Sick of hearing people denigrate Gobert..(He's been great defensively)

[Astaluego]

As I said in another thread, I think Rudy is a double-edged sword, an elite role player, the main culprit of the number 1 defense, totally deserving of the DPOY and the Wolves' good seeding in the regular season...
but In the Playoff he is very exploitable, not even his fault, the evolution of the game (better shooters, huge space, rules, etc etc) the sample size is large enough, look for the excuse that you like the most...
That Jokic is unstoppable 1 vs 1 or how it happened to him in the JAZZ that he did not have enough perimeter defense to help him, or how the Mavs did with Maxi, taking him out of the paint with a small ball etc etc...
he is an incredible player to have, the problem is his maximum salary if he made half the money, you would just sit him in some fights and it wouldn't hurt as much...as for this series...?
Jokic did the same thing to AD and he would do it to anyone in history, we are talking about a top generational player... the difference is that AD (insert any star in the 5) would at least compensate for part of the bleeding in the offense and make Jokic...Gobert is very limited there...as I said the problem is his salary

[F Saunders]

I don’t think there’s ever been another acclaimed defender who’s been unplayable in multiple playoff series. If there are any examples I’m all ears. It’s giving big fat phony

Watch on YouTube

Pretty crazy how unplayable Rudy is, considering the Wolves have outscored the Nuggets this series when Rudy has been on the court.

Irregardless, he’s getting cooked on one end of the floor and allowing Jokic to hide on the other end.

In the last 3 games/losses:

Rudy has played a total of 102.5 minutes, and sat on the bench for 41.5 minutes.

In those 102.5 minutes with Rudy on the court, the Nuggets outscored the Wolves by 3.
In those 41.5 minutes with Rudy on the bench, the Nuggets outscored the Wolves by 47.

People get so fixated on Jokic having maybe the greatest quarter of his life, they are completely blinded to how impactful Rudy has actually been.

[greg4012]

Thus proving again that you complete ignore the importance of context in your analysis.

You're embarrassing yourself

A stat tells you people choose apples over oranges 99% of the time.

You conclude, people love apples!

I show you that the oranges are sitting in a tub of **** while the apples are sitting on a table.

You conclude, no, people just love apples!

That’s the type of thinking you’re doing when you ignore statistical context.


You’re a Heat fan. You think Adebayo should have the DPOYs Gobert does. Few others do. There’s some more context for you.

Do you not see the consistency in how you never tackle actual basketball analysis but only seek to deflect and distract with utilization of logical fallacies?

Your consistency is remarkable. Not impressive in the slightest. But remarkable.

Please show me how or where you showed that "the oranges are sitting in a tub of **** while the apples are sitting on a table"

I'd love to get clarity on this awful attempt at a metaphor

[dockingsched]

Pretty crazy how unplayable Rudy is, considering the Wolves have outscored the Nuggets this series when Rudy has been on the court.

Irregardless, he’s getting cooked on one end of the floor and allowing Jokic to hide on the other end.

In the last 3 games/losses:

Rudy has played a total of 102.5 minutes, and sat on the bench for 41.5 minutes.

In those 102.5 minutes with Rudy on the court, the Nuggets outscored the Wolves by 3.
In those 41.5 minutes with Rudy on the bench, the Nuggets outscored the Wolves by 47.

People get so fixated on Jokic having maybe the greatest quarter of his life, they are completely blinded to how impactful Rudy has actually been.

You have a breakdown of that for when Rudy and Jokic are both on the court? When Rudy is on/Jokic is off? Jokic on/Rudy off?

Without looking into it line by line, on the surface it seems like every stretch Jokic is off, Rudy and Ant are out trying to take advantage which would really make those +/- stats quite noisy, which is the problem of using +/- on a game by game basis.

[BadaBoom]

Pretty crazy how unplayable Rudy is, considering the Wolves have outscored the Nuggets this series when Rudy has been on the court.

Irregardless, he’s getting cooked on one end of the floor and allowing Jokic to hide on the other end.

In the last 3 games/losses:

Rudy has played a total of 102.5 minutes, and sat on the bench for 41.5 minutes.

In those 102.5 minutes with Rudy on the court, the Nuggets outscored the Wolves by 3.
In those 41.5 minutes with Rudy on the bench, the Nuggets outscored the Wolves by 47.

People get so fixated on Jokic having maybe the greatest quarter of his life, they are completely blinded to how impactful Rudy has actually been.

Before game 5 Jokic was 11/28 on direct defensive matchups against Gobert, that's crazy defensive numbers!!!

