HotRocks34 wrote:NZB2323 wrote:I'd be fine with Jokic at 15.
I'd certainly have Dwayne Wade over Isiah Thomas.
Championships
Wade 3
Thomas 2
All-NBA teams
Wade 7
Thomas 5
All defensive teams
Wade 3
Thomas 0
PER
Wade 23.5
Thomas 18.1
VORP
Wade 62.8
Thomas 41.59
WS
Wade 120.7
Thomas 80.7
Playoff PER
Wade 22.4
Thomas 19.8
Playoff VORP
Wade 12.3
Thomas 8.5
Playoff WS
Wade 21.6
Thomas 12.5
And if we compare playoff runs when they won Finals MVP it isn't very close
Wade 28, 6, and 6, 59.3 TS%, 26.9 PER
Thomas 21, 8, and 6, 56 TS%, 21 PER
Wade was considered the best player in the world after the 2006 Finals. Thomas was never considered the best player in the world. Wade finished top 3 in MVP voting in 2009, something Thomas never did. Wade was top 10 in MVP voting 7 times; Isiah Thomas was top 10 in MVP voting 4 times.
I'd also have Hakeem and Shaq ahead of West and Oscar. And I'd have Ewing over Pippen.
I know Pippen has more championships, but Pippen got to play with Jordan(And Rodman or Horace Grant), and Ewing got to play with John Starks. And we saw what happened when they met and Pippen didn't have Jordan.
GmSc isn't a perfect stat, but it shows that Ewing was clearly better than Pippen in the 1994 series, and he got less help.
Ewing: 18.7
Pippen: 15.6
Grant: 16.2
Armstrong: 12.7
Oakley: 12.1
Starks: 9.8
And that doesn't even take into account Kukoc hitting the game-winning shot while Pippen refused to go into the game.
And I'd have Kareem over Russell.
Excellent write up and I am with you on everything.
Wade > Isaiah
Hakeem, Shaq > Oscar, West
Kareem > Russell
Ewing > Pippen
Isaiah was a bad dude but yeah Wade is better.
I know that the pyramid may be more about careers than talent, but talent matters.
Simmons is a Boston homer so that explains Russell. Even though Bill is of course a great player. But Kareem was a great two way player, at least early in his career.
I didn't see West or Oscar play and I have huge respect for them. But Peak Hakeem and MDE Shaq were two of the most dominant two way forces in league history. If Simmons wants to argue careers there, ok. Maybe.
Ewing without a doubt was a better player than Pippen. Sure one could argue for Pippen 's career but he played with MJ and Ewing didn't.
How on earth is Wade better than Isiah Thomas? What planet you on?
Thomas was the best player on a back-to-back title team and had to play against Larry Bird, Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan in his prime.
In fact, Thomas owned Jordan until 1991.
Wade was never the best player on a title team.
Think like this. Who was the last team to beat the Jordan Bulls in a playoff series?
Pistons tortured them in 88,89,90.
Jordan won 91, 92, 93 took 1 3/4 years off and lost when he came back.
But once Jordan reconstituted the Bulls again, they went and won 3 straight after.
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