Post#42 » by OldSchoolNoBull » Sun Apr 28, 2024 9:34 pm
I notice that Bob Davies has four second place votes this round, and I just wanted to look at him vs Hagan a bit. I can understand arguments either way, but I do not think there is a big gap between them. I showed Hagan's league ranks in his prime, and I will show them again now vs Davies' league ranks during his NBA years:
Davies:
1949: #8 PPG, #8 TS Add, #1 APG, RPG unavailable
1950: #15 PPG, #36 TS Add, #4 APG, RPG unavailable
1951: #12 PPG, #16 TS Add, #6 APG, #81 RPG
1952: #5 PPG, #23 TS Add, #4 APG, #78 RPG
1953: #8 PPG,#14 TS Add, #7 APG, #75 RPG
1954: #16 PPG, #19 TS Add, #5 APG, #66 RPG
1955: #23 PPG, #20 TS Add, #7 APG, #70 RPG
Hagan:
1958 - #7 PPG, #5 TS Add, #20 RPG, #20 APG
1959 - #5 PPG, #4 TS Add, #9 RPG, #12 APG
1960 - #5 PPG, #2 TS Add, #10 RPG, #12 APG
1961 - #11 PPG, #9 TS Add, #17 RPG, #9 APG
1962 - #8 PPG, #9 TS Add, #19 RPG, #8 APG
So it looks to me like Hagan has marginal edge in scoring volume and a more significant edge in scoring efficiency and rebounding, while Davies has the clear edge in assists/playmaking.
I also look at how they ranked on their teams during their championship seasons(1951 Royals and 1958 Hawks):
Davies 1950-51(RS / PO)
#1 assists / #1 assists
#2 points / #2 points
#5 rebounds / #5 rebounds
#3 WS / #5 WS
#5 TS% / #8 TS
Hagan 1957-58(RS / PO)
#3 assists / #3 assists
#2 points / #1 points
#3 rebounds / #2 rebounds
#2 WS / #1 WS
#1 TS% / #1 TS
Again, Davies has the clear advantage as a playmaker, but Hagan looks competitive or better elsewhere, especially in the playoffs. And I would add, for context, that Davies wasn't playing next to anyone as good as Bob Pettit, either.
Career playoff composites:
Davies
.148 WS/48 RS, vs .066 WS/48 PO
-3.2% TS playoffs
Hagan
.170 WS/48 RS, .167 WS/48 PO
+0.1% TS playoffs
Last thing, Hagan's WOWY W/L has been a topic of conversation, but in his NBA years, Davies' doesn't look much better.
Hawks were 17-8(.680) without Hagan during his ten years there.
Royals were 11-5(.688) without Davies during his seven years there.
I just don't see a clear statistical argument for Davies over Hagan, and it seems to me that a lot of Davies' case is based on his pre-NBA years(and the championship and MVP he won therein), for which the available statistics are meager, and which only covers a total of 107 additional games(going back to 1945-46, as that's where Doc says consideration begins in the General thread) as opposed to the 462 regular season games he played in the NBA.
But I'm happy to be told why I'm wrong.