Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 1: Post Mortem

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Maxey isn’t better or more impactful than Bam, helluva player though and I’m looking forward to their game tonight. Benefits a lot off playing next to the gravity Joel generates every possession.

Missing out on Maxey honestly might sting more to me than Booker at this point because Maxey was a Wade stan on top of a UK guy. It’s just made too much sense to draft him. Maybe that’s just because it’s more recent though and Maxey is actually a likeable guy while Booker seems like a douche.

I remember arguing with people last summer in here that he was better than Herro.

[Kobewade11]

Does anyone here readily admit their misses? Idk it feels like everyone is batting 1.000

[Hoops3355]

I know a lot of folks in here like Jovic and of course I also see a long term vision with him but for some reason I don't think Spo shares those same feelings. Something tells me he was forced to play him a little more then he liked this year and it was pretty telling during the Boston series that he was just not happy with his play. Would not shock me one bit to see him dealt this offseason as a carrot to make a deal work. I could see a complete collapse in here when it happens. Something along the lines of Winslow dealt to the Grizzlies type of emotional outburst lol

This is wild take. Like you made this up in your head then put it out there. Did anyone agree with you on this? If you look at a little deeper you'd remember he had back spams and often times those don't really work out that well once you cool off and then beyond he's had the knee issue. Basically Spo sees how badly he wants it he wouldn't be wasting his GUY Caron on him if that wasn't the case. You guys paint this picture of Spo like the dude's Darth Vader.

[AirP.]

Trade everyone except JJJ and Jovic.

Ughhh

The next 5-10 years in the lottery and becoming a laughing stock around the league seems like a good idea, eh

Nope. Thats extreme Beenie.

3 years in the lottery max.

This year thru trades.

Next year as we bottom out.

One more year as everyone tries to figure it out.

Then push for FA acquisitions and playoffs.

It worked so well the 3 years before Butler forced his way to Miami, in fact this organization was in such a bad state salary wise you almost couldn't make the Butler force his way to Miami happen.

Miami's been pretty lucky through the years, don't expect to be lucky every few years.

Rebuilding and becoming good in 3-5 years don't always happen.

Look at GS, they thought they were smarter than everyone else and screwed up 3 lottery picks with one of them being the #2 pick in the draft and got basically NOTHING from it.

"We're light years ahead of probably every other team in structure, in planning, in how we're going to go about things," Warriors owner Joe Lacob told the New York Times in 2016, when the Warriors were cruising toward an NBA record 73 wins. "We're going to be a handful for the rest of the NBA to deal with for a long time.”

https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/why-joe-lacob-was-right-about-infamous-warriors-light-years-comment/1374042/

[DayofMourning]

Ughhh

The next 5-10 years in the lottery and becoming a laughing stock around the league seems like a good idea, eh

Nope. Thats extreme Beenie.

3 years in the lottery max.

This year thru trades.

Next year as we bottom out.

One more year as everyone tries to figure it out.

Then push for FA acquisitions and playoffs.

It worked so well the 3 years before Butler forced his way to Miami, in fact this organization was in such a bad state salary wise you almost couldn't make the Butler force his way to Miami happen.

Miami's been pretty lucky through the years, don't expect to be lucky every few years.

Rebuilding and becoming good in 3-5 years doesn't always happen.

Miami didnt attempt a draft rebuild before Butler came. They overpaid all their guys. Similar to what many would be willing to do again despite the obvious MAJOR pitfalls of doing that.

Overpaying and extending Mr. Glass is not an option.

[AirP.]

Nope. Thats extreme Beenie.

3 years in the lottery max.

This year thru trades.

Next year as we bottom out.

One more year as everyone tries to figure it out.

Then push for FA acquisitions and playoffs.

It worked so well the 3 years before Butler forced his way to Miami, in fact this organization was in such a bad state salary wise you almost couldn't make the Butler force his way to Miami happen.

Miami's been pretty lucky through the years, don't expect to be lucky every few years.

Rebuilding and becoming good in 3-5 years doesn't always happen.

Miami didnt attempt a draft rebuild before Butler came. They overpaid all their guys. Similar to what many would be willing to do again despite the obvious MAJOR pitfalls of doing that.

Overpaying and extending Mr. Glass is not an option.

I hope you get your wish. I may even come back to this forum in a few years to see how you think things are going.

