madskillz8 wrote:cupcakesnake wrote:Chokic wrote:
Pretty spot on assessment. The holmgren vs banchero thread isn't going to age well.
He's spot on for calling him "more of a Tayshaun than Duncan"?
Yeah sure... he's Tayshaun... if Tayshaun was 7'1" barefoot, averaged 3 blocks per game, and could bang threes. Tayshaun except he's a ball handling center than can space and rim protect. What on earth does he have to do with Tayshaun Prince (a player that I was a huge fan of, for the record) ???
I don't think anyone was every saying Chet=Timmy. I think people were pointing our Chet is having an insane rookie season. Sure, you can be like: well what is the context for this rookie season, but that doesn't make it not count or not pop up when comparing historical rookie seasons. Having a great rookie season also doesn't guarantee that Chet will become Tim Duncan, a top 5 player of all-time.
Chet's ability to fit in next to high-end player and provide tons of value without needing the ball is one of the biggest parts of his value. If it was Paolo in OKC, we'd be trying to figure out how on earth to maximize Shai, Jalen, and Paolo at the same time, while the Thunder struggled to figure out rim/paint protection.
If you only measure player value by their ability to self-create, you miss the value of tons of players who bring real championship equity (that includes Duncan! Who's self creation was good but not great). Chet has a high likelihood of becoming a DPOY quality player on that end, while being able to space the floor, pass, and attack off the dribble on the other. Insanely valuable player type and I still have no idea what Tayshaun Prince has to do with any of this. Chet's rookie season is way above Tayshaun Prince's best season.
Come on, I never said that. I also said people are comparing Chet's rookie season to Tim Duncan's rookie season, not they are saying Chet=Timmy, lol.
I was definitely talking about the role - not physically or style-wise. Fills an important role on a contender, plug & play, but not an offensive threat who opponents try to stop. Differently from many other top picks who had more offensive responsibility in their very first NBA season.
And when someone says "he's more of a Tayshaun than Duncan", he is likely referring to a spectrum, instead of a direct comparison. I expect him to be an extremely impactful player with 3/4th option on offense and knows his role well. Yes, in a spectrum, it is more of a Tayshaun than Duncan for a contender team.
We are talking about a player who made 4 all-defense teams in his first 6 seasons who also averages 14+ points per game for a contender in a slow-paced low scoring era. Not some scrub.
I'm a huge Tayshaun fan. I'm aware of his abilities and that he's not a scrub.
But he was also never a defensive anchor, like Chet already is. Then role wise on offense (in his prime) Tayshaun was more of a tertiary creator that you needed to feed the ball to get value out of. Tayshaun was a meh shooter and an average cutter, but you could get some offense out of him if you let him operate out of the high post or handle the ball on the wing.
Prime Tayshaun was a 4th option on offense, and a wing stopper specialist who was the 3rd best defender on his team.
If you're saying that rookie Chet is closer to prime Tayshaun than prime Duncan, I can agree with that. I'm confused what your spectrum is. Rookie versions of Tayshaun, Chet, and Duncan? Chet is obviously way closer to Duncan. It kind of sounds like you're comparing rookie Chet to rookie Duncan and prime Tayshaun? I'm not trying to assume, I just don't know what you're saying.
Chet's is heavily involved in OKC's offense as a spacer, cutter/roller, and ball handler. Yes, he's the 3rd option without a big reps of on-ball primacy, but I think it's too simplistic a way of understanding basketball to think that role is only measured by on-ball reps. It's like thinking 2006 Ricky Davis had a bigger role than Kevin Garnett, or Chuck Person/Rik Smits had a bigger offensive role than Reggie Miller.
He's the 2nd or 3rd most valuable title on a contender... as a rookie. I think you're underrating what he's doing.