2024 Draft Thread - Part II

[SUPERBALLMAN]

My ideal draft I'm looking at something like this.

Wizards trade down with SA picks 2 + 51 for picks 4 + 35 + 48.

At 4 Wizards take Stephon Castle

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At 26 Wizards take Cam Christie

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At 35 Wizards take Izan Amansa

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At 48 Wizards take Adem Bona

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Wizards Roster

C - Vukcevic / Bona
PF- Avdija / Almansa
SF- Coulibaly / Kispert
SG- Castle / Christie
PG- Poole / Butler

Drafting 3 guys that cannot shoot? That's not a sustainable roster when it's hard to get away with more than one non-shooter one the floor at the same time.

Well it is a tank job....

I like that group as a foundation. Vuks, Corey, Christie are shooters, Poole, Butler... Hoping Deni & Bilal continue to improve, as well as Castle hopefully developing. Plus you still have all your trade assets Kuz, Tyus, Bagley, Shamet, Holmes, Baldwin to trade.

But this is the foundation I would set, a roster of youth, versatility, team-oriented players, defense, to which we then add the centerpiece Cooper Flagg type franchise player to a ready made foundation. Give this foundation a year together to develop individually with NBA playing experience and develop chemistry together as a team with Keefe. Then you drop in the centerpiece in next years draft.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I think I have a new favorite player in this draft.

https://nbadraftroom.com/dillon-jones/

https://hoopshype.com/lists/dillon-jones-nba-draft-scouting-report-and-intel/


This is an extremely intelligent guy. He scores, rebounds, and defends well. He's efficient and focused. Dillon Jones can guard 2,3, and 4. From what I've seen on YouTube so far, he can initiate offense like a PG.

I'm totally impressed. A lot of players come to my mind. Underrated at draft time. Paul Millsap. Kenneth Faried. Carlos Boozer. Jimmy Butler, Josh Hart

doclinkin, talk me off hype mountain. Anyone else? Thoughts?
.

[payitforward]

Yes you missed someone. The player who out-performed his pick position more than anyone on your list--Joker. But you're forgiven.

Big whiff!! Not the only one either. Really have to put Gobert on that list!

Plenty of others as well -- but not to such an extreme degree.

Only a mea culpa from pif could happen at such early hours. can someone screenshot this?????

I've been in New Orleans the last few days for my grandson's graduation from Tulane, so it was actually 11pm not midnight when I wrote my "mea culpa," as you call it.

Still...

[payitforward]

I think I have a new favorite player in this draft.

https://nbadraftroom.com/dillon-jones/

https://hoopshype.com/lists/dillon-jones-nba-draft-scouting-report-and-intel/


This is an extremely intelligent guy. He scores, rebounds, and defends well. He's efficient and focused. Dillon Jones can guard 2,3, and 4. From what I've seen on YouTube so far, he can initiate offense like a PG.

I'm totally impressed. A lot of players come to my mind. Underrated at draft time. Paul Millsap. Kenneth Faried. Carlos Boozer. Jimmy Butler, Josh Hart

doclinkin, talk me off hype mountain. Anyone else? Thoughts?
.

I like him. But he has't put up numbers like the guys you mention. Def. a good call in the 50s, Y& he might be there/
(on a plane)

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Here's something worth watching:

Recent Top-5 Draff Busts and why

https://youtu.be/wNPnFEcZoGI?si=Oy3QO_wp86djZmIu

James Wiseman
Marvin Bagley
Markelle Fultz
Josh Jackson
Kris Dunn
Dragan Bender
Jahlil Okafor
Mario Hezonja

[The Consiglieri]

^^^You can't really compare his numbers to college players. Most of the players in the LNB Elite league are in their mid-to-late 20's and 30's. Rissacher (like Bilal) were playing against players that were much older than himself. He wasn't good, but tbh neither was Bilal.

