Trades and Transactions Ideas Thread

[3toheadmelo]

donovan and brunson would work fine. donte is a worse defender than donovan or about the same and he's been taking 18 shots a game in this series against the pacers. that's a shot or two less than what donovan takes.

Donte only gets that many shots cause Julius isn't here. When Randle comes back, are we really going to expect him to take only 10 shots a game if we bring in Donovan Mitchell? Unless we trade Randle, I don't think we have enough shots (or minutes) for another star player, especially if we want our role players to stay in rhythm.

I'd like to run it back at full health and see what we got. In theory, trading Randle makes a lot of sense but in practice, its hard to replace his production at the PF position. I'd like people to think of the top 5 PF's and tell me who fits better than Randle that we can conceivably get.

donte got 12 shots a game in january with randle and brunson. that's a lot of shots. randle/brunson would just need to sacrifice some touches to give donovan some more.

im cool with running it back. i don't think it's necessary to trade for donovan but i would make that move just because i don't want to see brunson out there all alone again in the post season.

[Juco24]

donovan and brunson would work fine. donte is a worse defender than donovan or about the same and he's been taking 18 shots a game in this series against the pacers. that's a shot or two less than what donovan takes.

Donte only gets that many shots cause Julius isn't here. When Randle comes back, are we really going to expect him to take only 10 shots a game if we bring in Donovan Mitchell? Unless we trade Randle, I don't think we have enough shots (or minutes) for another star player, especially if we want our role players to stay in rhythm.

I'd like to run it back at full health and see what we got. In theory, trading Randle makes a lot of sense but in practice, its hard to replace his production at the PF position. I'd like people to think of the top 5 PF's and tell me who fits better than Randle that we can conceivably get.

donte got 12 shots a game in january with randle and brunson. that's a lot of shots. randle/brunson would just need to sacrifice some touches to give donovan some more.

im cool with running it back. i don't think it's necessary to trade for donovan but i would make that move just because i don't want to see brunson out there all alone again in the post season.

[TrueWarrior]

I gave you numbers before too. Where are you getting your numbers from?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2024.html

Basketball reference shows us with a 120 Offensive Rating and 113 Defensive rating per 100 possessions with Donte on the court. His defensive rating is the same as OG and Josh.

Also Donte clearly had among the best advanced stats on our team this season. EPM, BPM, VORP, WS, TS%, etc he is top 5 in all of them. His defensive RAPTOR was always positive when they tracked that and Bucks fans still rave about missing his defense more than anything.

Donte was also top 5 in deflections and top 15 in steals per game this year, while playing under 30 mpg. The dude is averaging a block per game in the playoffs too. He’s expending too much energy on offense now, but when guys return he can settle into more of a 3/D role again.

Anyway, think what you want. Just saying Donte is clearly not a bad defender and he’s going nowhere.

I hope we stay away from Mitchell. Let’s see if your boy Julius can be the 2nd guy we need. He was looking like it before he got hurt. The grass isnt always greener.

i'm getting them from here. they get their stats from nba.com
https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612752&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1628978

and you're not posting what those defensive rating numbers look like with donte OFF the court. so your numbers only tell half the story. please post them.

also these are donte's numbers in the playoffs
knicks defensive rating with donte on the court 126.13.
knicks defensive rating with donte off the court 101.41.

you can be in denial about his defense fam but me and others have pointed out his awful defense all year long. he simply sucks on that end. he gambles a lot on defense which is why he gets a bunch of deflections and steals. that doesn't mean he's a good defender.

if the knicks are standing pat, we should look to promote deuce as the starter over donte. has higher upside and plays on both ends.

So you’re ignoring all the other advanced stats I posted that clearly show Donte as a huge positive. BBall Reference also has different numbers than that.