In game 5 he was 8/9 and scored 20 directly against him but I think most of the people trashing Gobert did not see the game because 70% of them were closely contested and Jokic was just on fire! Nobody can stop a player like that when he is on.
(i'll add that Gobert played 40min in game 5 and had the best differential of his team by a good margin for players that were 30min+ on the floor. Reid who was also only -2, played 19min but committed 4 fouls during that time. Yes that's also why Gobert is no trash defender but really a difference maker)

(source: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40152751/nba-playoffs-2024-wild-chess-match-nuggets-timberwolves )

[TorontoBarneys]

Overpaid to an absurd degree

[zero rings]

I don’t think there’s ever been another acclaimed defender who’s been unplayable in multiple playoff series. If there are any examples I’m all ears. It’s giving big fat phony

Watch on YouTube

Pretty crazy how unplayable Rudy is, considering the Wolves have outscored the Nuggets this series when Rudy has been on the court.

Irregardless, he’s getting cooked on one end of the floor and allowing Jokic to hide on the other end.

What is he supposed to do, block every shot Jokic attempts? He played him well and the ball just went in.

This is why great offensive players are always more valuable than great defensive players. You can play perfect defense and still get beat.

[levon]

One-way players get exposed in the playoffs.

[thinktank]

You're embarrassing yourself

A stat tells you people choose apples over oranges 99% of the time.

You conclude, people love apples!

I show you that the oranges are sitting in a tub of **** while the apples are sitting on a table.

You conclude, no, people just love apples!

That’s the type of thinking you’re doing when you ignore statistical context.


You’re a Heat fan. You think Adebayo should have the DPOYs Gobert does. Few others do. There’s some more context for you.

Do you not see the consistency in how you never tackle actual basketball analysis but only seek to deflect and distract with utilization of logical fallacies?

Your consistency is remarkable. Not impressive in the slightest. But remarkable.

Please show me how or where you showed that "the oranges are sitting in a tub of **** while the apples are sitting on a table"

I'd love to get clarity on this awful attempt at a metaphor

Greg, you’ve already shown your analytical hand:

Gobert is not going to beat any allegations in the 1st round of the playoffs. Get past the 2nd round for the first time in his career and the discussion can begin

Can’t even have a discussion until WCF.

Ridiculous.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I don’t think there’s ever been another acclaimed defender who’s been unplayable in multiple playoff series. If there are any examples I’m all ears. It’s giving big fat phony

Watch on YouTube

Pretty crazy how unplayable Rudy is, considering the Wolves have outscored the Nuggets this series when Rudy has been on the court.

Irregardless, he’s getting cooked on one end of the floor and allowing Jokic to hide on the other end.

In Game 5... Jokic was 8 - 9 fg (89%) when guarded by Gobert.

In games 1,3 and 4... Jokic was 11 - 28 fg (39%) when guarded by Gobert... including 4 - 13 fg in game 4.*

But the world we live in (especially online) prevents us from looking at the bigger picture, using context, considering anything that happened beyond the past 24 hours, et al.



* according to JJ Redick.

[greg4012]

A stat tells you people choose apples over oranges 99% of the time.

You conclude, people love apples!

I show you that the oranges are sitting in a tub of **** while the apples are sitting on a table.

You conclude, no, people just love apples!

That’s the type of thinking you’re doing when you ignore statistical context.


You’re a Heat fan. You think Adebayo should have the DPOYs Gobert does. Few others do. There’s some more context for you.

Do you not see the consistency in how you never tackle actual basketball analysis but only seek to deflect and distract with utilization of logical fallacies?

Your consistency is remarkable. Not impressive in the slightest. But remarkable.

Please show me how or where you showed that "the oranges are sitting in a tub of **** while the apples are sitting on a table"

I'd love to get clarity on this awful attempt at a metaphor

Greg, you’ve already shown your analytical hand:

Gobert is not going to beat any allegations in the 1st round of the playoffs. Get past the 2nd round for the first time in his career and the discussion can begin

Can’t even have a discussion until WCF.

Ridiculous.

Analytical hand? Ridiculous?

Once again ignoring all of the actual content and analysis and numbers provide. Consistently not speaking on Gobert's ability or refuting the claims that he's overrated as a man defender and gets exploited against contenders in playoff ball because he gives up advantage in space. Just aiming to characterize and shame the poster. This is so transparent and kinda sad.

Is all your basketball dialogue this shallow? Do you get enjoyment out of this?

[thinktank]

Do you not see the consistency in how you never tackle actual basketball analysis but only seek to deflect and distract with utilization of logical fallacies?

Your consistency is remarkable. Not impressive in the slightest. But remarkable.

Please show me how or where you showed that "the oranges are sitting in a tub of **** while the apples are sitting on a table"

I'd love to get clarity on this awful attempt at a metaphor

Greg, you’ve already shown your analytical hand:

Gobert is not going to beat any allegations in the 1st round of the playoffs. Get past the 2nd round for the first time in his career and the discussion can begin

Can’t even have a discussion until WCF.

Ridiculous.

Analytical hand? Ridiculous?

