The (way too early) 2024 Draft thread. Woo! Tanking!

[DCZards]

:lol: Will there be a run on grabbing centers in this draft as every team tries to have their own twin towers like Minny? Yes Minny crushed w/o Rudy
, still…

…or a run on perimeter defenders like Alexander-Walker and McDaniels. Think Stephon Castle…who will likely be better than both of them.

But Alexander-Walker & McDaniels would simply be JAGs on any other team. Only reason where focusing on them is because what Minny is doing to Denver right now.

Not true for me. I posted this yesterday on this thread.

Watching Jalen Suggs (defending Mitchell), Lu Dort (defending Ingram), and OG Anunoby (defending everybody) impact the game makes me value Castle and his outstanding D even more.

My focus is often on exceptional D...wanted the Zards to draft Kawhi and said so back then. Defense is the reason I'd take Sarr at #1.

Castle, Bilal & Deni plus a C? That sounds like the cast from "The Bricklayer" movie.

A 6’6, high IQ, poised, elite defender who handles and passes well, like Castle, would be a great fit next to Poole… as well as Kispert.

And, when you need to sit either Poole or Kispert and emphasize D, a defensive perimeter of Bilal, Deni and Castle would be absolutely awesome.

[NatP4]

Now we have Jokic playing a high post point center. Then it was still rare in Europe, but missing from the NBA. Not until the small ball death line of the GSW championships did we see it as the keystone of a team. Draymond running things from above the FT line, skilled players at all positions, offense run from the top of the key, empty front court, players in motion everywhere. We'd seen it before in snatches: Spain won with that style in FIBA and Olympic play. Pops implemented some with the Duncan/Kawhi/Boris Diaw Spurs. And Pau Gasol naturally brought some of it with him. It is one of the reason why NBA scouts love players coming from the Serbian systems, they require players at all positions to be able to do everything, shoot, pass, rebound, etc. I'm not against the ABA as a feeder league for that young talent. I appreciate the skill level, even if I doubt the talent.

The Jokic that played in the ABA with the same developmental club as Topic?

I corrected my initial statement to: the ACB is a higher level of competition than the ABA, but not by much. The ABA is an underrated league, and again, you have to factor in the fact that Topic played on a developmental team full of 18/19/20/21 year olds. They have 2 players on the roster that are over the age of 22.

The most impressive moments of the year for Topic were the games against his current club, Crvena, and against Partizan. Crvena features 7 former NBA 2nd round picks, and 2 former 1st round picks, as well as Milos Teodosic who played a couple of seasons with the Clippers recently. 9 former NBA draft picks going against a bunch of 19 year olds, Topic puts up 21-5-5 carries the team to a competitive finish.

Partizan features 5 former NBA 2nd round picks(including our own, Vukcevic), and 2 former 1st round picks. Topic actually carried Mega to a win.

The rest of the league is obviously meh, but that’s very much the case in the ACB outside of Barca/Madrid. Take the 4th place finisher in the ACB, Valencia. 3 formers 2nd round picks, 2 former 1st round picks: Justin Anderson and Victor Claver. 5th place team, Tenerife has 1 former 2nd round pick. That’s it.

Topic would be the best player on the floor by a mile in any ACB game. The best player on the best team in ACB is Mario Hezonja lol.

[AFM]

My focus is often on exceptional D...

PAUSE!!!!!!!!!

[nate33]

The way I see things, we have 2 future starters on the roster in Deni and Bilal, and we have two future rotation players in Vukcevic and Kispert.*

I'm hoping and expecting to land one of the elite forward/wings in next year's draft, which gives us 3 starting wings, but no starting guard and no starting center. So ideally, we land a starting center in this draft, or a starting guard. Sarr would be the best fit in that he fills a need and has the high upside (although admittedly, he may never get there). Beyond Sarr, I think our biggest need is guard capable of starting. And I think that guard needs to be able to be a #2 scoring option (to pair with our #1 option scorer from the 2025 draft).

So in that respect, somebody like Topic, Dillingham, Sheppard or McCain could conceivably work. They all have flaws at the moment, but all could conceivably develop into what we need.

*Poole might be a rotation player 6th man, but I doubt that will work out here. We definitely can't pay him close to his current salary when is contract is up, and it typically goes poorly when an organization tells a player he needs to take a big pay cut. So ultimately, I figure Poole will be traded before his contract is up or he'll walk when his contract expires.

[doclinkin]

The ABA is an underrated league, and again, you have to factor in the fact that Topic played on a developmental team full of 18/19/20/21 year olds. They have 2 players on the roster that are over the age of 22.