It's amazing how often this team overpays meh players but top tier guys, the first hint they're getting old is its abandon ship, time to move on. It's been like this with old man Butler for a lot of posters since Miami was swept in 2021, we need something new and shiny.

[DayofMourning]

I hope you get your wish. I may even come back to this forum in a few years to see how you think things are going.

It's amazing how often this team overpays meh players but top tier guys, the first hint they're getting old is its abandon ship, time to move on. It's been like this with old man Butler for a lot of posters since Miami was swept in 2021, we need something new and shiny.

I think you have to pounce when the timing is right. Next draft has a few legit standouts. When your team is between a rock and a hard place, you make the best moves for long term success, not to placate Jimmy "culture" Butler. Dude just showed us his backside for an entire season at 34 years old and were supposed to extend him? No thanks.

[twix2500]

Nope, what Boston did was get Miami to quit waiting on Herro. It's quite possible with Miami moving on, Butler staying near the same or a little less and Bam's continuing development that Miami may have their best rosters for the next few years since Butler's been in Miami. I happen to believe Butler's work on the 3 ball will help him stay at a high level and take less bumps and bruises until the playoffs.

Next year Miami could just be a starting lineup of Rozier, Robinson, Butler, Jovic and Bam which is much better than what they had this year, it could get even better depending on what Herro package can net Miami.

Richardson will be back for depth, D.Wright should be retained and, in the rotation, Jaquez Jr should be learning from Butler to eventually take his role, Miami probably signs J.Cain for cheap depth since he can't be on a 2-way anymore.

no i agree with lebatard on this one. i have been saying something similar since this playoff debacle was unfolding before our eyes.

yes jimmy HAS TO GO, guy is older and injury prone plus love to coast during the season. the heat cannot longer afford that kind of thinking which has to change for the whole ORG. ppl get season tickets in order to get entertained while watching their team try to win.

dude this season as well as last the teamed has looked mediocre aside from that run in the finals last year.

plus the players have changed too.

duncan is hurt for life with arthritis

tyler herro gets injured often (misses important games bc of it )

jimmy like i said its going to get injured more and its getting older. we already saw that he lost a step this season even when he was healthy

love has heart but he is on its last legs.older too

patti mills is a ghost of himself and getting older too

rozier, was good in charlotte sucked in miami as third or 4 option (role player)

calen martin, is just a role player. you cant ask him to become MJ LOL

jjj is just starting his career (role player)

niko while he has improved in the later part of season, he needs more seasoning (role player)

bam can be decent on defense at times but his offense cant carry anyone. there are times in which he becomes bambi (spo doesnt use him well)

the rest of the cast? pretty much LOL

what you saw is what you get and will get if they run it back. with even worse results

In the next 3 years, I'd rather have Butler on the max to run with Bam than say... any 2-man combination of near the same price of Herro, Rozier or Robinson. I think people are just looking at contract size and not the actual value of those contracts.

All of them are trade peices. The Heat needs to make moves to better position them selves. Contending next year is not important. This is not a one move back in contention situation. If the Heat want to keep Bam that is fine but he is just a complimentary peice for whom ever they find rebuild completely.

[Beenie]

Trade everyone except JJJ and Jovic.

Ughhh

The next 5-10 years in the lottery and becoming a laughing stock around the league seems like a good idea, eh

Nope. Thats extreme Beenie.

3 years in the lottery max.

This year thru trades.

Next year as we bottom out.

One more year as everyone tries to figure it out.

Then push for FA acquisitions and playoffs.

A mere 3 years seems like a pipe dream to me if the idea is to build around Jaquez and Jovic.

Like them both a lot but neither are Michaels.

And the way the culture of free agency operates, it’s a pipe dream to think that a marquee player would sign in Mia without there already being one on the roster to pair with.

To link this thread topic to the Maxie thread topic, had Mia drafted him and then decided to destroy and rebuild the team with him as their centerpiece, your 3 year window prediction would seem more realistic.

[AirP.]

In the next 3 years, I'd rather have Butler on the max to run with Bam than say... any 2-man combination of near the same price of Herro, Rozier or Robinson. I think people are just looking at contract size and not the actual value of those contracts.

All of them are trade peices. The Heat needs to make moves to better position them selves. Contending next year is not important. This is not a one move back in contention situation. If the Heat want to keep Bam that is fine but he is just a complimentary peice for whom ever they find rebuild completely.