Once again ignoring all of the actual content and analysis and numbers provide. Consistently not speaking on Gobert's ability or refuting the claims that he's overrated as a man defender and gets exploited against contenders in playoff ball because he gives up advantage in space. Just aiming to characterize and shame the poster. This is so transparent and kinda sad.

Is all your basketball dialogue this shallow? Do you get enjoyment out of this?

Greg, I work with stats for a living.

That’s why I know the limit to their value.

CONTEXT MATTERS FIRST.

[greg4012]

Greg, you’ve already shown your analytical hand:



Can’t even have a discussion until WCF.

Ridiculous.

Analytical hand? Ridiculous?

Once again ignoring all of the actual content and analysis and numbers provide. Consistently not speaking on Gobert's ability or refuting the claims that he's overrated as a man defender and gets exploited against contenders in playoff ball because he gives up advantage in space. Just aiming to characterize and shame the poster. This is so transparent and kinda sad.

Is all your basketball dialogue this shallow? Do you get enjoyment out of this?

Greg, I work with stats for a living.

That’s why I know the limit to their value.

CONTEXT MATTERS FIRST.

Feel bad for whoever pays you.

Once again--all the info unrefuted. I wonder why.

[Woodsanity]

Why is Gobert being trashed? When D Rob got destroyed by Hakeem, it didn't make D Rob a bad defender....

[thinktank]

Analytical hand? Ridiculous?

Once again ignoring all of the actual content and analysis and numbers provide. Consistently not speaking on Gobert's ability or refuting the claims that he's overrated as a man defender and gets exploited against contenders in playoff ball because he gives up advantage in space. Just aiming to characterize and shame the poster. This is so transparent and kinda sad.

Is all your basketball dialogue this shallow? Do you get enjoyment out of this?

Greg, I work with stats for a living.

That’s why I know the limit to their value.

CONTEXT MATTERS FIRST.

Feel bad for whoever pays you.

Once again--all the info unrefuted. I wonder why.

Cool. 19 possessions against Joker where the Heat lost really deals the deal for me. Adebayo > Gobert.

[DimesandKnicks]

Pretty crazy how unplayable Rudy is, considering the Wolves have outscored the Nuggets this series when Rudy has been on the court.

Irregardless, he’s getting cooked on one end of the floor and allowing Jokic to hide on the other end.

What is he supposed to do, block every shot Jokic attempts? He played him well and the ball just went in.

This is why great offensive players are always more valuable than great defensive players. You can play perfect defense and still get beat.

It’s not just his defense it’s also is inability to make Jokic work on defense. Offensive players are always better than great defensive players but great defensive players have to be able to take something away from great offensive players or keep them to their RS greatness. Let Jokic get 40/50 points but you can’t let him involve the rest of his teammates as well.

[tsherkin]

It’s not just his defense it’s also is inability to make Jokic work on defense. Offensive players are always better than great defensive players but great defensive players have to be able to take something away from great offensive players or keep them to their RS greatness. Let Jokic get 40/50 points but you can’t let him involve the rest of his teammates as well.

And exactly how was he supposed to do that in that particular game? What should he have done differently? He was heavily contesting EVERYTHING, Jokic just drilled the shots anyway.

[bisme37]

Draymond was clowning Horford last night for being terrible whilst Horford was doing this.

Read on Twitter

It sucks that they've given Draymond this platform to advance his personal pettiness.

[nikster]

The other 2 don't ruin their teams offensive spacing though. It's been a tough series for Gobert.

It's not like Bam is great spacer. In the finals Denver was perfectly giving up Bam at the midrange. He scored a bunch but at 50TS%

Contributes a lot more on the offensive end than Gobert. Give Bam the offensive firepower of Ant and Towns around him and it wouldn't be close

Fair enough, won't argue against him being a better player (tho Miami had Jimmy and excellent spacing around him). But Bam had a poor offensive series and was killed by Jokic and wasn't clowned like this.

[cupcakesnake]

Gobert haters just need 1 bad moment or game to seize on to keep their narrative going and feel fine about that.

I'm not particularly a Gobert fan but he really won me over with his play this year. He's been excellent all regular season and playoffs. Jokic goes god-mode for 1 game and all the Gobert haters throw a garden party.

It's fine if you don't like the guy and enjoy rooting against him. I enjoy rooting against plenty of excellent basketball players. But if you think you have any real ground to stand on when you say that Gobert gets exposed in the playoffs, can't guard in space, can't guard man-to-man, doesn't have any offensive impact... I really don't know what to tell you at this point. We can't be watching the same basketball or reviewing the same stats.

Gobert has consistently done a better job against Jokic than Bam or AD over the past 2 full seasons and playoffs. Gobert is an excellent defender in space who is next to impossible to "exploit". Gobert is an unskilled offensive player but is able to provide value as a threat at the rim with his size, screening, and offensive rebounding. The Wolves have been +13 per 100 possessions with Rudy on the floor in these playoffs. Rudy hasn't been a negative in the playoffs since 2019.