Right. So the G-League for Euroball. Minus NCAA talent. Now we have proper context. Glad to help clear that up. Job well done, Us.

[dckingsfan]

The way I see things, we have 2 future starters on the roster in Deni and Bilal, and we have two future rotation players in Vukcevic and Kispert.*

I'm hoping and expecting to land one of the elite forward/wings in next year's draft, which gives us 3 starting wings, but no starting guard and no starting center. So ideally, we land a starting center in this draft, or a starting guard. Sarr would be the best fit in that he fills a need and has the high upside (although admittedly, he may never get there). Beyond Sarr, I think our biggest need is guard capable of starting. And I think that guard needs to be able to be a #2 scoring option (to pair with our #1 option scorer from the 2025 draft).

So in that respect, somebody like Topic, Dillingham, Sheppard or McCain could conceivably work. They all have flaws at the moment, but all could conceivably develop into what we need.

*Poole might be a rotation player 6th man, but I doubt that will work out here. We definitely can't pay him close to his current salary when is contract is up, and it typically goes poorly when an organization tells a player he needs to take a big pay cut. So ultimately, I figure Poole will be traded before his contract is up or he'll walk when his contract expires.

I mostly agree with you here, especially in your conclusion. Just want to add a couple of points.

Whereas Deni has shown that he will be a starter, I don't think we have seen that from Bilal quite yet (arguable though).

Agreed on Poole and I think that goes for Kuz as well. I think we will end up trading both Kispert and Poole (but that is just my guess).

But to your point, ideally this year would be the year to grab a PG or C (that is where the draft is loaded and where we probably find the BPA). And I think that is why the discussions between Sarr and Topic are so interesting and why this board isn't seriously considering Risacher.

And the elephant in the room, where we end up after the numbers are drawn.

[NatP4]

The ABA is an underrated league, and again, you have to factor in the fact that Topic played on a developmental team full of 18/19/20/21 year olds. They have 2 players on the roster that are over the age of 22.

Right. So the G-League for Euroball. Minus NCAA talent. Now we have proper context. Glad to help clear that up. Job well done, Us.

Nope, that’s wrong again. KK Mega is a developmental club, that doesn’t apply to the rest of the teams.

[doclinkin]

:lol: Will there be a run on grabbing centers in this draft as every team tries to have their own twin towers like Minny? Yes Minny crushed w/o Rudy
, still…

Me I'd love to see what the Knicks do with Edey.

A good article in the Athletic talks about the different emphasis the Knicks and Thunder put on rebounding. OKC was only better than um, the Wizards, in their terrible offensive rebounding. They make up for it by forcing TOs and scoring efficiently.

The Knicks by contrast heavily emphasize offensive boardswork. Interestingly they prefer to kick the ball out to reset the offense and take an open three instead immediately put it back up. This is in part because while they rebound well their guys underneath are not the best at the quick putback. The paint is crowded at that point, someone is going to be open.

Edey however feasts on offensive putbacks. He earns points and FTs off of being the biggest guy and closest to the hoop. Keeps the ball elevated and can finish his hook with either hand on either side of the backboard even while being shoved and hacked. Under Thibs New York always has a traditional C on the floor and freely rotates the bigs at this position. Edey is a problem in the low post that will force opponents to counter with Bigs of their own if he gets a feeding frenzy of low-post attempts. NY is confident in their ability to defend the perimeter even with traditional C's under the boards. I expect they will dare opponents to go small, knowing they can go full monster at the other end.

Happy to see that Giant ball is being featured again, I'm curious to see this next iteration. I have a feeling Edey gets taken by Miami, but zero chance he falls past New York's two picks just ahead of us.

[doclinkin]

The ABA is an underrated league, and again, you have to factor in the fact that Topic played on a developmental team full of 18/19/20/21 year olds. They have 2 players on the roster that are over the age of 22.

Right. So the G-League for Euroball. Minus NCAA talent. Now we have proper context. Glad to help clear that up. Job well done, Us.

Nope, that’s wrong again. KK Mega is a developmental club, that doesn’t apply to the rest of the teams.

My bad, the now folded G-League Ignite. Even worse.

[nate33]

Whereas Deni has shown that he will be a starter, I don't think we have seen that from Bilal quite yet (arguable though).

Given his development so far and what we know about his work ethic, I think it's a pretty sure thing that Bilal will develop into at least a Jaden McDaniels tier 3&D wing who is excellent with the "D" part at at least passable with the "3" part. That's good enough to be a starter.