The link you provided shows that Donte has had a great on/off, defensive, and net rating throughout his career. Look at his numbers on the Bucks (where he started on a championship team) and Warriors. I’ll grant you that his defensive rating was a little worse than usual this season, but still not awful like you’re pretending. Maybe he lost some energy for defense a bit with all the extra minutes and offensive load, but he still had a positive net rating, which is most important, because his offense was nice. He clearly has the speed, ability, and instincts to play D when he’s locked in. Again, watch game 6 against Maxey.

Basically Donte’s defense, rebounding, and assists took a slight hit this year while his scoring went way up. Same thing happens to lots of guys who take more responsibility on offense. I’m sure Donte will find a balance once more guys return, but he has done an admirable job filling in as a quasi 2nd option when he never scored over 10 ppg before he got here. He was supposed to basically be another Josh Hart who could shoot better. He is growing and still has more potential.

As for the playoffs, OG, Isaiah, Josh, and Precious have defensive ratings over 120 too. You gonna say they suck? It’s a small sample dude.

As for Deuce, your link says we were much better with him off the court in the season. Some of that is probably because he usually came in for Jalen, but we were neutral while he was on the court. I like him too, but he’s an undersized SG and not a PG at all.

So in summary we could upgrade our SG spot sure, but Donovan Mitchell isn’t the guy for me when taking fit, assets used, and future contract into account unless he transforms his game. Maybe he’s worth the risk and there wont be anyone else available, so I get the argument for him, but I’ll pass.

Bonus: your link, which Im having fun with now so thanks, shows that Obi had good on/off, net, and defensive ratings with us. Yet you say his defense sucked. Cmon bro which is it? Lol. I wonder who he came in for too.

[KnixinSix]

donovan and brunson would work fine. donte is a worse defender than donovan or about the same and he's been taking 18 shots a game in this series against the pacers. that's a shot or two less than what donovan takes.

This is it right here. Everytime Thibs plays even a little small ball this team seems to thrive too.

IHart or Mitch
Randle
OG
Spida
Brunson

Is still ok size wise considering the front court

[KnixinSix]

I'm not a big fan of pairing 2 small ball dominant guards with Randle.

On the defensive end it's a terrible grouping. A small poor defensive backcourt that will not only have to guard opposing backcourts but will also have to switch, rotate and close out on much bigger players where they will be completely overmatched many times combined with Randle and his highly inconsistent effort on the defense is a no go for me. OG and the bigs can't solve every defensive issue.

On the offensive end there is only one ball. I'm not sure if Brunson and Mitchell will work together well. Both of them are scoring guards that aren't always great at facilitating. They will take shots away from each other and the rest of the team specifically Randle.

I don't see Julius as a good #3 option with two guards that love to pound the ball. What exactly is Julius supposed to do without the ball in his hands for long periods of time? He is not a floor spacer, roller, cutter, movement, high energy guy or defender. Taking the ball out of his hand takes away the one place he actually impacts the game. Without the ball he is a huge negative unless he completely transforms his game.

The team took off after removing 2 ball dominant guys and replacing them with OG. I'm not looking to re-create a similar situation with 3 guys that love to handle the ball but don't contribute much outside of that.

One of Brunson or Mitchell will play the 1 all 48 minutes. Brunson and Mitchell only on the floor together 24 minutes. Mitchell plays 15 while Brunson sits at the 1, Brunson plays like 15 minutes at the 1 with someone else at the 2.

[thebuzzardman]

Just start Deuce full time and use Donte to strengthen the bench along with Hart.

Brunson/?
Deuce/Donte
OG/Hart
Randle/OG/Hart
iHart/Mitch

Injury depth until the trade deadline: Bogs, Mitch, Precious


Use the MLE or Bogs on a backup ball handler to Brunson in the offseason, possibly.
Explore getting a backup tall defensive wing to cover the 40% of the season OG will miss.

[Spree2Houston]

I think it has to be acknowledged there aren’t really any real perfect candidates for trades beyond Giannis. Any other available candidate has weaknesses. Even the default of running it back with Randle is risky.

