westbricc wrote:where did this anti-edwards campaign from thunder fans come from?
Fear
Moderators: cupcakesnake, infinite11285, Dirk, Harry Garris, ken6199, zimpy27, bwgood77, bisme37, KingDavid, Domejandro
westbricc wrote:where did this anti-edwards campaign from thunder fans come from?
KembaWalker wrote:Spreadsheet enthusiasts in shambles
Eye testers win again
KembaWalker wrote:Spreadsheet enthusiasts in shambles
Eye testers win again
westbricc wrote:where did this anti-edwards campaign from thunder fans come from?
An Unbiased Fan wrote:Spreadsheet crowd will try to criticize him regardless like they did with Kobe
ShootersShoot wrote:TimberKat wrote:OkcSinceSGA wrote:Face of the league. Superstar. Best SG in the league. Things I’m seeing a lot right now. He’s basically the league darling right now. People talk about him like he’s the next Jordan. You even have insane people trying to partake in revisionist history and saying he’s in the same tier this season as Luka and SGA.
But something I find odd is he’s not well liked by impact metrics. SGA and Luka for example are .250-.270 WS/48 players which is HOF/MVP tier. Ant is at .130, which is literally not even all star tier basically. Normally players at that level are high end starters, to low end all stars. .100 is a league average player, .150 area is typically an all star, .200 is a superstar, .250-.300 is usually a first ballot HOF/Multiple time MVP (guys like MJ, Jokic, Wilt, LeBron, KG etc).
EPM has SGA and Luka at #2 and #3 for example with 8.8 and 7.9. Edwards is at 4.2 which is ranked 22nd in the league after guys like FVV. Why is his hype/reputation so much better than his impact metrics?
What metrics are we talking about here? EPM? Could someone even explain what that metric trying to say and how they arrive at it? Why is Hartenstein rank 14 ahead of Tatum, Lillard, Fox, and Davis? How do you explain Ant rank 22, Gobert at 44, and Towns at 50 managed to have the 3rd best record in the Western conference just one game behind OKC? If your metric is telling you Ant is closer to Jalen William instead of SGA, it's time to look for something else.
We all know Ant is a work in progress with super physique. He has gotten much better as the season progress until the incredible performance in the playoffs. His 3pt shooting took a deep dive after dislocating his figure on a dunk. Also general bang up the last couple months. You can see the trend in the game logs. Look at the season as a whole, he is a top 20 player with the potential to be top 10 (or top 5) next year.
So if you want to build around Hartenstein, I am sure the NYK will be willing to trade him to OKC for Holmgren + 2 1st. I will stick with building around the low EPM Ant.
If a metric is saying FVV is ranked higher than edwards, would the correct question be why is edwards less impactful than FVV, or should the question be is this stat or metric flawed to the point where it would rank fvv higher than edwards?
tsherkin wrote:KembaWalker wrote:Spreadsheet enthusiasts in shambles
Eye testers win again
Not really?
His postseason impact metrics match the eye test. It's really his sustainability over a RS which has been the question, and what he might look like over an extended postseason run. First game against Denver certainly looked great, though.
Hobo4President wrote:His impact metrics aren't poor, he just doesn't play as well in the regular season as he does in the playoffs. In the regular season he had a +5.5 +/- and a net on/off of +2.8. In the playoffs that's jumped to a +/- of +14 and a net on/off of +10.6. We see the same with his advanced and his raw box stats, they improve in the playoffs and they have every year he has made the playoffs.
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:tsherkin wrote:KembaWalker wrote:Spreadsheet enthusiasts in shambles
Eye testers win again
Not really?
His postseason impact metrics match the eye test. It's really his sustainability over a RS which has been the question, and what he might look like over an extended postseason run. First game against Denver certainly looked great, though.
Don’t try to bring in nuance it’s going to hurt some heads.
zimpy27 wrote:Makes one wonder if he doesn't care much about the RS.. it's not really explainable why he'd be much better in the postseason.
zimpy27 wrote:Hobo4President wrote:His impact metrics aren't poor, he just doesn't play as well in the regular season as he does in the playoffs. In the regular season he had a +5.5 +/- and a net on/off of +2.8. In the playoffs that's jumped to a +/- of +14 and a net on/off of +10.6. We see the same with his advanced and his raw box stats, they improve in the playoffs and they have every year he has made the playoffs.
Makes one wonder if he doesn't care much about the RS.. it's not really explainable why he'd be much better in the postseason.
thinktank wrote:
LOL. The Ant haters aren’t the ones bringing nuance.
The nuance is that Ant has a completely different gear to shift into when it matters.
We’ve been saying that, and Ant has been showing it, ever since he got into the playoffs.
You either understand that or you don’t.
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:Don’t try to bring in nuance it’s going to hurt some heads.
Baseline81 wrote:zimpy27 wrote:Makes one wonder if he doesn't care much about the RS.. it's not really explainable why he'd be much better in the postseason.
Several Minnesota posters have already pointed this out. He coasts in the regular season, "getting up" for certain matchups and then against lesser opponents "plays down." We'll see if this continues in the future...
With that said, it doesn't negate Edwards being one of the best players in the game, and why the national media has been behind the 8-ball and only now trying to catch up.
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:tsherkin wrote:KembaWalker wrote:Spreadsheet enthusiasts in shambles
Eye testers win again
Not really?
His postseason impact metrics match the eye test. It's really his sustainability over a RS which has been the question, and what he might look like over an extended postseason run. First game against Denver certainly looked great, though.
Don’t try to bring in nuance it’s going to hurt some heads.
OkcSinceSGA wrote:Face of the league. Superstar. Best SG in the league. Things I’m seeing a lot right now. He’s basically the league darling right now. People talk about him like he’s the next Jordan. You even have insane people trying to partake in revisionist history and saying he’s in the same tier this season as Luka and SGA.
But something I find odd is he’s not well liked by impact metrics. SGA and Luka for example are .250-.270 WS/48 players which is HOF/MVP tier. Ant is at .130, which is literally not even all star tier basically. Normally players at that level are high end starters, to low end all stars. .100 is a league average player, .150 area is typically an all star, .200 is a superstar, .250-.300 is usually a first ballot HOF/Multiple time MVP (guys like MJ, Jokic, Wilt, LeBron, KG etc).
EPM has SGA and Luka at #2 and #3 for example with 8.8 and 7.9. Edwards is at 4.2 which is ranked 22nd in the league after guys like FVV. Why is his hype/reputation so much better than his impact metrics?
thelead wrote:I have a memory like an elephant.
KembaWalker wrote: lol @ the RealGM spreadsheet brigade being the ones to offer nuance or hurt heads. Literally anyone can sort a spreadsheet with 2 minutes of training or pick a higher number from a list. In 50 years someone future RealGM PC board guy will be like “Ants BPM was lower than Fred Van Vleet, are we sure this guy was even good??” They do it to Kobe now, all day, every day