Anyway, this synopsis of him from nbadraft.net pretty much summarizes why I think he's on top of the Wizards' draft board:

Overall: Zaccharie Risacher is a player with a 3-and-D wing potential with great size, in an era where players with his skill set are more valuable than ever … His ability to knock down open shots and move well without the ball, while at the same time he has shown versatility as a defender makes all this hype reasonable … At the same time, it’s obvious that he is a work in progress … His ball handling needs work for him to be able to play as a wing in the NBA, while he also has to bulk up to be able to sustain the physicality of the League … But his skill set is translatable and his potential ceiling is too high to be ignored

Listening to the Bleave Podcast guys they made the very valid argument analogous to why the NFL doesn't draft TE's and RB's early anymore, you've got to be cost effective with FA, and Wings cost infinitely more and are rarely available in trades compared to other positions, so having strong wings on a roster gives you cheap cost controlled talent at the most in demand and cost prohibitive assets around, if you hit. Of course that hit part is the crux, but if guys like Bilal and Risacher hit, you've nailed down talent to a position there's always going to be cost prohibitive demand for, whereas guys like Clingan, generally speaking, are exceptionally cheap in trade and FA, which is one of the many reasons he doesn't make a lot of sense. Of course a floor hit with Clingan is better than a bust, I have little doubt they're measuring all these things, but I think they're swinging for ceiling which means these upside guys with really low floors like Risacher are probably the targets rather than upper floor options like Clingan, but again, I'm just speculating.

And of course in terms of prospect eval, as you note in the post above, Risacher is 1000% projection, the raw #'s aren't there (though there are reasons) and figuring out if they aren't there because of a talent issue or because of a league and PT and development horizon issue is gonna be a huge part of the debate over the next 5 weeks.

[The Consiglieri]

The more I analyze it, the more I prefer Zach Edey to Donovan Clingan. I don't think either is full time 30+ min a game C but in 20-24 minutes a night, I can see Edey efficiently wrecking havoc against backup Cs across the league, he's just so skilled ... enough so that he can possibly get away with being a middlin defender as long as the effort is there.

I keep coming back to the fact Clingan cannot shoot fts (so suggesting he'll develop a 3 is a real longshot), he didn't play heavy minutes at UConn and got cooked by Edey in the NCAA tourney.

Clingan feels like a terrible reach in the top 3. Edey even late lottery seems like a significantly better value.

I reserve the right to be ceaselessly made fun of if I'm wrong, but I think the chances we take Clingan are like .01%. I just cannot see it, at all, in any universe. Just no chance. A floor pick, at a position that is cheap as hell in trade and FA to address, limited ceiling, turns 21 his rookie year, competent with maybe some more upside, but really a fit/floor/need pick when we are 3-5 years away just sounds like insanity to me, the exact opposite of what a team with little talent whatsoever and no depth should do at the top of a draft when they are potentially a half decade away. So yeah, I can't see it, at all, in any universe, so under the old wizards, I imagine they'd do it, but these guys? I cannot see it, at all.

[gesa2]

I agree with you Consiglieri. A question, given that last year out front office came in very close to draft day - will Dawkins et al play it super close to the vest like OKC/Presti does or are they up for some smoke signals and rumors? At 2 it’d be great if someone behind us could fall in love with a player and be nervous enough for us to get some assets in a trade down?
I bring this up after hearing about Memphis’ need for a Center and the debate over Clingan. The Spurs for 4 and 8 is the dream but that seems unlikely

[The Consiglieri]

The more I analyze it, the more I prefer Zach Edey to Donovan Clingan. I don't think either is full time 30+ min a game C but in 20-24 minutes a night, I can see Edey efficiently wrecking havoc against backup Cs across the league, he's just so skilled ... enough so that he can possibly get away with being a middlin defender as long as the effort is there.

I keep coming back to the fact Clingan cannot shoot fts (so suggesting he'll develop a 3 is a real longshot), he didn't play heavy minutes at UConn and got cooked by Edey in the NCAA tourney.

Clingan feels like a terrible reach in the top 3. Edey even late lottery seems like a significantly better value.

Cooked is a stretch. Edey scored 16 in the last 10 minutes when the game was already over. Clingan wasn't even on him for a lot of those points.

Prior to that Edey's efficiency wasn't good. After his hot start he struggled. Meanwhile on the other end.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Those are just from the first half. I could have made several more but I just got tired of it.

I remember watching Blake Griffin 'defend' at Oklahoma. Literally did not move on many occasions or give a 2nd effort. Why? Coaches made it clear to him is availability was more important than challenging every shot. Some kids take it to the extreme but Edey's job was to stay on the floor no matter what. In the NBA, of course his offensive role will be streamlined and he'll be expected to challenge every shot. He seems smart enough to adjust based on what I've seen.