I think the fundamental question is one of ceiling versus sustainability. I hate to say this, but the one guy who might bring us to real contention is Lebron James. KD behind that, Paul George too. Those guys have positional fit with Brunson, all around games, and they also are old as eff. No one knows how long they can stay at their level. KD has gotten rocked by Tatum in the playoffs already.

You have Mitchell too as an SG. He offers more longevity, might not cost Randle, but after I saw what McBride did last night, I think I feel strongly that we need that type of player next to Brunson, someone you can just throw at the star guards, set hard picks, hit threes at high volume with very low usage, and at a lower salary. I don’t think you can count on a forward to do that unless you’re willing to pay lots…OG Anunoby was expensive as eff and even then, he was not the right guy to guard Maxey. Then you allocate resources elsewhere so Brunson has help.

Ingram might be the middle option but he’s not the perfect option either. Still, he’s young enough to improve.

Gonna be an interesting offseason for NYK. Dray is right in that the Knicks do have some chance of getting on the treadmill. The positive side of that is that we have an opportunity to build a real contender. The good thing is that we have a smart FO and we’ve been able to get good role players through smart drafting, signings, trades and development.

[Deeeez Knicks]

I think it has to be acknowledged there aren’t really any real perfect candidates for trades beyond Giannis. Any other available candidate has weaknesses. Even the default of running it back with Randle is risky.

I think the fundamental question is one of ceiling versus sustainability. I hate to say this, but the one guy who might bring us to real contention is Lebron James. KD behind that, Paul George too. Those guys have positional fit with Brunson, all around games, and they also are old as eff. No one knows how long they can stay at their level. KD has gotten rocked by Tatum in the playoffs already.

You have Mitchell too as an SG. He offers more longevity, might not cost Randle, but after I saw what McBride did last night, I think I feel strongly that we need that type of player next to Brunson, someone you can just throw at the star guards, set hard picks, hit threes at high volume with very low usage, and at a lower salary. I don’t think you can count on a forward to do that unless you’re willing to pay lots…OG Anunoby was expensive as eff and even then, he was not the right guy to guard Maxey. Then you allocate resources elsewhere so Brunson has help.

Ingram might be the middle option but he’s not the perfect option either. Still, he’s young enough to improve.

Gonna be an interesting offseason for NYK. Dray is right in that the Knicks do have some chance of getting on the treadmill. The positive side of that is that we have an opportunity to build a real contender. The good thing is that we have a smart FO and we’ve been able to get good role players through smart drafting, signings, trades and development.

Bring him back to his family with Arch as the 15th man

[HopelessKnick]

Before the start of this season: "Is Brunson truly a first option on a title team? Or is he rather a 1b or good second option on a true title contender?"

After the Randle injury Brunson went on to average 33points/8assists on 47%/38%/85% through the final close to 40 games. The conversation was: "But this is the regular season---is he that dude during the playoffs or is he too short when playoff defenses gear up?"

Then he went on to get you 35points/8assists in 11 playoff games. I don't think you'll find any serious NBA fan/follower/analyst/team official/ex-player even having the slightest doubt about Brunson being a 1AAA first option on a title team. That's not even debatable anymore---in fact everyone is know wondering if there are even better first options in the league than Brunson. He makes the top 5 in any case. So IMO with this regular season run you could already see the Mitchell ship getting ready for departure but after this playoff run that ship really has sailed. It has sailed past the Atlantic ocean already.

Mitchell was always an iffy fit next to Brunson. But after Brunson proved to literally be the better player out of the two it doesn't even make any sense anymore IMO. This is Brunson's team---he is THAT guy. We ride and die with him. The rest will be a supporting cast, nothing more nothing less. And Julius now had 50+ games to see that Brunson is just better than him and the true alpha dog. I'm sure he has drawn the right conclusions and will look to fit in next season. And the Knicks will contend for the title---nothing more nothing less.