His ceiling is much higher, depending on how well he learns to shoot and how much off-the-dribble game he develops. I have no idea where that will pan out.

[DCZards]

The way I see things, we have 2 future starters on the roster in Deni and Bilal, and we have two future rotation players in Vukcevic and Kispert.*

I'm hoping and expecting to land one of the elite forward/wings in next year's draft, which gives us 3 starting wings, but no starting guard and no starting center. So ideally, we land a starting center in this draft, or a starting guard. Sarr would be the best fit in that he fills a need and has the high upside (although admittedly, he may never get there). Beyond Sarr, I think our biggest need is guard capable of starting. And I think that guard needs to be able to be a #2 scoring option (to pair with our #1 option scorer from the 2025 draft).

So in that respect, somebody like Topic, Dillingham, Sheppard or McCain could conceivably work. They all have flaws at the moment, but all could conceivably develop into what we need.

Dillingham would likely be my second pick (after Sarr) and I believe McCain is very underrated.

But I disagree with your approach of drafting in 2024 with 2025 in mind. I believe you should draft based on your current needs—and the BPA—and not on what you think/hope will happen a year from now.

[closg00]

:lol: Will there be a run on grabbing centers in this draft as every team tries to have their own twin towers like Minny? Yes Minny crushed w/o Rudy
, still…

Me I'd love to see what the Knicks do with Edey.

A good article in the Athletic talks about the different emphasis the Knicks and Thunder put on rebounding. OKC was only better than um, the Wizards, in their terrible offensive rebounding. They make up for it by forcing TOs and scoring efficiently.

The Knicks by contrast heavily emphasize offensive boardswork. Interestingly they prefer to kick the ball out to reset the offense and take an open three instead immediately put it back up. This is in part because while they rebound well their guys underneath are not the best at the quick putback. The paint is crowded at that point, someone is going to be open.

Edey however feasts on offensive putbacks. He earns points and FTs off of being the biggest guy and closest to the hoop. Keeps the ball elevated and can finish his hook with either hand on either side of the backboard even while being shoved and hacked. Under Thibs New York always has a traditional C on the floor and freely rotates the bigs at this position. Edey is a problem in the low post that will force opponents to counter with Bigs of their own if he gets a feeding frenzy of low-post attempts. NY is confident in their ability to defend the perimeter even with traditional C's under the boards. I expect they will dare opponents to go small, knowing they can go full monster at the other end.

Happy to see that Giant ball is being featured again, I'm curious to see this next iteration. I have a feeling Edey gets taken by Miami, but zero chance he falls past New York's two picks just ahead of us.

All teams must prepare for the Wemby era, I wonder how effective Edey will be in the post trying to score on him, some team is drooling over how they are going to use him...

[doclinkin]

All teams must prepare for the Wemby era, I wonder how effective Edey will be in the post trying to score on him, some team is drooling over how they are going to use him...

The way past Wemby is through him. Edey has 100 lbs on him, same height. He'll put him in the basket for 2 points and the foul. When Edey has been able to play against guys his own size, or guys who foul hard, he plays more physical. And plays better. At Purdue he had to be careful about fouls since his team fell apart when he was not on the floor. In the NBA, especially as a part time player, situational sub or counter-big specialist, he can play heavy. Use all six fouls if necessary.

Wemby will try to entice him to follow out deep on the floor, but he doesn't have to chase. Let the big guys shoot from outside, rebound the misses and start your own slow patient shot clock.

One interesting innovation on offense to keep a center in the game, Thibbs has been clearing room under the basket for dribble drive attacks by sending Hartenstein away from the paint, with one foot out of bounds on the baseline. He gets a running start to get the ball for the offensive board. Dennis Rodman used to rebound that way, step all the way out of bounds to get a better angle to watch the ball in flight, then get momentum to run through and over players to go get it. You just have to be quick to establish yourself inbounds before you can snatch it. With Zach Edey, one step is a mighty long distance.

[NatP4]

I think Pacome Dadiet is another great option at #26. Worth acquiring another 1st round pick to get him and Daron Holmes. Really think he should be a lottery pick in this draft. Zero reason why Salaun is a projected lottery pick but Dadiet is a mid 2nd round projection.

Doesn’t turn 19 years old until late July, played a full 50+ game season of pro ball/eurocup, went head to head with guys like Risacher. 15.1 points 5.1 rebounds 1.3 assists 1.3 steals 2.0 turnovers 59.3% TS. Has legit NBA wing size and athleticism.