Bam's a couple months away from 27, how long are you willing to tread water in hopes of finding that new #1 and by the time you find a new #1 how long is the Bam window as an undersized center who relies on athletic ability? Don't get me wrong, he can be a good player for a long time but he's not going to be able to handle the same workload much into his 30s.

I don't get this idea of just being a middle of the road team until a #1 option magically lands your lap, it could take half a decade, it could take longer since Miami rarely tanks. If it wasn't all that difficult why didn't Miami find another one in the last 5 years to help get this team a championship? It seems like they tried but were unsuccessful, so why would the next x years be any different?

[SoFlaKingReal]

The Heat are not trading Herro for the simple reason that no other team wants him. They are stuck with Herro and that contract. Truth sucks, but it’s still the reality of the situation.

[AirP.]

Ughhh

The next 5-10 years in the lottery and becoming a laughing stock around the league seems like a good idea, eh

Spoiler:

Nope. Thats extreme Beenie.

3 years in the lottery max.

This year thru trades.

Next year as we bottom out.

One more year as everyone tries to figure it out.

Then push for FA acquisitions and playoffs.

A mere 3 years seems like a pipe dream to me if the idea is to build around Jaquez and Jovic.

Like them both a lot but neither are Michaels.

And the way the culture of free agency operates, it’s a pipe dream to think that a marquee player would sign in Mia without there already being one on the roster to pair with.

To link this thread topic to the Maxie thread topic, had Mia drafted him and then decided to destroy and rebuild the team with him as their centerpiece, your 3 year window prediction would seem more realistic.

Probably wouldn't have to even consider rebuilding had they drafted Maxie.

[DayofMourning]

A mere 3 years seems like a pipe dream to me if the idea is to build around Jaquez and Jovic.

Like them both a lot but neither are Michaels.

And the way the culture of free agency operates, it’s a pipe dream to think that a marquee player would sign in Mia without there already being one on the roster to pair with.

To link this thread topic to the Maxie thread topic, had Mia drafted him and then decided to destroy and rebuild the team with him as their centerpiece, your 3 year window prediction would seem more realistic.

Not building around JJJ and Jovic. The bottoming out plan would line us up nicely with the next years draft studs-Dylan Harper, Ace Bailey, Cooper Flagg. Those are the 3 youd want as center pieces. Build around them.

[ZoStrong]

Read on Twitter

UD says Tyler’s best role is 6th man because the chemistry with Duncan is better with the starters, as I’ve been saying for years

OMG, they using UD to push what's coming in the future, he would not have said anything about roles unless this was given to him by the FO and Coaching staff.

I got it, Jimmy gonna get his extension here soon. Tyler coming off the bench, Miami will make JJJ a starter, and well just keep trucking along, Got it.

Don't u know the plan is drafting another old rookie PG who will make Bill Simmons cry again, "How does Miami keep doing this?!!"

[AirP.]

The Heat are not trading Herro for the simple reason that no other team wants him. They are stuck with Herro and that contract. Truth sucks, but it’s still the reality of the situation.

Someone will trade for him, the question is what kind of package are they willing to give up. Chicago might be willing to do a package centered around Herro and LaVine. I would think Brooklyn would give Miami B.Simmon's expiring contract to take a flyer on Herro. These are probably worst case scenarios although LaVine probably could help Miami's offensive issues with 3 of his last 4 years having a TS% over .600.

[SoFlaKingReal]

It may not be wise to change for the sake of change, but I can’t go through another season like this one. They were stomped on against good teams and scoring 110 felt like a miracle.

Exhaust all possible moves, but the worst option is “running it back”.

If that means that are forced to trade Butler for younger pieces, then so be it.

[SoFlaKingReal]

The Heat are not trading Herro for the simple reason that no other team wants him. They are stuck with Herro and that contract. Truth sucks, but it’s still the reality of the situation.

Someone will trade for him, the question is what kind of package are they willing to give up. Chicago might be willing to do a package centered around Herro and LaVine. I would think Brooklyn would give Miami B.Simmon's expiring contract to take a flyer on Herro. These are probably worst case scenarios although LaVine probably could help Miami's offensive issues with 3 of his last 4 years having a TS% over .600.

I doubt it, other teams see the same games we do. Herro is not good. He isn’t worth half the contract the Heat handed him. Whatever he brings on offense, which is inconsistent at best, is completely negated and then some with his turnstile defense.

Overpaid, physically limited, injury prone….not a good recipe.