Also note I'm not suggesting Edey in the top 3 or 5. I'm just looking at the collective skillsets of these draftable Cs and trying to figure out why people like one of the least skilled bigs of the group (Clingan) so damn much! Give me Holmes at 26 before Clingan in the top 5 (or even 15).

It's also just small sample size bs and vividness bias. I wouldn't take either of them, who cares they aren't moving the needle at all in terms of whether we have a team capable of 50 wins for the first time in 50 years in the next 5 years at all. But if you want to look at how Edey did in meaningful games using counting stats:

Vs #11 Gonzaga: 25 and 14 and 3
Vs #7 Tennessee: 23 and 10 and 1
Vs #4 Marquette: 28 and 15 and 2
Vs #1 Arizona: 22 and 9 and 1
Vs #6 Illinois: 10 and 15 and 1
Vs #12 Wisconsin: 18 and 13 and 3
Vs #12 Illinois again: 28 and 10 and 2
NCAA:
Vs #15 Gonzaga in Sweet 16: 27 and 14 and 0
Vs #5 Tennessee in Elite 8: 40 and 16 and 1
Vs NC State in the Final Four: 20 and 12 and 2
VS UCONN in the Final: 37 and 10 and 2

He had 53, 35 and 6 in the opening 2 round of the tourrney.

I don't want Edey, at all, but I mean come on. These are the games he played against ranked teams this past year. And he literally showed out in all of them except his shooting maybe against Illinois at home and he made up for that with his rebounding. It's lazy counting stats analysis, but for a team that were notorious choking losers in the NCAA that nobody anywhere believed in, they made their first run ever with him as the face of the team just making bucket after bucket, scoring 20 in his worst games, and 30+ in 3 of 6 games, double digit rebounds in all...I don't want him, but why Clingan is seen as way more valuable by miles? I don't get it. I don't think either will ever be elite and special at the next level but I can't see for the life of me why Clingan is worth a top 5 pick and Edey is in the early to mid 20's at all. Oh and btw, Edey carried about 50,000x more pressure while carrying that team to the Final. UCONN can do this w/or without Clingan, all Purdue ever did before this was choke and embarrass themselves, including with Edey just the previous season.

Needless to say, I ignore clingan entirely with the 2, if Edey's there at 26, seems unlikely, I guess you think about it, I still wouldn't but at least there's an argument. I can't see the Clingan thing at all. Granted I'm indulging narrative and counting talk analysis here which is generally lazy and I own that. But Center is not a position I'm taking top 10 ever unless its a Wemby level mega talent, not some floor bet. Leave those selections to round 2 and late round 1 or trades or FA.

[The Consiglieri]

The more I analyze it, the more I prefer Zach Edey to Donovan Clingan. I don't think either is full time 30+ min a game C but in 20-24 minutes a night, I can see Edey efficiently wrecking havoc against backup Cs across the league, he's just so skilled ... enough so that he can possibly get away with being a middlin defender as long as the effort is there.

I keep coming back to the fact Clingan cannot shoot fts (so suggesting he'll develop a 3 is a real longshot), he didn't play heavy minutes at UConn and got cooked by Edey in the NCAA tourney.

Clingan feels like a terrible reach in the top 3. Edey even late lottery seems like a significantly better value.

Cooked is a stretch. Edey scored 16 in the last 10 minutes when the game was already over. Clingan wasn't even on him for a lot of those points.

Yeah, IIRC, Edey posted Clingan with success a couple of times in the first 5 minutes, but Clingan seemed to figure him out after that and Edey really didn't score on him any more. Edey's points came when Clingan was out of the game.

I'm not saying that means we should draft Clingan at #2 or anything. I'm just saying that the narrative that Edey toasted Clingan has been overstated (not just by Dat2U).

I dont really think he figured him out. I think UCONN as a whole are just ridiculous which is how they won back to back titles and this was small sample size, vividness bias at work. Edey did what he did against everybody all year, I'm not taking a granular, small shot of the 2nd portion of the first half of a chunk of the third and assuming Clingan's genius killed Edey. I'm thinking Edey and Purdue ran into a buzz saw of a mega talented, executing team that has curb stomped everybody for two years, and the most likely scenario is Edey started forcing things to try to keep them in the game and started falling apart in the process, it happens a lot when you have teams carried by a player, more than well built individual teams like Uconn filled with talented players. I could be wrong, but I just think Clingan and Edey are both special college basketball players that probably aren't going to be special later, and I dont think the individual game is meaningful. People allow title game performances to weight way too much analysis, Edey has dozens of games against elite teams to evaluate him against, Clingan too, for good and for bad. Im skeptical of the figured him out narrative. I also think the most likely scenario is neither move the needle much at the next level. Hopefully they can find a role and have a reasonable set of careers. Beyond that, Im definitely a skeptic, but as college guys, both proved it, and I dont think the title game matters much from an individual anything basis.