Biggest knock is that he’s not much of a playmaker right now, has some tunnel vision, inconsistent defensively, but has tons of potential and great effort on that end. Big time eye test prospect:

Watch on YouTube

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Carping back & forth is unpleasant & unproductive... & who would know better than I, since I've been guilty of it many times.

One thing to say for sure: this is a fascinating draft! Have we ever been so unsure of who the #1 pick should be? Or will be?

This could end up being another draft like the one where the kid out of UNLV, Bennett, was drafted first overall. I don't recall anything else at this moment about that draft. EXCEPT THAT I hated the pick. Immediately.

I think there are many, many good players in this draft; but I'm very clueless as to who I would pick first.

Not yet.

Sent from my SM-A146U using RealGM mobile app

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Will there be a run on grabbing centers in this draft as every team tries to have their own twin towers like Minny? Yes Minny crushed w/o Rudy
, still…

It's a copycat league.

Phoenix apparently thought they were getting another iteration of the Splash Brothers when they acquired Bradley Beal. That 3-perimeter shooters model is working well for the Knicks.

Minnesota has changed the game. Their two big men work very well together. Cleveland is going to go a long way in the future with Mobley and Allen. Utah will enjoy similar success with Markaanen and Kessler.

Closg00, I think by position, many Cs will be selected for this draft.

Sent from my SM-A146U using RealGM mobile app

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The way I see things, we have 2 future starters on the roster in Deni and Bilal, and we have two future rotation players in Vukcevic and Kispert.*

I'm hoping and expecting to land one of the elite forward/wings in next year's draft, which gives us 3 starting wings, but no starting guard and no starting center. So ideally, we land a starting center in this draft, or a starting guard. Sarr would be the best fit in that he fills a need and has the high upside (although admittedly, he may never get there). Beyond Sarr, I think our biggest need is guard capable of starting. And I think that guard needs to be able to be a #2 scoring option (to pair with our #1 option scorer from the 2025 draft).

So in that respect, somebody like Topic, Dillingham, Sheppard or McCain could conceivably work. They all have flaws at the moment, but all could conceivably develop into what we need.

*Poole might be a rotation player 6th man, but I doubt that will work out here. We definitely can't pay him close to his current salary when is contract is up, and it typically goes poorly when an organization tells a player he needs to take a big pay cut. So ultimately, I figure Poole will be traded before his contract is up or he'll walk when his contract expires.

Whereas Deni has shown that he will be a starter, I don't think we have seen that from Bilal quite yet (arguable though).

Given his development so far and what we know about his work ethic, I think it's a pretty sure thing that Bilal will develop into at least a Jaden McDaniels tier 3&D wing who is excellent with the "D" part at at least passable with the "3" part. That's good enough to be a starter.

His ceiling is much higher, depending on how well he learns to shoot and how much off-the-dribble game he develops. I have no idea where that will pan out.

Bilal was the youngest person on an NBA roster (if a highlight footage announcer was factually correct ). For 19 years old seems to have great form on his corner three. He makes tremendous chase down blocks. He's very athletic.

I think Bilal is going to improve quite a bit over the next three or four years. He's definitely a solid building block.

Sent from my SM-A146U using RealGM mobile app

[gesa2]

Whereas Deni has shown that he will be a starter, I don't think we have seen that from Bilal quite yet (arguable though).

Given his development so far and what we know about his work ethic, I think it's a pretty sure thing that Bilal will develop into at least a Jaden McDaniels tier 3&D wing who is excellent with the "D" part at at least passable with the "3" part. That's good enough to be a starter.

His ceiling is much higher, depending on how well he learns to shoot and how much off-the-dribble game he develops. I have no idea where that will pan out.

McDaniels is a big part of the best defense in the league. If we get that from Bilal it’ll be a big win

[NatP4]

I still like the idea of picking Clingan if we drop to 6. You can build an elite defense around Coulibaly-Avdija-Clingan.

The narrative around the 2025 draft currently centers around the bigs (Bailey, Flagg, Maluach, Queen, Bidunga, Quaintance), but I actually think the two best players in the class could be Nolan Traore and Dylan Harper.

Still want to trade Kuzma for another mid/late lottery pick to get a guy like Pacome Dadiet who is going to continue to skyrocket up the board. Holmes at #26.

Start of 2025-2026:

Traore/Harper Butler
Kispert Davis
Coulibaly Dadiet
Avdija Holmes
Clingan

[payitforward]

CCJ -- Ken -- it's great to have you back!!!