[ZoStrong]

The Heat are not trading Herro for the simple reason that no other team wants him. They are stuck with Herro and that contract. Truth sucks, but it’s still the reality of the situation.

Lol, EVERYONE gets traded in this league! The question is what kinda value u gonna get in return. Sometimes it's addition by subtraction n you don't care about the return n just move on

[AirP.]

I found this interesting from the playoffs, all the players who averaged 10+ FGA sorted by TS%, Jaquez Jr is 2nd to last right in front of B.Ingram. Not surpisingly, D.White is #1 at .743 TS%.

Out of 53 players this playoffs with 10+ FGA ranked by TS%...
#40 Bam .532
#44 Herro .515
#52 Jaquez Jr .463

All of these much better then 2021 Playoff's Jimmy Butler who had a TS% of .394.

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

+------------------------+----+-----+----+-----+----+----+---+---+-----+-----+-----+
|Player                  |Team|Games|MPG |TSPCT|FGA |PPG |APG|TOV|2PT% |3pt% |FT%  |
+------------------------+----+-----+----+-----+----+----+---+---+-----+-----+-----+
|Derrick White           |BOS |5    |34  |0.743|14.2|22.4|3.2|1.2|0.741|0.477|0.9  |
|Michael Porter Jr.      |DEN |5    |39.4|0.698|15.2|22.8|1.2|1  |0.629|0.488|0.769|
|Karl-Anthony Towns      |MIN |4    |28.3|0.676|12.3|19.3|2.5|1.8|0.531|0.529|0.889|
|Nikola Jokić            |DEN |5    |40.4|0.672|18.6|28.2|9.8|3.2|0.653|0.333|0.926|
|Anthony Davis           |LAL |5    |41.6|0.665|18.6|27.8|4  |2.2|0.67 |0    |0.808|
|Devin Booker            |PHO |4    |41.5|0.662|16.3|27.5|6  |2.8|0.556|0.35 |0.951|
|James Harden            |LAC |5    |39.6|0.661|14.6|22.2|7  |2.6|0.531|0.439|0.92 |
|Brook Lopez             |MIL |5    |33.8|0.655|12.6|17.2|2  |1.4|0.643|0.476|0.333|
|Kevin Durant            |PHO |4    |42  |0.653|16.8|26.8|3.3|2.5|0.582|0.417|0.824|
|Anthony Edwards         |MIN |4    |39.5|0.648|20.5|31  |6.3|4  |0.56 |0.438|0.839|
|LeBron James            |LAL |5    |40.8|0.637|19.8|27.8|8.8|3.8|0.63 |0.385|0.739|
|Kyrie Irving            |DAL |5    |39.4|0.634|18.4|25.8|4.8|2.6|0.558|0.425|0.909|
|Myles Turner            |IND |5    |35.4|0.63 |15.8|22  |3.2|0.4|0.537|0.474|0.632|
|Damian Lillard          |MIL |3    |40.7|0.627|21.7|32.3|5.3|2  |0.379|0.444|0.964|
|Ivica Zubac             |LAC |5    |31  |0.622|11.8|16  |1  |1.4|0.61 |0    |0.667|
|Tyrese Maxey            |PHI |5    |45  |0.62 |24  |32.4|7.2|2.4|0.549|0.429|0.875|
|Khris Middleton         |MIL |5    |38.4|0.599|19.8|26.8|5  |2.2|0.542|0.37 |0.897|
|Jalen Williams          |OKC |4    |37  |0.594|17  |21.3|5  |3  |0.58 |0.389|0.75 |
|Franz Wagner            |ORL |5    |36.6|0.59 |14.4|20  |4.6|1.6|0.542|0.333|0.828|
|Austin Reaves           |LAL |5    |34.8|0.589|12.6|16.8|3.6|0.8|0.622|0.269|0.895|
|Jonas Valančiūnas       |NOP |4    |22.5|0.586|10.5|14.5|1.3|2.5|0.537|0    |0.824|
|OG Anunoby              |NYK |5    |40.8|0.584|11.8|14.2|0.6|1.4|0.625|0.316|0.75 |
|Aaron Gordon            |DEN |5    |40.2|0.583|10.6|13.8|4.6|1.8|0.628|0.1  |0.857|
