One Last Shot wrote:dhsilv2 wrote:One Last Shot wrote:
I don't understand why some of you insist that Jokic lead his "nobody team" to promised land last playoffs when he's basically playing with someone who's just as good as the Eastern Conference Playoffs MVP for the entire postseason.
Jamal Murray in 2023 Playoffs
26.1 ppg, 7.1 apg, 5.7 rpg, 1.5 spg in 58.6 TS%
Jimmy Butler in 2023 Playoffs
26.9 ppg, 5.9 apg, 6.5 rpg, 1.8 spg in 56.5 TS%
Because one of those guys is an elite defender and the other is a poor one. Because one off guys plays off Jokic and the other doesn't. They aren't remotely close as players.
Jokic won 1 playoffs series in 2 years when Jamal is injured but when he's healthy, Nuggets won 6 playoffs series and an NBA title in the same timespan. Seems like Jokic needs him otherwise he will be swept in the 2nd round of playoffs without him regardless how phenomenal he is. Jamal is a Top 5 player during playoffs in 2020 and 2023 at the very least and I think it's bs that Jokic fans thought his current teammate is thrash.
This is a very bad take. Dirk is the only player I can think of that was able to power through with his 2 or 3 option in street cloths (Caron Butler). Not even LeBron could do it. Turns out when 1/5 of your teams salary is sitting in the stands eating popcorn it's kind of hard to win basketball games against elite competition who are using 100% of their resources.
It's kind of why every year fans hearts shatter when guys like Giannis, Zion, Embiid, and Kawhi all go down, because they know it's just inevitable at that point. And Jokic isn't forcing his way to dominant teams, nor is he teaming up with 2 other MVP candidates like some other stars. When his 2nd option goes down, it actually matters.
And yes, Jokic's leading his team of nobodies. None of these dudes are winning any type of awards. His most distinguished teammate is Aaron Gordon...Who won the dunk competition
No All-NBA, no all-star, No All-Defense, No DPotY, no nothing. Just a bunch of guys who are considered good starters on a good team. Most people wouldn't even consider Jamal a legit #2 and MPJ is a laughable #3 for a championship team.
2nd Options since 2000, or 2nd best player
Murray, Middleton (AS) Davis (ANBA), Lowry (ANBA), Steph/KD (MVP), Kyrie (ANBA), Klay/Green (ANBA), Parker (HOF), Wade (HoF), Tyson Chandler (AS, DpoY) Pau (HoF), Pierce (ANBA)/KG (MVP), Parker/Manu (HoF), Shaq (MVP), Big Ben (DpoY, ANBA), Kobe (MVP)
3rd options Since 2000, or 3rd best player
MPJ, Jrue (AS), Kuzma, Pascal (ANBA), Klay (ANBA), Love (ANBA), Green (ANBA), Kawhii/Manu (ANBA), Bosh (ANBA), Terry (6MotY)/Kidd (MVP), Bynum (ANBA)/Odom (6MoY), Ray Allen (ANBA), Manu (AS), Walker (AS), Sheed (AS), Fisher
4 names on that entire list should stick out to you like a sore thumb. Jamal, MPJ, Kuzma, and DFish...The other two? Only had 2 Top 5 players in the entire league as their 1st and 2nd options
And you DONT want to start going into benches, unless you want to start comparing James Posey, Peja, Dwight, Rondo, Ibaka, and the likes to Braun and Bruce Brown
There are only 3 teams since Jordon that are even comprable to what Jokic has been doing. The 99 Spurs, a veteran team with another GOAT, the 2004 Pistons with 2 HoF the best defender of it's generation and 2 other AS, and Dirks Mavs, who also had the best big man defender of his generation, best 6th man of his generation, a former MVP, and 2 of the more historic All-NBA players of the 2000's
Bro, we can talk about Murray elevating his game all we want, but it changes literally nothing. Rajon Rondo isn't making the HoF because of playoff Rondo. Murray isn't winning MVP's, ANBA, or AS honors for what he does in June...Top to bottom, yes, Jokic last year had the biggest carry job the sport has seen since Timmy in 99.