they're open and only take it to the basket when you have an advantage.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Welp. I've officially heard it all now. Fultz's 'mental meltdown' is the source of Franz's poor 3pt shooting. Fultz is responsible for making Franz "play like him" and our players now pass up open shots because Fultz does. LOL.

I seriously can't wait to see who the next whipping boy will be once Fultz is gone. Probably will blame Jett for being in Ocala so much and not being around to wipe all the other player's poopoo diaper butts since they are apparently toddlers.

Fultz isn't held accountable for passing on open shots. Why should other players take every open shot they get?

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[bigdogdylan5]

Exactly. Look at Portland with Lillard. They drafted CJ McCollum, and he learned to be an affective guard. Gary Trent Jr. was a second round pick, I think, and ended up a good pro. Simons has turned out to be a good player and uses Lillard's trainer. All of those players play a little bit like Lillard.

We have Fultz giving tips to our young players. Franz had a stretch where he started playing like him. A bunch of our players pass up open shots. Players need to learn to shoot when they're open and only take it to the basket when you have an advantage.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Welp. I've officially heard it all now. Fultz's 'mental meltdown' is the source of Franz's poor 3pt shooting. Fultz is responsible for making Franz "play like him" and our players now pass up open shots because Fultz does. LOL.

I seriously can't wait to see who the next whipping boy will be once Fultz is gone. Probably will blame Jett for being in Ocala so much and not being around to wipe all the other player's poopoo diaper butts since they are apparently toddlers.

Fultz isn't held accountable for passing on open shots. Why should other players take every open shot they get?

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

To be fair his finishing around the rim and in the paint is borderline elite. He clearly doesn’t have confidence in his shot so I don’t blame him playing to his strengths. He is taking shots he just is missing them. I tend to think his shooting has fallen off a cliff post his injuries and all star break for a reason. I think the FIBA stuff might be playing a role. He played a lot of minutes in FIBA. Not great if that is it because he is going to play in Olympics this summer. The guy has excellent touch and his FT shooting is there. I think he will figure it out.

I really don’t see how Fultz can be to blame for Franz shooting problems. I think it’s a fair bet Fultz isn’t walking around the locker room giving shooting tips.

[zaymon]

My biggest concern is that Fultz mental breakdown affects confidence of others. Lets look at Franz and his weird problems with his shot all of sudden. Veterans should help young players come in the the league not be the source of problems.

Exactly. Look at Portland with Lillard. They drafted CJ McCollum, and he learned to be an affective guard. Gary Trent Jr. was a second round pick, I think, and ended up a good pro. Simons has turned out to be a good player and uses Lillard's trainer. All of those players play a little bit like Lillard.

We have Fultz giving tips to our young players. Franz had a stretch where he started playing like him. A bunch of our players pass up open shots. Players need to learn to shoot when they're open and only take it to the basket when you have an advantage.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Welp. I've officially heard it all now. Fultz's 'mental meltdown' is the source of Franz's poor 3pt shooting. Fultz is responsible for making Franz "play like him" and our players now pass up open shots because Fultz does. LOL.

I seriously can't wait to see who the next whipping boy will be once Fultz is gone. Probably will blame Jett for being in Ocala so much and not being around to wipe all the other player's poopoo diaper butts since they are apparently toddlers.

I cant wait to see who you will defend next to be completely wrong again. I admire your resilience becouse you died on that hill.
Its so natural that young people dont look up to older, more experienced people. You know human nature so well, propably thats why your projections are so accurate

[Audi]

Exactly. Look at Portland with Lillard. They drafted CJ McCollum, and he learned to be an affective guard. Gary Trent Jr. was a second round pick, I think, and ended up a good pro. Simons has turned out to be a good player and uses Lillard's trainer. All of those players play a little bit like Lillard.

We have Fultz giving tips to our young players. Franz had a stretch where he started playing like him. A bunch of our players pass up open shots. Players need to learn to shoot when they're open and only take it to the basket when you have an advantage.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Welp. I've officially heard it all now. Fultz's 'mental meltdown' is the source of Franz's poor 3pt shooting. Fultz is responsible for making Franz "play like him" and our players now pass up open shots because Fultz does. LOL.

