Jokic is not the best in the world, and has been heavily overrated (NOW YOU CAN CHANGE VOTES)

[Johnny Firpo]

I see the balancing out of creating jokic is the best player since Jordan threads during the lakers series. I ain't mad at you OP.

Yeah, except the two threads are nowhere near remotely similar in their ridiculousness. Joker will be a 3-time MVP this week, who had a dominant playoff run last year, going up against an NBA record of all-defense and all-NBA players during the run, while dominating all kinds of stats within a 3 year period. So while if you don't think that he is the best player since MJ is an okay opinion to have, that question is nowhere near as bad as this thread. And if you think it is the same, you obviously don't like the guy.

[Special_Puppy]

You guys need to chill out with the Jokic slander. I really don't want to see the Wolves suffer a backdoor sweep (I'm pulling for them to finally have some success) and you're tempting the basketball gods.

Zero chance, Denver is cooked now.

Could be, but I've seen it before. Miami looked totally outmatched down 2-0 in the 2006 Finals but turned things around on a dime. I'll exhale after the 4th win.

If Murray is absolutely cooked due to injuries then coming back is basically impossible

[KGtabake]

I've been saying this since his first mvp. He's an incredible system player, but he lacks competitive fire and toughness to be an ATG player. His MVP as a 6 seed will be locked at as THE worst mvp season in history. It'll make the Rose and Nash wins seem unanimous.

Jokic is a guy that needs a superstar like Murray to make his game work. He can't take over without that second punch on the perimeter the way other ATGs could. Now that Murray has been exposed, so has Jokic. What's funny is that those really watching told you this year's ago when he only got the sixth seed without him.

To me he is the third best player in the NBA - Luka and Embiid are comfortably ahead of him. Last year he took advantage of an injured field, and a weakened conference in a transition year. He had Murray playing like a superstar and to his credit got it done. But his awards don't match his greatness and in a few years everyone will come around to what I'm saying here right now.

I would have accepted a post in which you state that Giannis is better than Jokic.
Not that i would necessarily agree but i could understand.
But.... Embiid?
Name one reason why Embiid is better than Giannis for example.
One accomplishment.
Giannis has 1 ring, 1 FMVP, 2 MVPs, 1DPOY, 1 all-star MVP, he's been all star captain multiple times, he's been all star multiple times, all NBA first team multiple times, all defense first multiple times. He has even a minor award like the MIP.

Embiid has 1 MVP. He has never reached a conference finals.
How can someone say that he's comfortably ahead of guys like Jokic or Giannis really amazes me.
Do you guys watch the league in the last 6-7 seasons?
Are you sure?

To me, this is clearly a hate thread against Jokic.
The Embiid reference sealed it.

[AleksandarN]

I've been saying this since his first mvp. He's an incredible system player, but he lacks competitive fire and toughness to be an ATG player. His MVP as a 6 seed will be locked at as THE worst mvp season in history. It'll make the Rose and Nash wins seem unanimous.

Jokic is a guy that needs a superstar like Murray to make his game work. He can't take over without that second punch on the perimeter the way other ATGs could. Now that Murray has been exposed, so has Jokic. What's funny is that those really watching told you this year's ago when he only got the sixth seed without him.

To me he is the third best player in the NBA - Luka and Embiid are comfortably ahead of him. Last year he took advantage of an injured field, and a weakened conference in a transition year. He had Murray playing like a superstar and to his credit got it done. But his awards don't match his greatness and in a few years everyone will come around to what I'm saying here right now.

Embiid lmao.

[DimesandKnicks]

yes, he’s literally Steve Nash at Center. Engine of an offense, but you can’t call him the best in the world when 50% of the game is on defense.

That part

[DimesandKnicks]

yes, he’s literally Steve Nash at Center. Engine of an offense, but you can’t call him the best in the world when 50% of the game is on defense.

That part

[sp6r=underrated]

I'm not sure if this is a troll, but

Jokic is a guy that needs a superstar like Murray to make his game work.

How many superstars are there in the NBA? 50

He's an incredible system player, but he lacks competitive fire and toughness to be an ATG player.

I'm a huge Duncan fan. I really don't see any evidence that Jokic has less competitive fire or toughness than Duncan did. And I'm certain his mean streak is much worse.

It'll make the Rose and Nash wins seem unanimous

There is no world in which Derrick Rose's MVP ages better than Jokic's MVPs. Rose won an MVP on a team that won through defense and he wasn't even the driver of that defense.

The system is constant motion with elite athletes and finishers, where Jokic just has to pass the ball for them to complete the play.

Why don't more teams run this "system" if it is so easy to work?

[fansse]

Ohhhh RealGM won’t like that

[Boardbreaker]

Strong copium from the embiid stans

[NoDopeOnSundays]

There were 2 threads asking if he was better than LeBron while the other one had Jordan in the title. Posters on here had him in their top 10 already, some were saying top 5, so yes, he was overrated here.

[SweaterBae]

omfg

[Jabroni Lames]

Jokic plays in the much more competitive era than MJ, for example. It's much harder to dominate because there's a huge increase in the talent pool of elite and very good international players, that didn't exist back in MJ's time. Plus, the pool of American talent hasn't gone anywhere.

Imagine replacing the trash international players that Jordan had to compete against, with: Giannis, Jokic, Luka, Shai, Embiid, Siakam, Gobert, OG, Brooks, Murray, Markkanen, Porzingis, Sengun, Bogi, etc..., while keeping the American competition (Bird, Hakeem, Malone, Ewing, Barkley, etc....) the same.

MJ would win a hell of a lot less consistently (like every other star today).

Parity is the side effect of today's increase in talent pool. It's pretty straightforward math & logic.

[dickfox]

Clown-take. You clearly don't watch games.