[tontoz]

Cooked is a stretch. Edey scored 16 in the last 10 minutes when the game was already over. Clingan wasn't even on him for a lot of those points.

Yeah, IIRC, Edey posted Clingan with success a couple of times in the first 5 minutes, but Clingan seemed to figure him out after that and Edey really didn't score on him any more. Edey's points came when Clingan was out of the game.

I'm not saying that means we should draft Clingan at #2 or anything. I'm just saying that the narrative that Edey toasted Clingan has been overstated (not just by Dat2U).

I dont really think he figured him out. I think UCONN as a whole are just ridiculous which is how they won back to back titles and this was small sample size, vividness bias at work. Edey did what he did against everybody all year, I'm not taking a granular, small shot of the 2nd portion of the first half of a chunk of the third and assuming Clingan's genius killed Edey. I'm thinking Edey and Purdue ran into a buzz saw of a mega talented, executing team that has curb stomped everybody for two years, and the most likely scenario is Edey started forcing things to try to keep them in the game and started falling apart in the process, it happens a lot when you have teams carried by a player, more than well built individual teams like Uconn filled with talented players. I could be wrong, but I just think Clingan and Edey are both special college basketball players that probably aren't going to be special later, and I dont think the individual game is meaningful. People allow title game performances to weight way too much analysis, Edey has dozens of games against elite teams to evaluate him against, Clingan too, for good and for bad. Im skeptical of the figured him out narrative. I also think the most likely scenario is neither move the needle much at the next level. Hopefully they can find a role and have a reasonable set of careers. Beyond that, Im definitely a skeptic, but as college guys, both proved it, and I dont think the title game matters much from an individual anything basis.

I agree Edey and Clingan did what the did all year. The center is the last line of defense therefore defense means more at that position than any other. I think that is the source of your confusion.

One guy proved to be elite at protecting the paint while the other guy was a spectator watching guys making layups without even making a token contest.

[machu46]

I think I have a new favorite player in this draft.

https://nbadraftroom.com/dillon-jones/

https://hoopshype.com/lists/dillon-jones-nba-draft-scouting-report-and-intel/


This is an extremely intelligent guy. He scores, rebounds, and defends well. He's efficient and focused. Dillon Jones can guard 2,3, and 4. From what I've seen on YouTube so far, he can initiate offense like a PG.

I'm totally impressed. A lot of players come to my mind. Underrated at draft time. Paul Millsap. Kenneth Faried. Carlos Boozer. Jimmy Butler, Josh Hart

doclinkin, talk me off hype mountain. Anyone else? Thoughts?
.

He’s one of the most difficult prospects for me to figure out. A lot of Bucks fans are interested in him at 23 or 33. I tend to think guys like him who are uber productive but are built like squares instead of athletic monsters tend to be underrated. Grant Williams and Desmond Bane come to mind for those reasons, and I think Grant Williams is a decent comparison for Jones. Jones’ athleticism is very underwhelming; he’s slow and simply doesn’t elevate well at all. I badly wish we could have seen him against better competition in college. But it’s a really intriguing profile in a draft that doesn’t have a ton of talent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Consiglieri]

Yeah, IIRC, Edey posted Clingan with success a couple of times in the first 5 minutes, but Clingan seemed to figure him out after that and Edey really didn't score on him any more. Edey's points came when Clingan was out of the game.

I'm not saying that means we should draft Clingan at #2 or anything. I'm just saying that the narrative that Edey toasted Clingan has been overstated (not just by Dat2U).