If there is any way to get a Mikal Bridges here without compromising our rotation---then hell yes. Otherwise, thanks but no thanks. Sorry for sounding so cocky guys, been the first time in 25+ years I am really feeling that way about the Knicks. Thanks to Brunson. He makes everyone a believer.

[HopelessKnick]

BTW I feel like the OG trade should have underlined the significance of FIT over NAME for all knick fans really. You bring in the right fits and the team's effectiveness goes through the roof. Mitchell is a great player, great guy, NY personality and all---but he is not the right fit.

[spree2kawhi]

I think it has to be acknowledged there aren’t really any real perfect candidates for trades beyond Giannis. Any other available candidate has weaknesses. Even the default of running it back with Randle is risky.

I think the fundamental question is one of ceiling versus sustainability. I hate to say this, but the one guy who might bring us to real contention is Lebron James. KD behind that, Paul George too. Those guys have positional fit with Brunson, all around games, and they also are old as eff. No one knows how long they can stay at their level. KD has gotten rocked by Tatum in the playoffs already.

You have Mitchell too as an SG. He offers more longevity, might not cost Randle, but after I saw what McBride did last night, I think I feel strongly that we need that type of player next to Brunson, someone you can just throw at the star guards, set hard picks, hit threes at high volume with very low usage, and at a lower salary. I don’t think you can count on a forward to do that unless you’re willing to pay lots…OG Anunoby was expensive as eff and even then, he was not the right guy to guard Maxey. Then you allocate resources elsewhere so Brunson has help.

Ingram might be the middle option but he’s not the perfect option either. Still, he’s young enough to improve.

Gonna be an interesting offseason for NYK. Dray is right in that the Knicks do have some chance of getting on the treadmill. The positive side of that is that we have an opportunity to build a real contender. The good thing is that we have a smart FO and we’ve been able to get good role players through smart drafting, signings, trades and development.

This guy is the answer. Imagine him as the third option and a defensive lineup à la Brunson, McBride, Bridges, OG, Hartenstein

[sol537]

I wonder if BRK would send us Mikal for Randle.... and then they unload some of their other assets for Spida and go with a Spida-Randle 1-2 combo... which could put them on Cleveland's level 4-7 seed in the East. Baby steps...

[HopelessKnick]

I wonder if BRK would send us Mikal for Randle.... and then they unload some of their other assets for Spida and go with a Spida-Randle 1-2 combo... which could put them on Cleveland's level 4-7 seed in the East. Baby steps...

You really want OG to be our full time PF? He is way too injury prone to absorb that type of contact night in and night out....

[sol537]

I wonder if BRK would send us Mikal for Randle.... and then they unload some of their other assets for Spida and go with a Spida-Randle 1-2 combo... which could put them on Cleveland's level 4-7 seed in the East. Baby steps...

You really want OG to be our full time PF? He is way too injury prone to absorb that type of contact night in and night out....

A calculated risk though he could move around a bit less than he would at PF. There aren’t many “banger” bruising PF’s any more… it’s all just stretch 4’s. Look around.

[ag3]

I wonder if BRK would send us Mikal for Randle.... and then they unload some of their other assets for Spida and go with a Spida-Randle 1-2 combo... which could put them on Cleveland's level 4-7 seed in the East. Baby steps...

Randle is much better than Bridges.

[HopelessKnick]

I wonder if BRK would send us Mikal for Randle.... and then they unload some of their other assets for Spida and go with a Spida-Randle 1-2 combo... which could put them on Cleveland's level 4-7 seed in the East. Baby steps...

You really want OG to be our full time PF? He is way too injury prone to absorb that type of contact night in and night out....

A calculated risk though he could move around a bit less than he would at PF. There aren’t many “banger” bruising PF’s any more… it’s all just stretch 4’s. Look around.

I get where you are coming from but I prefer the balance with Randle at PF and OG at the 3. With IHart and Mitch upfront it makes the frontline super physical and hard to deal with.