Turn in your keyboard and your login.

[hardenASG13]

I see the balancing out of creating jokic is the best player since Jordan threads during the lakers series. I ain't mad at you OP.

Yeah, except the two threads are nowhere near remotely similar in their ridiculousness. Joker will be a 3-time MVP this week, who had a dominant playoff run last year, going up against an NBA record of all-defense and all-NBA players during the run, while dominating all kinds of stats within a 3 year period. So while if you don't think that he is the best player since MJ is an okay opinion to have, that question is nowhere near as bad as this thread. And if you think it is the same, you obviously don't like the guy.

It's just clear in watching him that he isn't, and never has been on the level of prime MJ/Lebron/Shaq. There really isn't anything more to say. He just lacks in so many areas (leadership, defense, endurance, Signature series wins) to be included in such discussions. Stats are out of control these days, comparing them across generations isn't fair. I think his abilities as a passer have been greatly over rated, as his assist numbers are correlated with guys continually cutting off him for DHOs. Not to say he isn't a great passer. But he's not aggressively breaking down a defense or attacking quickly enough to control the defense and get good shots for his teammates.

He's obviously a very good player, but his best playoff series win was vs. the bubble clippers, a group that has accomplished nothing. If they end up losing to Minnesota, the ridiculousness in many of the threads created about him this season, based on last year's easy run, will be at comical levels. People here have a set a really, really high bar for him based on beating 4 mediocre teams.

[UglyBugBall]

I've been saying this since his first mvp. He's an incredible system player, but he lacks competitive fire and toughness to be an ATG player. His MVP as a 6 seed will be locked at as THE worst mvp season in history. It'll make the Rose and Nash wins seem unanimous.

Jokic is a guy that needs a superstar like Murray to make his game work. He can't take over without that second punch on the perimeter the way other ATGs could. Now that Murray has been exposed, so has Jokic. What's funny is that those really watching told you this year's ago when he only got the sixth seed without him.

To me he is the third best player in the NBA - Luka and Embiid are comfortably ahead of him. Last year he took advantage of an injured field, and a weakened conference in a transition year. He had Murray playing like a superstar and to his credit got it done. But his awards don't match his greatness and in a few years everyone will come around to what I'm saying here right now.

I would have accepted a post in which you state that Giannis is better than Jokic.
Not that i would necessarily agree but i could understand.
But.... Embiid?
Name one reason why Embiid is better than Giannis for example.
One accomplishment.
Giannis has 1 ring, 1 FMVP, 2 MVPs, 1DPOY, 1 all-star MVP, he's been all star captain multiple times, he's been all star multiple times, all NBA first team multiple times, all defense first multiple times. He has even a minor award like the MIP.

Embiid has 1 MVP. He has never reached a conference finals.
How can someone say that he's comfortably ahead of guys like Jokic or Giannis really amazes me.
Do you guys watch the league in the last 6-7 seasons?
Are you sure?

To me, this is clearly a hate thread against Jokic.
The Embiid reference sealed it.

You're just listing accomplishments. Embiid doesn't have any because he is always injured. When he is healthy he is better than both those guys. He's a better defender and better scorer.

[UglyBugBall]

I'm not sure if this is a troll, but

Jokic is a guy that needs a superstar like Murray to make his game work.

How many superstars are there in the NBA? 50

He's an incredible system player, but he lacks competitive fire and toughness to be an ATG player.

I'm a huge Duncan fan. I really don't see any evidence that Jokic has less competitive fire or toughness than Duncan did. And I'm certain his mean streak is much worse.

It'll make the Rose and Nash wins seem unanimous

There is no world in which Derrick Rose's MVP ages better than Jokic's MVPs. Rose won an MVP on a team that won through defense and he wasn't even the driver of that defense.

The system is constant motion with elite athletes and finishers, where Jokic just has to pass the ball for them to complete the play.

Why don't more teams run this "system" if it is so easy to work?

At least Rose was the number 1 seed, regardless of what drove that record. Jokic drove his team to the....6th seed? LOL

[GeorgeSears]

Don't count your chickens yet. Mavs might not get past the OKC, and if they do, they'll have Minnesota waiting for them.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Zero chance, Denver is cooked now.

Could be, but I've seen it before. Miami looked totally outmatched down 2-0 in the 2006 Finals but turned things around on a dime. I'll exhale after the 4th win.

If Murray is absolutely cooked due to injuries then coming back is basically impossible

It's not just injuries, Murray averaged 17ppg against the Wolves during the season. He may not be 100% but NAW, Edwards and especially McDaniels are giving him fits and were doing it during the season.

[Raps in 4]

To me he is the third best player in the NBA - Luka and Embiid are comfortably ahead of him.

Teammates Embiid has played with:

25 All-Star selections
14 All-NBA selections
1 MVP

Titles: 0
ECF appearances: 0

Teammates Jokic has played with:

0 All-Star selections
0 All-NBA selections
0 MVPs

Titles: 1
WCF appearances: 2

[bledredwine]

Jokic is the best in the world, but every current best player is overrated. That's how the NBA has always been.

Kobe was, Lebron was, and now Jokic will be. If you were around, MJ was larger than life during his playing days, like the Beatles. That's just how it is.

That said I will not allow fans to make me enjoy Jokic, Wemby or ANT less, don't care what they say.

Jokic also looks very tired. He needs to take his conditioning seriously this summer. I think that he chilled out after the championship. Repeating is a very difficult task. Each consecutive year it gets tougher.

The "I don't care about basketball, I just win" mentality won't work.

If Jokic gets booted out of the playoffs? Watch out, because we're in for a treat next year.
Jokic will come in in strong, ripped shape for the first time, ANT will be peaking, Wemby will stronger, Giannis and Luka will be back. It's going to be a damned bloodbath.