I dont really think he figured him out. I think UCONN as a whole are just ridiculous which is how they won back to back titles and this was small sample size, vividness bias at work. Edey did what he did against everybody all year, I'm not taking a granular, small shot of the 2nd portion of the first half of a chunk of the third and assuming Clingan's genius killed Edey. I'm thinking Edey and Purdue ran into a buzz saw of a mega talented, executing team that has curb stomped everybody for two years, and the most likely scenario is Edey started forcing things to try to keep them in the game and started falling apart in the process, it happens a lot when you have teams carried by a player, more than well built individual teams like Uconn filled with talented players. I could be wrong, but I just think Clingan and Edey are both special college basketball players that probably aren't going to be special later, and I dont think the individual game is meaningful. People allow title game performances to weight way too much analysis, Edey has dozens of games against elite teams to evaluate him against, Clingan too, for good and for bad. Im skeptical of the figured him out narrative. I also think the most likely scenario is neither move the needle much at the next level. Hopefully they can find a role and have a reasonable set of careers. Beyond that, Im definitely a skeptic, but as college guys, both proved it, and I dont think the title game matters much from an individual anything basis.

I agree Edey and Clingan did what the did all year. The center is the last line of defense therefore defense means more at that position than any other. I think that is the source of your confusion.

One guy proved to be elite at protecting the paint while the other guy was a spectator watching guys making layups without even making a token contest.

You might consider what and why Purdue and UConn asked different things of their centers? Its pretty clear what Purdue wanted: Boards and Points. His block #'s in terms of counting stats are comically ridiculous for a guy w/his size. But I also think Purdue and UCONN wanted and needed distinctly different things from their centers. Its pretty clear Edey was the center piece of everything they did on offense. Not clear remotely that Clingan was for UConn. Not saying Edey has the ability to be a competent or elite defender, I think he sucks on the defensive end, but I think neither of them are special defenders period. It's just Purdue needed Edey to expend his energy grabbing board and scoring buckets period. And it worked. Not sure why they'd want their slow, not terribly athletic board/point machine Center expending huge amounts of energy on the defensive end to begin with. UCONN was a complete team of which Clingan was a piece, Purdue was a classic example of a particular player centered team, carrying them, with collaborative players around said player.

Again, not saying Edey adds much defensively beyond length, but I don't think Clingan's gonna matter much in the NBA either as a defensive weapon. If Clingan can reliably hit the 3 as rumored though, that might change things up a bit. I think no matter what, Edey's future is at best clouded, but I think we have to evaluate them as college players within their team context, and they were clearly asked to do vastly different things.

[tontoz]

Fwiw Clingan's measurements and athletic testing at the combine were very similar to Gobert, aside from being heavier.

I watched UConn several times and Clingan routinely covered a lot of ground to block/contest shots.

Edey was a senior. If his coach was telling him not to even make a token contest when guys are making layups then I think it is pretty doubtful that he is any good at it.

Contesting shots without fouling is a skill. Assuming that Edey will suddenly start doing that in the pros after 4 years of college is a big reach.

[NatP4]

Nolan Traore put up 25 points 4 rebounds 7 assists on 18 shots in the French league playoffs today. 4 made 3s.

That’s the 2025 top pick. When does a 17 year old ever do this?

Read on Twitter

[SUPERBALLMAN]

I think I have a new favorite player in this draft.

https://nbadraftroom.com/dillon-jones/

https://hoopshype.com/lists/dillon-jones-nba-draft-scouting-report-and-intel/


This is an extremely intelligent guy. He scores, rebounds, and defends well. He's efficient and focused. Dillon Jones can guard 2,3, and 4. From what I've seen on YouTube so far, he can initiate offense like a PG.

I'm totally impressed. A lot of players come to my mind. Underrated at draft time. Paul Millsap. Kenneth Faried. Carlos Boozer. Jimmy Butler, Josh Hart

doclinkin, talk me off hype mountain. Anyone else? Thoughts?
.

I like him. But he has't put up numbers like the guys you mention. Def. a good call in the 50s, Y& he might be there/
(on a plane)

Yeah Ive looked at him quite a bit, and I like him. He's definitely my type of player, he's got a diverse skillset, and he plays a physical brand of basketball. He's a bit older and there are others I like higher than him, but I do like him, He's worth considering at 51.

[closg00]

Clint Capela is on the trading block making Sarr a lock to go to ATL, trade or no trade.

[Frichuela]

Clint Capela is on the trading block making Sarr a lock to go to ATL, trade or no trade.

Looks that way…although maybe Risacher continues to deliver strong performances and ATL change their mind. Their top brass was in France watching…

[machu46]

Clint Capela is on the trading block making Sarr a lock to go to ATL, trade or no trade.

Sarr might be the pick, but Capela's been on the block for at least a year now. Don't think the two things are related at all.

[The Consiglieri]

BIG time game 7 for Haliburton .