|Joel Embiid             |PHI |5    |41.6|0.582|21.6|31.8|6.4|4  |0.486|0.324|0.831|
|Paul George             |LAC |5    |36  |0.574|15.4|19.8|4.8|2.4|0.447|0.41 |0.81 |
|Chet Holmgren           |OKC |4    |32.3|0.574|11.8|15.3|2.3|2.3|0.625|0.304|0.714|
|Darius Garland          |CLE |5    |33.2|0.568|11.8|14.2|5.8|2.8|0.469|0.444|0.625|
|Jalen Suggs             |ORL |5    |31.4|0.566|10.6|14.2|3  |2.2|0.643|0.24 |0.773|
|Jaylen Brown            |BOS |5    |34  |0.565|18.4|22.8|2.2|3.2|0.609|0.321|0.45 |
|Jayson Tatum            |BOS |5    |38  |0.563|15.4|21.8|5.4|1.8|0.5  |0.29 |0.8  |
|Paolo Banchero          |ORL |5    |35.6|0.562|20.2|24.8|4.4|4.8|0.528|0.379|0.714|
|Herbert Jones           |NOP |4    |35.3|0.562|10.3|13  |2.5|2.8|0.471|0.333|1    |
|Pascal Siakam           |IND |5    |38.4|0.561|18.2|23  |4.2|0.4|0.611|0.263|0.462|
|Nickeil Alexander-Walker|MIN |4    |31  |0.561|10.3|12.3|4  |0.8|0.615|0.321|1    |
|Shai Gilgeous-Alexander |OKC |4    |37.8|0.553|21  |27.3|5  |2.5|0.522|0.294|0.727|
|Tyrese Haliburton       |IND |5    |37.2|0.551|13.8|15.8|9.2|2.8|0.64 |0.318|0.833|
|Evan Mobley             |CLE |5    |32.4|0.542|11.6|14.2|2.2|1.2|0.532|0.273|0.706|
|Bradley Beal            |PHO |4    |38.5|0.539|14.8|16.5|4.5|3.3|0.444|0.435|0.8  |
|Josh Hart               |NYK |5    |46.4|0.532|13.6|17  |4  |2.2|0.389|0.406|0.667|
|Bam Adebayo             |MIA |5    |38.4|0.532|19.4|22.6|3.8|1.6|0.529|0.2  |0.714|
|Luka Dončić             |DAL |5    |42.4|0.529|25.4|30.2|8.8|3.4|0.543|0.263|0.833|
|Donovan Mitchell        |CLE |5    |35  |0.517|19.2|22.4|4.4|3.8|0.525|0.229|0.857|
|Bobby Portis            |MIL |5    |30.2|0.515|14.8|15.8|0.8|1.4|0.54 |0.182|0.833|
|Tyler Herro             |MIA |5    |37  |0.51 |15.6|16.8|5.4|2.8|0.429|0.349|0.9  |
|Jalen Brunson           |NYK |5    |43.8|0.51 |29.6|34.4|8.4|3  |0.464|0.289|0.787|
|Mike Conley             |MIN |4    |31.8|0.483|11.5|11.8|6.3|2  |0.375|0.364|0.833|
|DAngelo Russell         |LAL |5    |37  |0.481|14.6|14.2|4.2|1.8|0.483|0.318|0.5  |
|Trey Murphy III         |NOP |4    |42  |0.479|12  |11.5|2.3|2  |0.444|0.333|0    |
|CJ McCollum             |NOP |4    |37  |0.474|18.5|17.8|4.8|4  |0.533|0.241|1    |
|Kawhi Leonard           |LAC |2    |29.5|0.474|12  |12  |2  |2  |0.579|0    |0.667|
|Jamal Murray            |DEN |5    |39.8|0.468|24  |23.6|7.2|2.4|0.442|0.294|0.857|
|Jaime Jaquez Jr.        |MIA |4    |30.8|0.463|13  |12.8|3  |1.8|0.462|0.231|0.857|
|Brandon Ingram          |NOP |4    |36.3|0.45 |13.8|14.3|3.3|2.3|0.362|0.25 |0.895|
+------------------------+----+-----+----+-----+----+----+---+---+-----+-----+-----+

[SoFlaKingReal]

The Heat are not trading Herro for the simple reason that no other team wants him. They are stuck with Herro and that contract. Truth sucks, but it’s still the reality of the situation.

Lol, EVERYONE gets traded in this league! The question is what kinda value u gonna get in return. Sometimes it's addition by subtraction n you don't care about the return n just move on

I’ll believe it when I see it.