prophet_of_rage wrote:AlexanderRight wrote:prophet_of_rage wrote:Did max contracts exist in Jordan's time?
Zone defences?
International players
Analytics?
Freedom of movement?
The outside/in game?
The 3 point barrage?
Was there no expansion in Jordan's time?
Massive salary caps?
Social media?
I know you have to pretend the leagues are the same to discount why Jordan trumps Lebron but you can't use the same criteria to say Russell trumps Jordan.
I'm just saying it's a false narrative.
You can just say Jordan is the GOAT because NBC labeled him the GOAT. I would agree with you on that.
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The push back against Russell's rings isn't the playstyle of that era. It's the extremely low number of teams which increased his chances of winning and the 12 HOFers he played with.
Your arguments against the 90s are about that era's playstyle which is fine when comparing eras but inefficient when comparing individual players. MJ excelled in the era he came up up in better than LBJ did in his era. If you wanna tell yourself that MJ wouldn't have adapted to today's game had he played now, sure keep knocking yourself out, but if your GOAT argument is just another hypothetical that you can't prove, then you've already lost.
MJ and Lebron would be mega stars in any era. Compare what they actually did. Not "what woulda happened if this, this n that, and this was different."
It isn't just playstyle. You conveniently ignore the max contracts and influx of European players as well as the expansion in the 90s. That isn't playstyle. That is league quality. Jordan played in a bigger better league than Russell. James played in a bigger better league than Jordan.
I'm not applying hypothetically. I'm applying context.
See the 6/6 Jordan argument has to discount everything that came before it and assume that the league isbexactlynthe same after to work. Jordan himself said you can't compare eras and yet here his fans go using criteria tailored to Jordan. The argument is silly and stupid to protect a fictitious title.
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That's the thing though. It's not just 6/6.
MJ still has 2 more rings, 2 more Finals MVPs, 1 more MVP, 4 more All D 1st Teams, 1 more DPOY, 3 more Steals Titles, and 9 more Scoring Titles.
That's a HOF career worth of accolades on it's own.Better PPG, BPG, SPG, TOPG, and FT%. T
hat's 5/8 major traditional basketball stats. Not to mention
better career PER, Win Shares Per 48, Box Plus Minus, and VORP for all the new age analytics geeks.
Not to mention that
17 times a teammate made the All Star team with Lebron. MJ only got that 6 times.
These are all facts. Even if one conceded that Lebron "played in a bigger better league" which is a whole other debate in itself, you're gonna need more than that to counter these facts. More than just Lebron playing a long time.