Keep in mind that after his difficult start, Randle was in all-out attack mode and super efficient, averaging 27points/9rebounds/5assists on 52%/33%/78% (through games 7-46). He switched back to CAA, he will get extended I believe.

[Spree2Houston]

I think it has to be acknowledged there aren’t really any real perfect candidates for trades beyond Giannis. Any other available candidate has weaknesses. Even the default of running it back with Randle is risky.

I think the fundamental question is one of ceiling versus sustainability. I hate to say this, but the one guy who might bring us to real contention is Lebron James. KD behind that, Paul George too. Those guys have positional fit with Brunson, all around games, and they also are old as eff. No one knows how long they can stay at their level. KD has gotten rocked by Tatum in the playoffs already.

You have Mitchell too as an SG. He offers more longevity, might not cost Randle, but after I saw what McBride did last night, I think I feel strongly that we need that type of player next to Brunson, someone you can just throw at the star guards, set hard picks, hit threes at high volume with very low usage, and at a lower salary. I don’t think you can count on a forward to do that unless you’re willing to pay lots…OG Anunoby was expensive as eff and even then, he was not the right guy to guard Maxey. Then you allocate resources elsewhere so Brunson has help.

Ingram might be the middle option but he’s not the perfect option either. Still, he’s young enough to improve.

Gonna be an interesting offseason for NYK. Dray is right in that the Knicks do have some chance of getting on the treadmill. The positive side of that is that we have an opportunity to build a real contender. The good thing is that we have a smart FO and we’ve been able to get good role players through smart drafting, signings, trades and development.

This guy is the answer. Imagine him as the third option and a defensive lineup à la Brunson, McBride, Bridges, OG, Hartenstein

I would think the scoring would look like this

Starters

Brunson(27)
Bridges(15)
Anunoby(15)
Randle(25)
Hartenstein(8)

Bench

McBride(8)
Divenceno(13)
Hart(10)
Mitch(6)

If you add this up it would be 127 points per night. The highest scoring team in the league (Indiana) averaged 123 lol we probably wouldn’t average that much but you get what I’m saying. We would be a great offensive team

[sol537]

You really want OG to be our full time PF? He is way too injury prone to absorb that type of contact night in and night out....

A calculated risk though he could move around a bit less than he would at PF. There aren’t many “banger” bruising PF’s any more… it’s all just stretch 4’s. Look around.

I get where you are coming from but I prefer the balance with Randle at PF and OG at the 3. With IHart and Mitch upfront it makes the frontline super physical and hard to deal with.

Keep in mind that after his difficult start, Randle was in all-out attack mode and super efficient, averaging 27points/9rebounds/5assists on 52%/33%/78% (through games 7-46). He switched back to CAA, he will get extended I believe.

The most likely result of this off season is to run it back (as you suggest) healthy and possibly make a deadline trade using Bogs and picks to add a depth piece.

[HarthorneWingo]

Just start Deuce full time and use Donte to strengthen the bench along with Hart.

Brunson/?
Deuce/Donte
OG/Hart
Randle/OG/Hart
iHart/Mitch

Injury depth until the trade deadline: Bogs, Mitch, Precious


Use the MLE or Bogs on a backup ball handler to Brunson in the offseason, possibly.
Explore getting a backup tall defensive wing to cover the 40% of the season OG will miss.

You know Thibs won’t do that.

[spree2kawhi]

I wonder if BRK would send us Mikal for Randle.... and then they unload some of their other assets for Spida and go with a Spida-Randle 1-2 combo... which could put them on Cleveland's level 4-7 seed in the East. Baby steps...

You really want OG to be our full time PF? He is way too injury prone to absorb that type of contact night in and night out....

We could always make a second trade … what’s Naz Reid gonna cost? I’d prefer KAT for Randle, but in that scenario … Minnesota has too much salary and enough rotation bigs to make a trade.