I seriously can't wait to see who the next whipping boy will be once Fultz is gone. Probably will blame Jett for being in Ocala so much and not being around to wipe all the other player's poopoo diaper butts since they are apparently toddlers.

I cant wait to see who you will defend next to be completely wrong again. I admire your resilience becouse you died on that hill.
Its so natural that young people dont look up to older, more experienced people. You know human nature so well, propably thats why your projections are so accurate

Yes, I admit I did not foresee Fultz's injuries causing regression to the extent that it has.

But no amount of me being wrong covers for the absolute absurdity in your belief that Franz is so mentally weak that Fultz has mentored him into his 3pt % plummeting. I guess Franz didn't get the memo that he picked the wrong older, more experienced player to control his mind - should've gone with Jingles!

[zaymon]

Welp. I've officially heard it all now. Fultz's 'mental meltdown' is the source of Franz's poor 3pt shooting. Fultz is responsible for making Franz "play like him" and our players now pass up open shots because Fultz does. LOL.

I seriously can't wait to see who the next whipping boy will be once Fultz is gone. Probably will blame Jett for being in Ocala so much and not being around to wipe all the other player's poopoo diaper butts since they are apparently toddlers.

I cant wait to see who you will defend next to be completely wrong again. I admire your resilience becouse you died on that hill.
Its so natural that young people dont look up to older, more experienced people. You know human nature so well, propably thats why your projections are so accurate

Yes, I admit I did not foresee Fultz's injuries causing regression to the extent that is has.

No amount of me being wrong covers for the absolute absurdity in your belief that Franz is so mentally weak that Fultz has mentored him into his 3pt % plummeting. I guess Franz didn't get the memo that he picked the wrong older, more experienced player to control his mind - should've gone with Jingles!

Never said its all Fultz fault dont be so dramatic. I am glad you used the term mentor, becouse veteran mentor is exactly what i am talking about. Fultz was the longest tenured veteran here, and starting point guard at the beginning of the season. Dont tell me he had no impact on Franz, and if you think he had no impact dont you think its as bad ?
Ingles actually had positive impact on our bench, and players like Cole rallied around him. He also talked to Suggs on every other timeout, but he couldnt speak with everybody, Jalen needed it more.
In the end its Franz problem to deal with but i would rather surround him with players who can help him with confidence not players who in the best case scenario are having no impact. You dont agree with me?

[basketballRob]

Welp. I've officially heard it all now. Fultz's 'mental meltdown' is the source of Franz's poor 3pt shooting. Fultz is responsible for making Franz "play like him" and our players now pass up open shots because Fultz does. LOL.

I seriously can't wait to see who the next whipping boy will be once Fultz is gone. Probably will blame Jett for being in Ocala so much and not being around to wipe all the other player's poopoo diaper butts since they are apparently toddlers.

I cant wait to see who you will defend next to be completely wrong again. I admire your resilience becouse you died on that hill.
Its so natural that young people dont look up to older, more experienced people. You know human nature so well, propably thats why your projections are so accurate

Yes, I admit I did not foresee Fultz's injuries causing regression to the extent that it has.

But no amount of me being wrong covers for the absolute absurdity in your belief that Franz is so mentally weak that Fultz has mentored him into his 3pt % plummeting. I guess Franz didn't get the memo that he picked the wrong older, more experienced player to control his mind - should've gone with Jingles!

It has nothing to do with Franz' plummeting 3-pt percentage. It has to do with Franz passing up on wide-open 3-pt shots to drive into a wall of defenders. I don't care if Franz is 1-10 from 3. If he's open 10 times, he needs to shoot it.

Me saying Franz has been playing a little bit like Fultz has nothing to do with percentages

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[bigdogdylan5]

lol Verrier and Wos were really dancing on our graves in their pod they enjoyed it way too much.

[Ducklett]

lol Verrier and Wos were really dancing on our graves in their pod they enjoyed it way too much.

So was colin cowherd. The disrespect is wild.